Why is love and dating extremely courtship and strategic-bas

Page 2 of 4 [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

17 Aug 2014, 7:29 am

Outrider wrote:
Many posters have said you can't force attraction. This is very true.


At least I can force a connection (with a little help from the girl). We'll do a study on this some time to check if it is something many neurodiverse people can do or not.

Outrider wrote:
What you also can't force however is stopping a connection when you really feel one is building.


Yes, that's the really problematic issue.



aspiemike
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,287
Location: Canada

17 Aug 2014, 8:55 am

To the last three posts in here:

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/you-cant-force-a-relationship-or-attraction-with-a-nice-guy/

It applies the same to men as well. Believe me on that one, I watched a woman rationalize their behaviour in front of me after I did that with the previous women. And it is true... more often than not, you have to see your behaviour mirrored in someone else to know how horrible it is.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 88 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

17 Aug 2014, 10:07 am

What I meant is that there is a rather simple method that can create a connection to any girl. I don't need to know anything about her. It's happened the same way at least 3 different times. Thus, I don't think attraction has a lot to do with whom I get connected to, rather it requires a very specific procedure to happen.

I wouldn't want to use this method on just anybody, and the first time it happened it took many years to get rid of the connection.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

17 Aug 2014, 1:13 pm

Outrider wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Chivalry as applied to courtship/dating is dead. It has been replaced by being polite.

I would not go the whole date a stranger straight to love at first sight route. That has become ingrained in dating culture, and it needs to hurry up and die, too.

Your first step should be make a lot of friends. Next, be proactive in arranging meetups. From that crowd, find ways to hang out with single folks you'd be interested in going out with. This will establish your dating pool. Keep that pool open. Ask one or two new people out every week. When you get turned down, go to the next person on the list. Rinse and repeat often.

What will start to happen is out of those who accept dates, some will show more interest in you than others. Your dating pool will become a lot more shallow at this point. Of those who really like you, you're going to want to spend more time with some than others. The one who really, REALLY likes you and somehow stands out over the others is the one you're going to explore the possibility of a commited LTR with. If that doesn't work, i.e. he or she keeps options open, go to the next one. Repeat until romantic feelings are reciprocated and you achieve LTR status. Meet the parents. Get your families together. Still cooking after 6 months of being an "official" couple? Everything good among prospective in-laws? Had the talk about making babies? Get married, and don't waste time getting there, either.

The friendship stages will take the most time. You need to know how people act when they don't know someone is watching. When a guy breaks up with a girl and starts chatting you up, you'll already know if he abuses drugs and beats women. If a woman you're acquainted with trashes her bf in front of her friends comes available, you'll want to stay away so the same doesn't happen to you. Keeping those boundaries early on will bring the crazies up to the surface and reveal them for who they really are. Only then do you need to start looking at how successful a romantic relationship would be. Since you already know things can work out, you can cut a lot of "courtship" corners that often trap couples in bad relationships.


You have gotten exactly what I've been saying. I can't help but strongly agree with your ideals. Sadly, this is exactly where the problem lies.

For some reason society idealizes the first method; shallow, superficial relationships sprung out of strangers getting to know each other. The second method however; the one you have thought of where you actually expand your friendship and dating pool and build relationships out of trial-and-error but also improving on existing connections doesn't work in societies eyes.

Many posters have said you can't force attraction. This is very true. What you also can't force however is stopping a connection when you really feel one is building. The issue is if a mutual attraction or connection between two people that you feel SHOULD go beyond friendship to "test the waters" so to speak, you are crossing a pre-established line that for some reason society thinks is uncomfortable and wrong... :?: Am puzzled...

I said earlier people are too scared to leave their comfort zones. This is what I meant really. A mutual connection/chemistry cannot advance further due to people remaining comfy in their little boxes and strict social guidelines.

I don't deny that it cuts against the grain in society...but let's be honest here... What society deems as "normal" usually entails hooking up with the first person you meet, getting into a LTR right away, and riding that horse waaaaay too long and crashing into a big mess of a breakup with people screaming at each other, harrasment, stalking, or worse. It involves meeting THE man/woman of your dreams, and, gasp, oh noes!! ! He or she dumped me and my life is OVER!! !

If that's normal, screw that. I'd rather be weird and cultivate friendships out of which a romantic relationship evolves from having spent most of my time with one particular person.

Society is st00pid.

