Why is love and dating extremely courtship and strategic-bas

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Outrider
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13 Aug 2014, 6:49 am

Perhaps it is limited to only my personal experiences, but it really seems to me that, generally, love and dating is very courtship and strategic-based.

The beginning of a romantic relationship focuses mainly only on an unwritten game based on one party impressing the other and both parties engaging sweet gestures until a high point is reached. Once this point is reached, one person asks the other out on a date.

Forget about actually getting to know someone as a friend and on a personal level, building a connection and realizing you both have chemistry.

Love and dating is instead based on a tedious, repetitive little choosy-impressy game based on
so-called "smoothness" and "confidence"...

Why do we as human beings use these ideals?

People often close off their options to those they are friends with, believing it just "wouldn't work out" if they increased their relationship towards each other.

They are open however to strangers willing to engage in these tedious little games (known as "courtship" and "flirting") to somehow conclude if the person is worthy of being known on a personal level or not.

Basically, dating strangers/barely known people is better because it's mysterious. Dating a friend is hard because the relationship is established between the two of you.

People would rather stay in their comfort zones in regards to love and relationships...



hurtloam
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13 Aug 2014, 7:15 am

I don't know about this. I think you've over-analysed it. Friends don't "court" each other because one doesn't fancy the other and there's no point making it into something more. Saying "I don't want to ruin the friendship," is usually code for "I don't fancy you." That's it. It's not because they are chicken, it's because they are not really attracted to the other person, or if they are attracted to them it's because they know that they could have a future together, i.e. one wants kids the other doesn't, one is gorgeous, but is annoyingly moody and you know you couldn't live with them no matter how much you love their eyes.

It's not true that friends don't end up together. My brother and sister-in-law were friends for a few years before they started dating. The key was that they were both attracted to each other and both wanted more than friendship.

People only date those whom they are attracted to. They go out on a date to have coffee to talk and flirt and see if there is chemistry and if they enjoy their time with that person then they will meet up again and this keeps on going on until they start to get into more serious questions like do you want kids etc. and if they've established that they get on well and have similar goals then they decide they not only feel attracted to each other, but they want to build a life together because they have similar goals and feel they would be compatible.

I don't think that going out with a stranger is staying in your comfort zone. It's kind of scary to start to get to know someone you don't really know all that well.



Geekonychus
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13 Aug 2014, 7:25 am

This sounds dangerously close to being another "Friendzone" thread.

The truth of the matter is that if mutual attraction is there, it will build. Doesn't matter if they were friends first or not. You can't force chemistry.

Keep in mind, that if you're friends with someone first and know them personally, you're also more likley to know whether a relationship "wouldn't work out" or not. If anything staying friends sounds like the a more informed choice as it's based on personal knowledge and not some dating game. Sucks for the other person if they don't feel the same way, but that's life. Accept the friendship or move on but you can't create attraction that's not there.



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13 Aug 2014, 11:18 am

Not every gal or guy believes in a friend zone. Many of the female friends I have are actually staunchly against the idea of "friend-zoning," and believe in dating long term friends if the opportunity arises. People are very nit-picky though about who they want to sleep with and date, that's why in actuality there are A LOT LESS people getting laid in the world right now, than you'd think.



aspiemike
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13 Aug 2014, 11:20 am

Part of the courtship process involves assuring the other person that you like them and are interested in them. Then asking out on dates may occur. This process usually has to continue throughout the relationship as well (its called reassurance, and my experience indicates women need this more then men). If you can't reassure someone that you still like them and can be trusted, that may be a deal breaker for them and encourage them to look elsewhere.


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dilanger
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13 Aug 2014, 11:47 am

"I want to take you out and treat you like a lady." I ask.

"I just want to be friends" she says.

"Where is the fun in that?" I say.

They either give you excuses, or an okay.

Please do not put up with excuses.



hurtloam
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13 Aug 2014, 12:35 pm

Please don't say: "...and treat you like a lady." That's a bit cringy.

