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ASPartOfMe
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14 Jul 2014, 9:18 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Smythley wrote:
For people who have been diagnosed later in life it is probably even worse because not having a diagnosis for so long would've meant they have been forced into adopting neurotypical ways of communicating, thus suppressing their Aspie traits, which would certainly screw me up if I were in this presumed position 8O

It certainly screwed me up. When I was a kid, the autism spectrum wasn't widely known about and I wasn't diagnosed 'til 38 years old. I went from being told that there was nothing different about me and getting no support to being recognized as disabled. And it's been a weird journey.
I'd be lying if I said it doesn't irk me when I see all the recognition and supports that are available to children now. Not that I begrudge them the help, I just wonder how different things would have been for me had these been available when I was a child. I imagine my depression, anxiety and self loathing would be less.
Trying desperately to pass as neurotypical and not knowing what was going on with me for so long has broken my spirit. I think it's terrible when people try to push autistics to behave in a "normal" way. Passing and masking are destructive to the soul. It's like being told that you are intrinsically bad and that you have to hide it.
Society had better brace itself because there are a lot of us and with numbers comes strength. I hope one day the natural behaviours of autistic people will be as accepted and that we will no longer have to suffer attempts to modifty us.


Yeah it certainly did screw me up. We call it "Autistic burnout" and it fried my brain. I was living minute to minute, the past and the future took to much energy and were to frightening to think about. I still have a lot of trouble distinguishing between when I'm using a neurotypical skill I have added to my aspie-autistic self or I am just faking myself yet again. After doing it for decades it's just hard to tell the difference.


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Awiddershinlife
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15 Jul 2014, 9:23 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I think in a lot of ways society can hold people on the spectrum back from their full potential, and some aspects even contribute to co-morbid issues like depression and anxiety we develop.


Only if you believe their lies.

I grew up preIDEA and NCLB. I was simply diagnosed with "she'll never amount to anything". I didn't care as long as they left me alone. But I wasn't disableized either.


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15 Jul 2014, 9:56 pm

Awiddershinlife wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think in a lot of ways society can hold people on the spectrum back from their full potential, and some aspects even contribute to co-morbid issues like depression and anxiety we develop.


Only if you believe their lies.

I grew up preIDEA and NCLB. I was simply diagnosed with "she'll never amount to anything". I didn't care as long as they left me alone. But I wasn't disableized either.


I am not so sure about that, it was when I realized I had been lied to...and realized I had a warped view on history, how things in this country actually are and a lack of awareness at how much corruption there is, that I realized just how much this society limits people in general.

I got told I wouldn't amount to much, I got bullied and ostracized on a regular basis at school....and no I don't really believe I am entirely worthless, or that I've never accomplished anything or done anything worth while, but all that crap is still stuck in my head and greatly contributed to anxiety and depression I still suffer from....unfortunately my particular combination of disorders has disabled me and I know external factors pertaining to society have contributed. In psychology I learned people function better in general when in a supportive environment, well this society is hardly anything like that....it fails to support people who struggle to function and also limits people who aren't limited by any disorders/disabilities by turning them into consumer drones, who care more about what color a celebrities under garments are than whats actually going on around them.

I don't belive societies lies, but that hasn't gotten rid of the existing limitations this system has created.


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Awiddershinlife
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15 Jul 2014, 10:01 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I am not so sure about that, it was when I realized I had been lied to...and realized I had a warped view on history, how things in this country actually are and a lack of awareness at how much corruption there is, that I realized just how much this society limits people in general.

I got told I wouldn't amount to much, I got bullied and ostracized on a regular basis at school....and no I don't really believe I am entirely worthless, or that I've never accomplished anything or done anything worth while, but all that crap is still stuck in my head and greatly contributed to anxiety and depression I still suffer from....unfortunately my particular combination of disorders has disabled me and I know external factors pertaining to society have contributed. In psychology I learned people function better in general when in a supportive environment, well this society is hardly anything like that....it fails to support people who struggle to function and also limits people who aren't limited by any disorders/disabilities by turning them into consumer drones, who care more about what color a celebrities under garments are than whats actually going on around them.

I don't belive societies lies, but that hasn't gotten rid of the existing limitations this system has created.