You can't help who you are attracted to...I understand that. But what do you want? A stable relationship? Or 4 or so heartbreaks that span most of your life? You can't let emotion get in the way here because being attracted to someone is no guarantee of reciprocity. That's why what I'm suggesting takes so much time. Your most stable relationships will be the ones with people you already spend the most time with. Let these relationships form naturally. When you get there, it won't take long to figure out who your best bet will be.



Cafeaulait
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,537
Location: Europe

17 Aug 2014, 4:51 pm

Ooh my god I liked him sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

I hate it when I really like a guy and he doesn't like me. I'm afraid I will never meet someone like him again.



Outrider
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,007
Location: Australia

17 Aug 2014, 5:55 pm

rdos wrote:
What I meant is that there is a rather simple method that can create a connection to any girl. I don't need to know anything about her. It's happened the same way at least 3 different times. Thus, I don't think attraction has a lot to do with whom I get connected to, rather it requires a very specific procedure to happen.

I wouldn't want to use this method on just anybody, and the first time it happened it took many years to get rid of the connection.


Exactyl! This "specific procedure" you speak of is the "tedious little games" I've been talking about.



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

18 Aug 2014, 2:12 am

Outrider wrote:
rdos wrote:
What I meant is that there is a rather simple method that can create a connection to any girl. I don't need to know anything about her. It's happened the same way at least 3 different times. Thus, I don't think attraction has a lot to do with whom I get connected to, rather it requires a very specific procedure to happen.

I wouldn't want to use this method on just anybody, and the first time it happened it took many years to get rid of the connection.


Exactyl! This "specific procedure" you speak of is the "tedious little games" I've been talking about.


Perhaps. It happens to me when a girl sits in front of me, and we are flirting for a while (typically 30 minutes or so). It can also happen if I walk behind her for a similar amount of time.



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

18 Aug 2014, 2:13 am

Cafeaulait wrote:
Ooh my god I liked him sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

I hate it when I really like a guy and he doesn't like me. I'm afraid I will never meet someone like him again.


Try to place yourself in front of him and flirt with him. It might do wonders if he is neurodiverse. :wink:



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

18 Aug 2014, 9:06 am

Cafeaulait wrote:
Ooh my god I liked him sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

I hate it when I really like a guy and he doesn't like me. I'm afraid I will never meet someone like him again.

Which is why you can't allow yourself to be bothered by it. No, you won't meet someone like him again...but the same could be said for the next guy and the next.

We tend to get WAY over-emotional about it. Being emotional choosing a partner leads to snap decisions you'll regret--he's so cute and has such a great personality you miss the warning signs of an abuser. I think your best LTR material forms naturally over time. When you make and keep boundaries for long enough time, LTRs "just happen."

I'm not saying the first person you meet can't be "the one." I just don't see it as likely. And you shouldn't assume the first person you meet IS the one, either. And I really do think letting emotions get in the way is going lead to more hurt than otherwise. Attraction is a good thing, but early on it's ok to be attracted to more than one single person.

I also think it's a bad idea to let someone push a relationship forward before you're ready. If a guy says he wants something serious NOW and you still feel you'd like to see other guys, cross him off your list. It's ok to bring it up, but a LTR has to be something you both want. If one of you is getting pushy about it, you need to move on. If you want something serious and he isn't it's time to spend more time with someone else. And this is after your dating pool has shrunk to about 4 guys, guys you should know really well by now already.



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

18 Aug 2014, 9:27 am

Personally, I never had any pool of possible partners. The connections happened so rarely that I seldom had more than one at a time. I don't believe in the traditional dating game at all. If I ever needed to get into dating again, I would still require long term commitment to flirting before even thinking about getting into a relationship. That's the best method to weed-out the bad stuff. The one's that do put some effort into it will typically work for me, so I don't need to be very selective with them.

In essence, it's better with one quality candidate than 100s of speed-dates that are all worthless. It's especially better because 100s of dates going wrong will put your self-esteem at a zero point. No sense in subjecting yourself to that.



Geekonychus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,660

18 Aug 2014, 9:35 am

It sounds like your so obsessed with playing these "dating games" by Neurotypical rules that aren't designed with people like us in mind. If you try to date by behaving and acting like what you think most other girls are looking for, you will fail. In the off chance you manage to convince a normal (i.e. NT) to go out with you, it can only end badly because you're being a fake to get there.

