Why does the world feel justified by judging America?

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SilverProteus
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16 Aug 2014, 12:29 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
I say they are jealous.

...


I think that is a bit of an oversimplification. Chalking up a whole range of complex reasons to simply "being jealous" reeks of some sort of weird defence mechanism. Black and white thinking isn't a good thing.

(I'm not an American and I don't dislike America, but I wouldn't want to live there.)


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16 Aug 2014, 3:43 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
I say they are jealous.

Any nation that has the military and economic might to heavily sway international affairs really doesn't feel the need to apologize for it, and they are universally HATED by everyone who DOES NOT have that level of power and influence.

.


I am not jealous at all. I love living in a country where I know I will never be denied medical treatment at point of demand because of financial reasons.

That reason alone is what terrifies me about the thought of living in America.

It isnt that people are angry that America has the might to sway international affairs, but that it does so beyond its RIGHT. There is a very big difference.


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zer0netgain
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16 Aug 2014, 6:31 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
:roll: Or maybe they are afraid that a nation run mostly by politicians bought out over corporate intersts...


True, but I don't see all the "whiners and complainers" coming up with any real solutions for what ails the world. In fact, they often turn to the USA to solve the problem(s) for them.

Rather ironic.



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16 Aug 2014, 6:50 pm

The USA reminds me of thtoon cartoons where the protagonist hurtles over a cliff and treads air stops and then in a moment of horrible realisation falls. The US Dollar is in trouble and US geopolitics aseem to revolve around ways to secure oil. America PRETENDS to interfere in foreign affairs because of its divine duty and claims to be able to do so because of divine right. In reality American politics are guided by expansionist and colonial thinking. After all it was created through that very same thinking.

Any nation who has suffered under the bootheel of America has a right and duty to judge America. In fact certain politicians need to be brought to account for war crrimes


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16 Aug 2014, 6:56 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I say they are jealous.

Any nation that has the military and economic might to heavily sway international affairs really doesn't feel the need to apologize for it, and they are universally HATED by everyone who DOES NOT have that level of power and influence.

Not that such nations can't do bad things worthy of being disliked for, but most nations complain basically because THEY can't wield the same level of power and influence. A nations pointing fingers at the USA for stuff they've done as well (if not worse) is just a hypocrite. You'd have to have the power and influence and choose NOT to do the same to take a stand on moral grounds.


:roll: Or maybe they are afraid that a nation run mostly by politicians bought out over corporate intersts...might do with all that military and economic might and dislike the sort of aggogance that would suggest the only reason anyone would have an issue with the U.S and its policies is becuase they are jealous about not being as 'powerful' also though I think it is more citizens of other countries that criticize the U.S don't think they are jelous about power I think many of them do base opinions on what they see as wrong doing rather than simply 'they are more powerful....waaaaa' but i could be wrong.


If you think that the US government is run by corporate interests, take a look at the UK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06 ... r_badness/

They couldn't decide whether to mount catapults on their new aircraft carriers or make them STVOL/helicopter-only, so the MoD paid their shipyards an extra £1.8bn to make them "adaptable" so that they could be upgraded with catapults later. When they approached the shipyards about doing that, they were told that it would cost a total of £5bn to add catapults to both ships. Since the cost of the entire program is expected to be £6.2bn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Eliz ... ft_carrier ), that's almost as much as building two new carriers from scratch. That £1.8bn ($3bn) obviously didn't make them very adaptable.



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16 Aug 2014, 7:22 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
:roll: Or maybe they are afraid that a nation run mostly by politicians bought out over corporate intersts...


True, but I don't see all the "whiners and complainers" coming up with any real solutions for what ails the world. In fact, they often turn to the USA to solve the problem(s) for them.

Rather ironic.


Yeah and I don't see how criticizing the sh*tty policies of this nation makes people mere whiners and complainers....isn't it normal to complain about stuff that bothers one at least some? Also its a huge mess not sure any single person would be able to come up with a solution to fix it...doesn't mean people shouldn't express that it bothers them. The 'non whiners and complainers' don't seem to have a solution either....ignoring the issue and hoping it goes away is not a solution.


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16 Aug 2014, 7:26 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I say they are jealous.