"I'd like to get to know you better. Do you want to go for a coffee?" is fine.

Or if you're somewhere with her: "I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you want to go for a coffee?"

You don't need any fancy-schmancy mock chivillary. It's creepy.

But yeah, if she says no, she means no and just accept that.



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13 Aug 2014, 12:40 pm

Although humans can conceive of different motives and ideals you have to remember we are also just higher forms of animal and developed under natures rules for survival. So that means as 'machines' so to speak, our bodies and minds still retain much of the natural mechanics (hormones, stimuli) that are geared towards natural selective breeding. At least that would be true if you ascribe to current scientific theory.

So with relationships multiple things are at play. Generally I believe physical attraction is usually the first main component and then mental compatibility. At least in RL encounters. Online meeting often seems to have it reversed. But basically it is there, that mutual drawing together, or it is not. It won't happen just because it seems logical or one wants it really badly. Persuing a relationship when it is not there is mostly wasted time. Better to forget it as best as possible and look towards meeting someone new.



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13 Aug 2014, 12:47 pm

The answer is evolution. We are programmed to behave in certain ways because they worked in the past. Women have to invest 9 months of their life (at the very least) to nurture a baby, so she better make damn sure her mate has desirable qualities in terms of being a natural leader, provider, free of physical defects, strong, tall, smart, etc.. For a man, he doesn't have to invest anything necessarily, so men are less picky. They just "want" in an evolutionary sense, to spread their seed to as many attractive women as possible.

Of course it's possible to transcend one's programming.



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13 Aug 2014, 1:01 pm

AspE wrote:
The answer is evolution. We are programmed to behave in certain ways because they worked in the past. Women have to invest 9 months of their life (at the very least) to nurture a baby, so she better make damn sure her mate has desirable qualities in terms of being a natural leader, provider, free of physical defects, strong, tall, smart, etc.. For a man, he doesn't have to invest anything necessarily, so men are less picky. They just "want" in an evolutionary sense, to spread their seed to as many attractive women as possible.

Of course it's possible to transcend one's programming.


Ah, but a man will only "want" to give his seed to a more "prime mate" (if you want to put it in an evolutionary sense). Men can be incredibly picky about who they want to mate with. Very few men are willing to mate with desperate females purely out of desire, and vice versa. I mean if you want to pair it off that way, that's how most animals mate in the wild, the stronger more prime animals are much harder to court, and desperate ones are much easier, but genetically they can be much weaker, and it normally ends the same; the primes mate with the primes, the desperates mate with other desperates.

Humans don't mate like wild animals though, it may seem like it a lot of the time, but in actuality the average number of partners a human male has had in his lifetime comes out to about 6, and for most females it totals out to only around 4. Due to the fact we have emotions and logical feelings that are exerted not just on a natural level, but also on a higher level of understanding (higher to human perception) we can be some of the pickiest maters in the animal kingdom, male or female. In all actuality you can't compare every Human as having the same feelings about mating, thoughts on love, and any thought patterns in general. I have a hard time putting in my own words, so I use a cliche, but very true quote to describe it: "beauty lies within the eyes of the beholder."



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14 Aug 2014, 3:27 am

hurtloam wrote:
Please don't say: "...and treat you like a lady." That's a bit cringy.

"I'd like to get to know you better. Do you want to go for a coffee?" is fine.

Or if you're somewhere with her: "I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you want to go for a coffee?"

You don't need any fancy-schmancy mock chivillary. It's creepy.

But yeah, if she says no, she means no and just accept that.


what about for the masses of people who don't drink or like coffee. its ewwy.

not that I can approach or ask out random women anways. but the whole lets have coffee is a negitive to me. though not the sole reason I would ignore a woman's proflie.



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14 Aug 2014, 5:41 am

sly279 wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Please don't say: "...and treat you like a lady." That's a bit cringy.