That's why I stay apart from society.


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16 Jul 2014, 12:05 am

Awiddershinlife wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

I am not so sure about that, it was when I realized I had been lied to...and realized I had a warped view on history, how things in this country actually are and a lack of awareness at how much corruption there is, that I realized just how much this society limits people in general.

I got told I wouldn't amount to much, I got bullied and ostracized on a regular basis at school....and no I don't really believe I am entirely worthless, or that I've never accomplished anything or done anything worth while, but all that crap is still stuck in my head and greatly contributed to anxiety and depression I still suffer from....unfortunately my particular combination of disorders has disabled me and I know external factors pertaining to society have contributed. In psychology I learned people function better in general when in a supportive environment, well this society is hardly anything like that....it fails to support people who struggle to function and also limits people who aren't limited by any disorders/disabilities by turning them into consumer drones, who care more about what color a celebrities under garments are than whats actually going on around them.

I don't belive societies lies, but that hasn't gotten rid of the existing limitations this system has created.


That's why I stay apart from society.


I do my best to do that, though it still effects me....sort of hard to entirely avoid it, but most people I actually talk to are aware of all the BS to and so certainly not people who strive to be a part of it, I certainly don't either.


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mr_bigmouth_502
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16 Jul 2014, 1:42 am

Truth be told, I don't think I have a lot of traits that would make me employable. I'm lazy, I'm practically nocturnal, I don't like dealing with people, I don't like dealing with sanitation or handling anything gross, and the last time I had a job, I spent nearly all of my time watching the clock.



Awiddershinlife
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16 Jul 2014, 5:56 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Truth be told, I don't think I have a lot of traits that would make me employable. I'm lazy, I'm practically nocturnal, I don't like dealing with people, I don't like dealing with sanitation or handling anything gross, and the last time I had a job, I spent nearly all of my time watching the clock.


That's me off the clock - LOL!

Being self-supporting gives me some freedom and I actually do value my career a lot - I like it.


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the-comander
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24 Jul 2014, 6:51 pm

Laddo wrote:
I've been thinking about this a lot recently. A lot of people with ASD can be very focused, highly intelligent and persistent. These traits are ideal for being successful. A lot of people on this very forum seem to have a lot of drive, and may make posts about their passion and how they'd like to turn it into a career. And yet we rarely hear of aspies having massive success. I'm curious as to why this is.

I think it's largely down to how we're perceived by society. People may acknowledge our intelligence, our determination etc, but they don't admire it as they would admire the same traits in an NT person. It's like there's this automatic barrier that prevents most people from seeing that we are in fact people, just like them. We just face different challenges to them. For example, despite most people I know acknowledging that I'm pretty damn intelligent, they continue to act as if I need help with everything, that I can't do anything too complicated etc etc. These are also people who know either know very little about Asperger's or even people that don't even know I have it. Any difference is treated with a kind of patronising disdain (a "I'm normal, you're not, my opinion therefore matters more than yours" kind of thing), which leads to us not being given opportunities for success just because of those differences. I feel that if society were actually more open and accepting of autism, and if people weren't so painfully ignorant of the condition, they might start giving us more opportunities to succeed instead of subconsciously shooting us down at every attempt.

What are your thoughts?

defiantly, id say thats also true of many religous and ethnic minorities as well. i honestly don't think society sees Muslims as humans or it just sees them as inherently evil because they don't go to the beach in a bikini. i don't think people see a lot of immigrants from mexico as human either. i think that if anything we by and large grow up in very well off backgrounds and are overly intelligent yet don't get hired in the same way or have to hide who we really are from the world. i think were viewed as inhuman or uncaring i think by virtue of being who we are most of the us media views us as inherently not cool or hip and inherently weird and unlikable and we are generally seen as something that should be sectioned off from the rest of society.



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24 Jul 2014, 10:31 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Smythley wrote:
For people who have been diagnosed later in life it is probably even worse because not having a diagnosis for so long would've meant they have been forced into adopting neurotypical ways of communicating, thus suppressing their Aspie traits, which would certainly screw me up if I were in this presumed position 8O


It certainly screwed me up. When I was a kid, the autism spectrum wasn't widely known about and I wasn't diagnosed 'til 38 years old. I went from being told that there was nothing different about me and getting no support to being recognized as disabled. And it's been a weird journey.