Any nation that has the military and economic might to heavily sway international affairs really doesn't feel the need to apologize for it, and they are universally HATED by everyone who DOES NOT have that level of power and influence.

Not that such nations can't do bad things worthy of being disliked for, but most nations complain basically because THEY can't wield the same level of power and influence. A nations pointing fingers at the USA for stuff they've done as well (if not worse) is just a hypocrite. You'd have to have the power and influence and choose NOT to do the same to take a stand on moral grounds.


:roll: Or maybe they are afraid that a nation run mostly by politicians bought out over corporate intersts...might do with all that military and economic might and dislike the sort of aggogance that would suggest the only reason anyone would have an issue with the U.S and its policies is becuase they are jealous about not being as 'powerful' also though I think it is more citizens of other countries that criticize the U.S don't think they are jelous about power I think many of them do base opinions on what they see as wrong doing rather than simply 'they are more powerful....waaaaa' but i could be wrong.


If you think that the US government is run by corporate interests, take a look at the UK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06 ... r_badness/

They couldn't decide whether to mount catapults on their new aircraft carriers or make them STVOL/helicopter-only, so the MoD paid their shipyards an extra £1.8bn to make them "adaptable" so that they could be upgraded with catapults later. When they approached the shipyards about doing that, they were told that it would cost a total of £5bn to add catapults to both ships. Since the cost of the entire program is expected to be £6.2bn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Eliz ... ft_carrier ), that's almost as much as building two new carriers from scratch. That £1.8bn ($3bn) obviously didn't make them very adaptable.


So the U.S and the U.K have something in common.....if you don't think the U.S is ran by corporate intrests why do we have private for profit prisons over here or the war on drugs? lots of money is made from that.


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16 Aug 2014, 8:04 pm

^ State-run prisons aren't always better. A lot of states pay local law enforcement agencies to house prisoners and distribute funds based on "need." The more people there are in the county jail, the greater the state funding. It's hard to avoid because there are genuine fluctuations in crime, and somehow the money has to go to where it's needed. It's tough to do that without creating an incentive to jail people for piddling offenses.

I've also worked for non-profit social service organizations, and I can tell you that the "non-profit" designation doesn't mean that self-interest isn't the prime motivator. Most of the money goes to pay the staff, many of whom are from middle-class or affluent backgrounds. I would assume that an organization that claims to spend 95% of its revenue on services for the poor is spending 90% of that on staff salaries and 5% on direct giving. Whether that's a good deal for their beneficiaries depends on whether the staff are disseminating enough wisdom to justify taking such a big cut.



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16 Aug 2014, 8:15 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
I've also worked for non-profit social service organizations, and I can tell you that the "non-profit" designation doesn't mean that self-interest isn't the prime motivator. Most of the money goes to pay the staff, many of whom are from middle-class or affluent backgrounds. I would assume that an organization that claims to spend 95% of its revenue on services for the poor is spending 90% of that on staff salaries and 5% on direct giving. Whether that's a good deal for their beneficiaries depends on whether the staff is disseminating enough wisdom to justify taking such a big cut.

I'm a humane society volunteer and I suspect them of what you're talking about. In a nutshell, too many chiefs and not enough indians. Things that need to be done for the animals don't always get done and I suspect the funds are being funneled into the offices. :roll:


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16 Aug 2014, 10:47 pm

I'm actually jealous of nordic countries and Switzerland, I think that they're the best places in the world to live in. :salut: :thumright:


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16 Aug 2014, 10:55 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Well, I'm sorry I don't want to offend any non-Americans, but why do people sometimes give a negative perspective of American politics? Sure, we don't have universal health care and stuff, we may have crappy roads but why must people guilt trip Americans by saying they should have the government offer this stuff? I am conservative fiscally, but very liberal socially. What's weird is that people always say it's the Americans who are being the bullies to the world.

I'm sorry to offend anyone here from the other industrialized nations here, but as a born American, this is my perspective. I'll welcome a good reason to judge America and it's conservatism, but I can't think of a reason to justify it.


