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XFilesGeek
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15 Apr 2014, 2:43 pm

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"Women in the US worry themselves sick about appearance issues that 99% of men don't even notice. The nastiest figure-bashing is in hollywood gossip magazines that are published by women and staffed by women." They're also read almost exclusively by women


In the Air Force, I attended an employment workshop.

The woman who was running it warned us ladies that female interviewers were the absolute worst when it cam to judging other women on appearance, or whether our shoes matched our purses.

Like I said elsewhere, I'm pretty ugly as far as female pulchritude goes, but I've always managed to make a living for myself.


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0_equals_true
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15 Apr 2014, 5:57 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
You only brought up a single, assembly-centered industry. I worked with Bosch, Seagate, Nikon, Zeiss, Applied Materials, Okamoto, Mitsui, GE, 3M, Lockheed and others, and the people that I worked with were mostly men. You prove our point. Your sense of agriculture is way off. The only dumb thing here is that you ask me to prove things to your satisfaction when you haven't held feminist arguments to the same standard.

Prove what point? Your frustration towards, declining industry has nothing to do with women regardless of the gender mix, because women are not responsible for the labour drain abroad. You have misplaced resentment.

Which feminist group are you asking me to critique? I make no bones about criticizing any group I don't agree with. I don't have any allegiances.

Also I have not heard any feminist arguments, or evidence of conspiracy from women's groups to do with industry moving abroad, it is something much more to do with the competitiveness of the labour markets in those countries, the cost of labour, and lower standard of living.

I was actually asking you for better examples.

NobodyKnows wrote:
I've given you and Hopper plenty of chances to show how the feminist arguments are really correct. Here's just one, from my first post to this thread: "If women believe that they were forced into domestic roles by men acting capriciously, then they need to show how gender integration could have been achieved in the 1800s or earlier." I got no takers when I posted that. Half of the feminist case is unsupported if they can't carry that one. You want me to prove stuff? Eat your own soup.


It sounds a bit like a strawman. Which arguments? The basic principle of fairness?

On the other hand: Things like land ownership, voting, issues of domestic/sexual violence, whether or not they could have tackled earlier, doesn't mean they shouldn't have been. There is no doubt we are better off for progress.

If you are talking about feminists who only castigate men in general for problems, well I would suggest this not an effective strategy for change. They have to win over men, and many do effectively.

Btw I actually degree with the notion, that female subjugation was purely at the hands of men, it was also enforced by women too. It was just that in order to achieve change it was men that were the gatekeepers. Nowadays things a bit more complex, it really depends what the issue is.

If some feminist group gave me pretty much the equivalent of your argument, I wouldn't really give them much credence, it doesn't deserve it.

The biggest problem I'm having with your view is rather then focusing a clear men issues, I get the impression you relate any general socioeconomic problems to women or feminism.

I have a pretty low opinion of anyone man or women who only see themselves as victims, and do little to change their situation.



Geekonychus
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16 Apr 2014, 1:51 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
I have a pretty low opinion of anyone man or women who only see themselves as victims, and do little to change their situation.

........and that's Men's Rights "Activism" in a nutshell. The feminist movement has made gains through actual work and organizations that give support to their issues.

If the majority of men's rights "activism" was put towards those issues that MRAs claim they care about (male circumcision, custody laws, prison rape, the draft, etc) rather than towards harrassing feminists and denouncing the gains of women, they might actually see support outside of Reddit. Most of the men's groups making any progress on these issues are the one's who work alongside human's rights organizations (including feminist ones) and don't associate with the reactionary rhetoric of the MRA movement.

As it stands now, their arguments and tactics are reprehensible to most people

and/or long-winded and nigh incomprehnsible (like the one's in this thread.)



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16 Apr 2014, 9:14 pm

How am I playing a victim card?

When women complained that men didn't help out enough around the house, I stepped up to the plate and learned how to cook and bake. My dad is the one who taught me how to cook, since my working mom couldn't make matzo ball soup from a box to save her life. He has a tougher job than she does, too.

The guy who gave me my starter cookie recipe is an unkempt gun-totting redneck machinist. How does that fit your feminist stereotypes?

I also learned how to sew. I learned how to take care of a three year old. I learned how to change his diapers. That's in addition to all of the male skills that I still had to learn, which very few girls tackle.

If you have to stoop that low, it just shows how weak your position is.



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16 Apr 2014, 11:01 pm

currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


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16 Apr 2014, 11:10 pm

sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


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sephardic-male
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16 Apr 2014, 11:19 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


so a post of a pervert justify postings calling for my murder and enslavement?








[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcTG2yFcBE[/youtube]


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16 Apr 2014, 11:25 pm

sephardic-male wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


so a post of a pervert justify postings calling for my murder and enslavement?








[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcTG2yFcBE[/youtube]


#killallsephardic_male? Didn't see that. :P


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Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
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-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


AspieOtaku
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17 Apr 2014, 12:02 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


so a post of a pervert justify postings calling for my murder and enslavement?








[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcTG2yFcBE[/youtube]


#killallsephardic_male? Didn't see that. :P
Fixed the encoding wont work anymore with the s in the http every time ya put the url take the s off the https for it to work.