It was a blessing for me. I grew up in the 50s. People left me alone and I just got to be myself. The moms in my neighborhood let us all run wild all day long until the street lamps came on). I climbed trees, caught crawdads, explored the woods. I always had a dog with me. We played pick up games of kick the can & baseball. I read, read, read.

In school, I was scrappy and could take out any bully (even though I was tiny). There was no special ed although I did have an SLP. But they did have "cracks" one could fall into. I shut down and no one cared, but I was never "disabled".

If anyone tried to force me to be anything at all, it was a waste of time because I totally missed it.


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brackets
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25 Jul 2014, 1:30 pm

While plenty of autistic people do succeed in their careers, I think a lot of us who don't succeed aren't at fault ourselves. Society isn't set up for us to work, really. For one thing, to get most jobs, you have to do an interview. What kind of people are bad at social interaction, talking about themselves, and the kind of minor deceit that job interviews encourage? Autistic people. Then, if you get the job, there are more parameters that don't work for us -- the social atmosphere of work, doing customer service, dealing with stress, following verbal instructions, fluorescent lights...

And of course, there's no real support for invisible disabilities/mental health issues. You can't go home if you have a shutdown. You can't take days off because you can't bear to talk to anyone. There's no one to help you organize your tasks, the way you might get in school (if you're lucky).

Like, I'm quite intelligent. I could do a lot of different things, but because of the places my impairments are (memory, executive functioning), I can't do them without help. But in the adult world, no one wants to help you. It's stupid and we need to overhaul a lot of systems that are in place so everyone has a fair shot.



the-comander
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25 Jul 2014, 7:44 pm

Smythley wrote:
There are alot of attempts to "normalise" people on the spectrum, meaning classes teaching them to adopt social techniques which probably will have repercussions in the long run for people with Aspergers because of the tendency to overly enthuse about things that we have learned and the danger of going overboard with normative social techniques that are suggested to us.

In regards to limitations, someone who has been diagnosed with Aspergers from a more privileged family is more likely to be supported by their family and provided with opportunities to follow their skills than someone form a working class family. Usually due to having the finances to help their child pursue an interest/career they actually want to do rather than a job that is not suited to them due to the difficulties they have as an Aspie. There is still a lack of understanding and a lack of a support network for Aspies whose families lack the finances to support their child in an given interest.

For people who have been diagnosed later in life it is probably even worse because not having a diagnosis for so long would've meant they have been forced into adopting neurotypical ways of communicating, thus suppressing their Aspie traits, which would certainly screw me up if I were in this presumed position 8O

so are you agenst teaching kids math as well? are you agenst giving people without legs a f*****g wheelchair? personally i feel like that kind of thing is why I'm now going to be able to get a job when i grow up. i mean i guess this is great for you and all but if your parents had access to that kinda support and they didn't give it to you what that says to me at least is they cared more about making a statement then they did your future. i think that frankly its on some level a social construct, also i think its on some level a social construct and its kind of like telling someone from africa there not black because they don't speak in street slang. i think that they probably don't sound autistic because they never identified as having autism, no one "forced" them to do anything. personally I'm fine being normal and attractive and potentially having a job and a love life. maybe your rastafarian parents are to busy protesting nam to get you any other meds but ja merry jane but i sure as hell am glad that mine weren't.



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25 Jul 2014, 7:48 pm

brackets wrote:
While plenty of autistic people do succeed in their careers, I think a lot of us who don't succeed aren't at fault ourselves. Society isn't set up for us to work, really. For one thing, to get most jobs, you have to do an interview. What kind of people are bad at social interaction, talking about themselves, and the kind of minor deceit that job interviews encourage? Autistic people. Then, if you get the job, there are more parameters that don't work for us -- the social atmosphere of work, doing customer service, dealing with stress, following verbal instructions, fluorescent lights...

And of course, there's no real support for invisible disabilities/mental health issues. You can't go home if you have a shutdown. You can't take days off because you can't bear to talk to anyone. There's no one to help you organize your tasks, the way you might get in school (if you're lucky).