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zer0netgain
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17 Aug 2014, 8:08 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah and I don't see how criticizing the sh*tty policies of this nation makes people mere whiners and complainers....isn't it normal to complain about stuff that bothers one at least some? Also its a huge mess not sure any single person would be able to come up with a solution to fix it...doesn't mean people shouldn't express that it bothers them. The 'non whiners and complainers' don't seem to have a solution either....ignoring the issue and hoping it goes away is not a solution.


It's one thing to complain about something a few times. However, some of the more vocal "critics" of US policy DO NOT come up with any realistic ideas of their own to address the problem, and even if they try, they really don't want to commit any of THEIR people and resources to make it happen.

It's not enough to say something is broken. You have to make an effort to be part of the solution.



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17 Aug 2014, 6:23 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
NobodyKnows wrote:
It does seem a little unfair sometimes. People often act as though the US is the only country with uncivilized quirks, which is quite untrue. For example, Autobahn crashes have a nasty record of wiping out entire families in a flash, but Germans aren't up in arms about speed limits. In the US we've lowered speed limits and repeatedly increased vehicle safety standards. I always think of that when gun-control advocates say 'No civilized country would tolerate the level of mayhem that we have.


German roads are still among the safest in the world. The Autobahn is safer than the American highways despite the higher speeds.


That's probably an apples-to-oranges comparison. The only direct comparisons that I've found list overall fatalities per 100,000 person-years, and per 1 billiion vehicle-kilometers.

Germany is more urban and less rural than the US, their roads are consequently better lit, their weather isn't as bad as the northern US, and driving is considered a privilege for the established and wealthy. Getting your driver's license costs 1,000-1,500 euros, gas is twice as expensive, and you can be ticketed for driving a rust-bucket. Probably because of the higher cost, Germans tend to start driving at a later age. Those aren't necessarily bad things, but they make it harder for someone who isn't already wealthy to do work that requires a vehicle.


All Germans I know drive, and they drive a lot. Cars in Germany are actually a lot cheaper than they are here in the Netherlands, and gas too. People go to Germany for fuel. From what I've seen most Germans get their license pretty young for European standards (you usually need to be 18 to get a license). I don't think driving is really for the wealthy elite.
And if you have a car that drives over 200km/h, it's probably a somewhat expensive car that is also fairly safe. My old car can't even come near that. The poorer Germans probably drive something that can't get to really high speeds. The weird thing though is that when you drive really fast in Germany, you still sometimes see some car come up behind you REALLY fast. When they pass it's almost as if you're not even moving.



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17 Aug 2014, 6:27 pm

SilverProteus wrote:
I'm actually jealous of nordic countries and Switzerland, I think that they're the best places in the world to live in. :salut: :thumright:


That also depends on whether you like their weather.
Funny you have a Loki quote, since he was ultimately invented by the Scandinavians (assuming Asgard does not really exist).



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17 Aug 2014, 6:58 pm

trollcatman wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
I'm actually jealous of nordic countries and Switzerland, I think that they're the best places in the world to live in. :salut: :thumright:


That also depends on whether you like their weather.
Funny you have a Loki quote, since he was ultimately invented by the Scandinavians (assuming Asgard does not really exist).


I really don't think I would mind it, if the nordic countries prove to be too harsh then I'd move to Switzerland. :D Or Japan, I love their culture but it would be too different from mine and would be difficult to adapt to.

Loki the trickster is my favourite god (though I don't actually believe he exists).


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17 Aug 2014, 7:08 pm

SilverProteus wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
I'm actually jealous of nordic countries and Switzerland, I think that they're the best places in the world to live in. :salut: :thumright:


That also depends on whether you like their weather.
Funny you have a Loki quote, since he was ultimately invented by the Scandinavians (assuming Asgard does not really exist).


I really don't think I would mind it, if the nordic countries prove to be too harsh then I'd move to Switzerland. :D Or Japan, I love their culture but it would be too different from mine and would be difficult to adapt to.

Loki the trickster is my favourite god (though I don't actually believe he exists).


I think Denmark has quite a moderate climate. Western Europe is much milder than you would expect from the latitude because of the Atlantic Ocean and North Sea. It gives us heat in winter and cool in summer.
The Scandinavian languages probably wouldn't be too hard for an English speaker to learn either. Most people there speak English anyway.