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heavenlyabyss
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17 Apr 2014, 12:46 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


so a post of a pervert justify postings calling for my murder and enslavement?








[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcTG2yFcBE[/youtube]


#killallsephardic_male? Didn't see that. :P
Fixed the encoding wont work anymore with the s in the http every time ya put the url take the s off the https for it to work.


Here's my problem with all this though. I get that you guys are trying to get some sort of argument about hypocrisy going but are any of you actually offended by any of this? I am male and I don't find it offensive. I see it as hyperbole and I'm able to laugh at it. I'm not fearing for my life nor are my feelings hurt.

Honestly, are any of you truly offended by this.



AspieOtaku
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17 Apr 2014, 12:52 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
currently on twitter feminists are using the #killallmen hashtag advocating, murdering, genocide and enslavement of men. how comes feminists aren't protesting against that.


Like this one, you mean https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/statu ... 64/photo/1 ?


so a post of a pervert justify postings calling for my murder and enslavement?








[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcTG2yFcBE[/youtube]


#killallsephardic_male? Didn't see that. :P
Fixed the encoding wont work anymore with the s in the http every time ya put the url take the s off the https for it to work.


Here's my problem with all this though. I get that you guys are trying to get some sort of argument about hypocrisy going but are any of you actually offended by any of this? I am male and I don't find it offensive. I see it as hyperbole and I'm able to laugh at it. I'm not fearing for my life nor are my feelings hurt.

Honestly, are any of you truly offended by this.
This might [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tQSOlF9ZZM[/youtube]


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heavenlyabyss
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17 Apr 2014, 1:17 am

Yes, that was offensive, AspieOtaku.

Did a quick search. Seems like a radical fringe group. Pretty sickening actually.

Edit: Seems like it may be a parody or satire or some sort of outlandish statement. I still find it rather sickening though even if it is meant to be a parody.



0_equals_true
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17 Apr 2014, 2:56 am

The extreme feminist groups, advocating misandry, especially female supremacy, violent action, sabotage groups, or any group that has the equivalent attitude to MRA, I have a very low opinion of, and frankly so should everyone.

Most of those groups went out in in the 90s, at least the main organized ones, there was a problem with them in the 80s and I think this set back progress of Women rights. A lot of their most serious effects were actually on women an their families, as they advocating breaking up families and joining of communes, in some case they didn't see their children. There was also an element of pushing on women in these groups, one sexuality and confusing this with being feminist.

However this really isn't women liberation. Most likely it is reaction to something in their life, and they turn against all men. There is no excuses for it though.

Any group that think that becuase A is sometimes B, then X is always caused by A, they need basic critical thinking help.

Any group that focuses on semantics, rather the main issues facing women I don't agree with their strategy. I also object to those that wish to sensor parody or satire, on the basis that it may contain sexist content.

Personally the #killallmen has tag is bellow the belt, becuase it is not clear satire/parody, and it equivalent to MRA. The Society of Cutting up Men video, has a pretext, which was a the woman who shot Andy Warhol, who wrote a rambling manifesto of the same name, she had some serious mental issues, most likely paranoid delusions. That is satire, but I can understand if people might be confused but it. It is not actually advocating cutting up men, it is bringing to attention the stupidity of such views. It is a controversial video, however.



0_equals_true
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17 Apr 2014, 3:14 am

NobodyKnows wrote:
How am I playing a victim card?


You are not playing a card, you are living the victim mentality, you are moaning about all sort of random stuff which isn't any more related to women than it is to men. You are focused on tit for tat. You resent progress for women in general, becuase of either really or imagined specific issues that men have. Rather than working toward an egalitarian attitude for everyone inline with mainstream rights groups, you see one movement as a direct threat to you becuase frankly you resent their progress. However you are more likely to have success if you actual campaign on men issues, rather than equating campaigning on men's issue with needing to push back on feminism.

Ironically you need to man up.

NobodyKnows wrote:
When women complained that men didn't help out enough around the house, I stepped up to the plate and learned how to cook and bake. My dad is the one who taught me how to cook, since my working mom couldn't make matzo ball soup from a box to save her life. He has a tougher job than she does, too.

The guy who gave me my starter cookie recipe is an unkempt gun-totting redneck machinist. How does that fit your feminist stereotypes?


It suits it just fine why wouldn't it? Basically what you are saying, that in order to be a women or feminist, you have to be perfect. Or men don't have to stick to stereotypes but women do.

NobodyKnows wrote:
I also learned how to sew. I learned how to take care of a three year old. I learned how to change his diapers. That's in addition to all of the male skills that I still had to learn, which very few girls tackle.

If you have to stoop that low, it just shows how weak your position is.


Touche. You think that changing diaper, or learning to sew make you special? Please. More and more women are doing 'male' skills. If you have such a low opinion of women that only servers to undermine your position.



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17 Apr 2014, 3:28 am

NobodyKnows wrote:
That's in addition to all of the male skills that I still had to learn, which very few girls tackle.


just for the sake of curiosity: what exactly are "male skills"? --do you mean things like standing up to take a piss, is that a male skill? if so then you're right, very few girls tackle that one. :wink:



0_equals_true
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17 Apr 2014, 4:07 am

starvingartist you can with FUDs.