Like, I'm quite intelligent. I could do a lot of different things, but because of the places my impairments are (memory, executive functioning), I can't do them without help. But in the adult world, no one wants to help you. It's stupid and we need to overhaul a lot of systems that are in place so everyone has a fair shot.

well then you need to work on things rather then making excuses and sitting on your ass and eating chips. those are all fairly minor things, I'm sure you can fix them if you put your mind to it. honestly this sounds more like being mildly ditzy then it does like a crippling disability. i think if you put your mind to it you could get a job. you start playing a lot of puzzle games like Tetris and stuff a lot and you could probably fix the whole executive functioning bit that easy. you should start doing sedoku and stuff as well. start reading longer books and memorizing stuff from wikipedia. there are a lot of ways you could handle these things. just try harder and make things work. frankly there are some pretty simple physical labour jobs that probably wouldn't even require that much memory anyway, i think if you put your mid to it you can make it all work out, like i said you seem to think your in a wheelchair or something but this stuff is ll abstract and chemical and experiences, its not physical in the same way and it can be changed if you put your mind to it and its not like being mentally ret*d where somethings seriously defective. you can change your life and YOU CAN make things work. just know that i believe in you and that I'm sure people a lot closer then i am believe in you which is really what matters most. you can get a job.



Last edited by the-comander on 25 Jul 2014, 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ann2011
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25 Jul 2014, 7:58 pm

the-comander wrote:
Smythley wrote:
There are alot of attempts to "normalise" people on the spectrum, meaning classes teaching them to adopt social techniques which probably will have repercussions in the long run for people with Aspergers because of the tendency to overly enthuse about things that we have learned and the danger of going overboard with normative social techniques that are suggested to us.

In regards to limitations, someone who has been diagnosed with Aspergers from a more privileged family is more likely to be supported by their family and provided with opportunities to follow their skills than someone form a working class family. Usually due to having the finances to help their child pursue an interest/career they actually want to do rather than a job that is not suited to them due to the difficulties they have as an Aspie. There is still a lack of understanding and a lack of a support network for Aspies whose families lack the finances to support their child in an given interest.

For people who have been diagnosed later in life it is probably even worse because not having a diagnosis for so long would've meant they have been forced into adopting neurotypical ways of communicating, thus suppressing their Aspie traits, which would certainly screw me up if I were in this presumed position 8O

so are you agenst teaching kids math as well? are you agenst giving people without legs a f*****g wheelchair? personally i feel like that kind of thing is why I'm now going to be able to get a job when i grow up. i mean i guess this is great for you and all but if your parents had access to that kinda support and they didn't give it to you what that says to me at least is they cared more about making a statement then they did your future.

The supports and medications available now were not available when I was a kid in the '70s. There was no choice for my parents to make, there was nothing available either way.

Quote:
i think that frankly its on some level a social construct, also i think its on some level a social construct and its kind of like telling someone from africa there not black because they don't speak in street slang. i think that they probably don't sound autistic because they never identified as having autism, no one "forced" them to do anything. personally I'm fine being normal and attractive and potentially having a job and a love life. maybe your rastafarian parents are to busy protesting nam to get you any other meds but ja merry jane but i sure as hell am glad that mine weren't.

Do you feel that someone is telling you that you are not autistic? I don't understand.



brackets
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25 Jul 2014, 8:04 pm

the-comander wrote:
brackets wrote:
While plenty of autistic people do succeed in their careers, I think a lot of us who don't succeed aren't at fault ourselves. Society isn't set up for us to work, really. For one thing, to get most jobs, you have to do an interview. What kind of people are bad at social interaction, talking about themselves, and the kind of minor deceit that job interviews encourage? Autistic people. Then, if you get the job, there are more parameters that don't work for us -- the social atmosphere of work, doing customer service, dealing with stress, following verbal instructions, fluorescent lights...

And of course, there's no real support for invisible disabilities/mental health issues. You can't go home if you have a shutdown. You can't take days off because you can't bear to talk to anyone. There's no one to help you organize your tasks, the way you might get in school (if you're lucky).