In other words, stop thinking you need to appeal to the majority that likes to play games. You should be trying to appeal to the minority that agrees with you and thinks such games are stupid.



rdos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,089
Location: Sweden

18 Aug 2014, 9:44 am

Geekonychus wrote:
In other words, stop thinking you need to appeal to the majority that likes to play games. You should be trying to appeal to the minority that agrees with you and thinks such games are stupid.


There are neurodiverse games as well, but they look radically different from the neurotypical ones. You can skip the neurodiverse games, but they are really enjoyable, so I wouldn't want to do that. It's kind of skipping the best part of it all.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

18 Aug 2014, 10:32 am

You wouldn't be speed-dating, though. You wouldn't be dating anywhere remotely within the conventional sense. The primary goal is not to find "the one." The goal is to just get to know as many people as you can on a strictly casual basis. You won't necessarily actually go out with hundreds of women. It's just the more contacts you have, the easier it's going to be to find someone to hang out with on the weekend, with the understanding that you're just hanging out and having fun. You aren't going to call up 100 available women without at least person agreeing to go out with you one time. If these are women you know already, you won't make it far down the list before you find someone. After 3 or 4 rejections by the same woman, cross her off the list. I wouldn't ask her out after a rejection unless I'd made it through the list already and came back to her, which could take a long time. After 4 unreturned text messages or voicemails, I'll write her off as a fader and call it good.

The problem as I see it isn't that you can't cut straight to the chase and pursue every woman who smiles at you as a romantic LTR in the conventional sense. It's that finding a quality partner isn't easy, and there is a complex of unwritten rules and non-verbal cues that a person with social deficits will find impossible to navigate. NTs won't find that quite so difficult.

If you don't or can't understand the social/relational labyrinth to a LTR, your best bet is to bypass the game with all its rules altogether. Go with a simpler, more logical process, get emotion out of the picture (i.e. not the first person you feel an attraction to), and put more stock in activities that put the probability of finding a number of "quality" individuals to date more in your favor.

Doesn't mean you still can't get hurt. Doesn't mean people don't still change their minds. Just means it's more likely that the last one standing is your most compatible partner.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

18 Aug 2014, 10:39 am

rdos wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
In other words, stop thinking you need to appeal to the majority that likes to play games. You should be trying to appeal to the minority that agrees with you and thinks such games are stupid.


There are neurodiverse games as well, but they look radically different from the neurotypical ones. You can skip the neurodiverse games, but they are really enjoyable, so I wouldn't want to do that. It's kind of skipping the best part of it all.

Getting dumped by someone you care about is fun?



Cafeaulait
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,537
Location: Europe

18 Aug 2014, 2:08 pm

rdos wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
Ooh my god I liked him sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

I hate it when I really like a guy and he doesn't like me. I'm afraid I will never meet someone like him again.


Try to place yourself in front of him and flirt with him. It might do wonders if he is neurodiverse. :wink:


It's strange. I think he doesn't have a psychiatric disorder. I do think he has some autistic traits though, like many gifted people do.
But he is so out of my league. He is really smart, quite handsome, very nice to others, has quite a lot of friends, is a scout-leader and is member of a political party.



Cafeaulait
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,537
Location: Europe

18 Aug 2014, 2:11 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
Ooh my god I liked him sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.

I hate it when I really like a guy and he doesn't like me. I'm afraid I will never meet someone like him again.

Which is why you can't allow yourself to be bothered by it. No, you won't meet someone like him again...but the same could be said for the next guy and the next.

We tend to get WAY over-emotional about it. Being emotional choosing a partner leads to snap decisions you'll regret--he's so cute and has such a great personality you miss the warning signs of an abuser. I think your best LTR material forms naturally over time. When you make and keep boundaries for long enough time, LTRs "just happen."

I'm not saying the first person you meet can't be "the one." I just don't see it as likely. And you shouldn't assume the first person you meet IS the one, either. And I really do think letting emotions get in the way is going lead to more hurt than otherwise. Attraction is a good thing, but early on it's ok to be attracted to more than one single person.

I also think it's a bad idea to let someone push a relationship forward before you're ready. If a guy says he wants something serious NOW and you still feel you'd like to see other guys, cross him off your list. It's ok to bring it up, but a LTR has to be something you both want. If one of you is getting pushy about it, you need to move on. If you want something serious and he isn't it's time to spend more time with someone else. And this is after your dating pool has shrunk to about 4 guys, guys you should know really well by now already.


Sure, but what does this rant have to do with my post?