"I'd like to get to know you better. Do you want to go for a coffee?" is fine.

Or if you're somewhere with her: "I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you want to go for a coffee?"

You don't need any fancy-schmancy mock chivillary. It's creepy.

But yeah, if she says no, she means no and just accept that.


what about for the masses of people who don't drink or like coffee. its ewwy.

not that I can approach or ask out random women anways. but the whole lets have coffee is a negitive to me. though not the sole reason I would ignore a woman's proflie.


I hate coffee and don't drink it, but it doesn't mean I won't meet up for "coffee" with someone. When I do, I usually just drink tea or water. The reason you're meeting in the first place isn't so much to drink coffee, but to get to know the other person in a comfortable setting.



rdos
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14 Aug 2014, 6:01 am

AspE wrote:
The answer is evolution. We are programmed to behave in certain ways because they worked in the past. Women have to invest 9 months of their life (at the very least) to nurture a baby, so she better make damn sure her mate has desirable qualities in terms of being a natural leader, provider, free of physical defects, strong, tall, smart, etc.. For a man, he doesn't have to invest anything necessarily, so men are less picky. They just "want" in an evolutionary sense, to spread their seed to as many attractive women as possible.


Who's evolution are you talking about? It sounds like neurotypical evolution, which has no relevance for neurodiverse people. They are just trying to fool us into playing it their way, which is not optimal for us.



hurtloam
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14 Aug 2014, 7:10 am

sly279 wrote:
what about for the masses of people who don't drink or like coffee. its ewwy.

not that I can approach or ask out random women anways. but the whole lets have coffee is a negitive to me. though not the sole reason I would ignore a woman's proflie.


"Coffee" isn't always coffee. It's just a tool people use to spend time together. You can order whatever drink you like. Don't get hung up on the coffe, it just means that the other person is saying they want to spend time with you.

If someone invites you up to their apartment after the date for coffee, well that can mean something else entirely:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnV3uFO4Nm8[/youtube]



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14 Aug 2014, 7:28 am

Toy_Soldier wrote:
Although humans can conceive of different motives and ideals you have to remember we are also just higher forms of animal and developed under natures rules for survival. So that means as 'machines' so to speak, our bodies and minds still retain much of the natural mechanics (hormones, stimuli) that are geared towards natural selective breeding. At least that would be true if you ascribe to current scientific theory.

So with relationships multiple things are at play. Generally I believe physical attraction is usually the first main component and then mental compatibility. At least in RL encounters. Online meeting often seems to have it reversed. But basically it is there, that mutual drawing together, or it is not. It won't happen just because it seems logical or one wants it really badly. Persuing a relationship when it is not there is mostly wasted time. Better to forget it as best as possible and look towards meeting someone new.


No, it doesn't, if they don't find you cute it won't happen.



Azereiah
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14 Aug 2014, 9:53 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Toy_Soldier wrote:
Although humans can conceive of different motives and ideals you have to remember we are also just higher forms of animal and developed under natures rules for survival. So that means as 'machines' so to speak, our bodies and minds still retain much of the natural mechanics (hormones, stimuli) that are geared towards natural selective breeding. At least that would be true if you ascribe to current scientific theory.

So with relationships multiple things are at play. Generally I believe physical attraction is usually the first main component and then mental compatibility. At least in RL encounters. Online meeting often seems to have it reversed. But basically it is there, that mutual drawing together, or it is not. It won't happen just because it seems logical or one wants it really badly. Persuing a relationship when it is not there is mostly wasted time. Better to forget it as best as possible and look towards meeting someone new.


No, it doesn't, if they don't find you cute it won't happen.


Depends. In my experience, I've only ever gotten attached to people who I later find out are definitely my type, after pictures are swapped, or we go on webcam, or something. That might be a fluke, but after a fair number of times that this has happened, I'm pretty sure it's not. Sometimes personality heavily influences how much people care for themselves, and in what ways.