Like, I'm quite intelligent. I could do a lot of different things, but because of the places my impairments are (memory, executive functioning), I can't do them without help. But in the adult world, no one wants to help you. It's stupid and we need to overhaul a lot of systems that are in place so everyone has a fair shot.

well then you need to work on things rather then making excuses and sitting on your ass and eating chips. those are all fairly minor things, I'm sure you can fix them if you put your mind to it. honestly this sounds more like being mildly ditzy then it does like a crippling disability. i think if you put your mind to it you could get a job. you start playing a lot of puzzle games like Tetris and stuff a lot and you could probably fix the whole executive functioning bit that easy. you should start doing sedoku and stuff as well. start reading longer books and memorizing stuff from wikipedia. there are a lot of ways you could handle these things. just try harder and make things work. frankly there are some pretty simple physical labour jobs that probably wouldn't even require that much memory anyway, i think if you put your mid to it you can make it all work out, like i said you seem to think your in a wheelchair or something but this stuff is ll abstract and chemical and experiences, its not physical in the same way and it can be changed if you put your mind to it.

HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

While I'd be the first to admit that on top of my autism and stuff I am "mildly ditzy", trust me, I can't just up and fix myself with Tetris. If I could fix my brain with logic puzzles and Wikipedia I'd be flippin' Bill Gates by now.



the-comander
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25 Jul 2014, 8:46 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
the-comander wrote:
Smythley wrote:
There are alot of attempts to "normalise" people on the spectrum, meaning classes teaching them to adopt social techniques which probably will have repercussions in the long run for people with Aspergers because of the tendency to overly enthuse about things that we have learned and the danger of going overboard with normative social techniques that are suggested to us.

In regards to limitations, someone who has been diagnosed with Aspergers from a more privileged family is more likely to be supported by their family and provided with opportunities to follow their skills than someone form a working class family. Usually due to having the finances to help their child pursue an interest/career they actually want to do rather than a job that is not suited to them due to the difficulties they have as an Aspie. There is still a lack of understanding and a lack of a support network for Aspies whose families lack the finances to support their child in an given interest.

For people who have been diagnosed later in life it is probably even worse because not having a diagnosis for so long would've meant they have been forced into adopting neurotypical ways of communicating, thus suppressing their Aspie traits, which would certainly screw me up if I were in this presumed position 8O

so are you agenst teaching kids math as well? are you agenst giving people without legs a f*****g wheelchair? personally i feel like that kind of thing is why I'm now going to be able to get a job when i grow up. i mean i guess this is great for you and all but if your parents had access to that kinda support and they didn't give it to you what that says to me at least is they cared more about making a statement then they did your future.

The supports and medications available now were not available when I was a kid in the '70s. There was no choice for my parents to make, there was nothing available either way.

Quote:
i think that frankly its on some level a social construct, also i think its on some level a social construct and its kind of like telling someone from africa there not black because they don't speak in street slang. i think that they probably don't sound autistic because they never identified as having autism, no one "forced" them to do anything. personally I'm fine being normal and attractive and potentially having a job and a love life. maybe your rastafarian parents are to busy protesting nam to get you any other meds but ja merry jane but i sure as hell am glad that mine weren't.

Do you feel that someone is telling you that you are not autistic? I don't understand.

first of all it was the 70s: id say every medication you could ever want was right in front of you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaqQhdt1qqk
:twisted: 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :twisted:
second of all i honestly feel like i have to be here in a way but thats kinda besides the point.



Ann2011
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25 Jul 2014, 8:49 pm

the-comander wrote:
... but this stuff is ll abstract and chemical and experiences, its not physical in the same way and it can be changed if you put your mind to it and its not like being mentally ret*d where somethings seriously defective. you can change your life and YOU CAN make things work. just know that i believe in you and that I'm sure people a lot closer then i am believe in you which is really what matters most. you can get a job.

I find this to be offensive. "ret*d" was a term used before they had proper diagnostic criteria. It is now a meaningless and only used as an insult. But what really bothers me about your post is your claim that chemicals are not physical. For heaven's sake. We're physically made up of all kinds of chemicals and tinkering with them is a universe of opportunity (for good and bad.)
You cannot think yourself out of being autistic. I've tried, you can't. Controlling your thoughts can only take you so far.