There isn't any proof

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Basically we attributed natural events to gods or higher entities in pre-history. The relationship was rather immediate and less abstract than it became later. It it was pretty straightforward association, based on what little we know about the world a the time.

Actually pre-history religion and morality weren't necessarily linked. Gods weren't necessarily liked, worship was born out of necessity. or so they thought. It also an early example of meme, which like it or not are an important fabric of societies.

Why are we violent? Why are chimpanzees violent? Animal behavior, testosterone, territory and sexual aggression.

The rest of what you post is the "leap" part. You re saying becuase of this you need the explanation you offer, but actually this is a fallacy.

How do you know it isnt the other way around?

Nastiness might be the norm. And the random acts of kindness, charity, postivitity, creativity, and so forth, are all caused by Archons from another dimension who need to feed off of the positivity.

So- we all desperately NEED these Archons!! !! !!

Those movies were INSPIRED by gnosticism not the other way around. People have known about the Archons for thousands of years before Scientology and yada yada yada. Gnosticism is nothing new.

I listed those movies to give you somewhat of an idea of gnosticism in modern culture but I do suggest everyone break free of their matrixes.
Modern branches of gnosticism pose the question what if these are aliens the religious folk are talking about only they are so lost without science, they don't know how to phrase what they are seeing. Today, for example, if we saw an alien invasion it would be much easier for us to record, "now THAT is an alien invasion," but with the language of generations thousands of years from now, even they might not know what in sam-hades name we are talking about and THEY might become confused as well.

Do you mean me? I mentioned The Matrix not long ago as a thought experiment. I don't believe it is actually true.

Don't remember the guy's WP handle. Dont think it was you.Not a name Ive seen very often. But a couple times this guy posted about how "aspies are Jews" in some sense. At first it sounded kinda poetic- aspies being in bondage in Egypt, or in captivity in Babylon, might be an interesting Biblical metaphor. But then he would just go off the deep end into his own abyss. And it was all inspired by him seeing the Matrix- which convinced him that he was in a matrix. And that both aspies and jews are equivalent to the protagonist in the matrix, and that others are equivalent to other characters in the Matrix. Too strange for me to follow.

I knew a young lady (with a history of mental illness) who called me after seeing the movie and actually did get a little bit unglued by the movie and would giggle about how she felt like she was "trapped in a Matrix". I told this WP guy about her, and suggested the he mightve been affected the same way.

^^^ Ah, I remember that one about "aspies are Jews" and other stuff. I didn't understand any of it though.

What in the same way people have known about leprechauns, banshees, seraphim, succubi, incubi, goblins. Not to mention the extraterrestrials who built the pyramids and had runways on the Nazca desert.

What I don't understand is how people manage to cling onto folkloric beliefs centuries after the reasons for their invention has been shown to have an utterly mundane cause.

For goodness sake this isn't about an actual movie it's about the Archons and this very OLD hypothesis that's been around thousands of years! Those movies were INSPIRED by gnostic beliefs. Gnostics didn't appear because they saw a couple of films, then couldn't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

I just listed those movies as examples of gnostic ideas.

Just another word for "the Devil".

Resist temptation! Repent! get thee behind me Satan!

And all of that.
Some slight differences. But the same basic idea. An unseen force causeing all evil.

There is nothing "odd" about human sacrifices. Primitive people assume that the Gods are interested in the same things that they are interested in: like food, and virgin females, and so forth. So you dump corn, and virgins, into the volcano to placate the volcano god.

This idea of archons is a nonstarter for me.
But- what if you got folks to BELIEVE in nonexistent archons. That would make for an interesting story.

Everybody gets terrified of having hateful thoughts because it would feed the Archons. They even go so far as to implant silicon chips in their brains to stop hateful, or negative thoughts. The whole humans race walks around in one of two mental states- positive- or down time rebooting from the silicon chips squelching negative thoughts. What would the world be like if we all went around that way all of the time?

It's not about "evil." Evil is when a man kills another man in a just society where murder is called a crime and people are prosecuted and punished for their "evil."

So you see, NaturalPlastic, it is more insidious than any evil by far when you have an ENTIRE civilization justifying the sacrifice of individuals to gods.
When an entire civilization justifies murder and destruction, it is worse than one individual who goes against the laws, committing an evil act.

And if those gods exist (whichever gods) and endorse it then they must surely be evil too, by their own standards.

Gnosticism is far more interesting than mainstream religion, that's for sure, though I don't believe in any of them.

Are you talking about "Gnostic Christianity"?

The heretical sect that was stamped out in Roman times (but left scrolls at Nag Hammadi in Egypt).

Thats the only "Gnosticism" that Ive ever heard of. I doubt that they had any concept of archons.

YES Archons are in "gnostic Christianity" and it is said Christianity is just a branch of gnosticism.

Lately people have been speculating the wild stories all over the Bible and other religious texts are actually encounters with extra terrestrials and modern gnostics explore this possibility. The Bible and other myths could be mankind's struggle to come to grips with strange encounters they were at a loss to explain or understand.

For instance, what if the story of Adam and Eve is simply an account of a couple's encounter with something from another planet or even universe? The snake could very well be an alien.

I know people want to roll their eyes at that but you cannot discount the possibility something happened and they didn't understand it so they tried to explain it and that's how it was expressed...as some God story of some kind. Why so much talk of supernatural beings? It just seems so illogical. Where does it come from? Don't you ever wonder what caused these people to reach these conclusions? It had to start somewhere from some experience of some kind .

Ana -

Unless you just enjoy bouncing around from fad theory to fad theory I'd really recommend researching Medditeranian and European philosophic and mystic history. When you don't have that foundation almost anything from that time can be cherry-picked and bent around to sound believable.

As for Youtube I'd suggest more MP Hall and less John Lash, or at least have a healthy mix of both if you've gotta go that way.

Yer, they show up in Tripartite Tractate and the Pistis Sophia. The former has a lot of mind-bending creative imagery and I found it fascinating 10 or 15 years ago when I read it. The later is a writer playing a guessing game with psalms between characters and then stating that Yeshua was a brother to the powers of the seven (then) planets.

Regardless of what a lot of people might tend to think, especially reductive rationalists, about his practices I think the amount of 'looking-into' that Poke Runyon has done tends to aim him in a pretty accurate direction regarding the formation of religions. It seems like with Gnostic Christianity, just like in the times of ancient Greece, there was communication with beliefs from places like India and China (part of Pythagoras's education was in India in addition to his time at the library of Memphis in Egypt) and at a time when people were finally starting to live in very grimy, dirty, slave-ish inner city conditions they started taking on the distinct feeling that the world itself was corrupt, filthy, evil, and just a trap in general. Christian Gnosticism, as far as I can tell, is just a synthesis even if an interesting one that took on a lot of powerful mystic symbolism but it's still something of a reaction to a feeling and most of the culture and ideology it took in was borrowed and synthesized to fit that purpose.


I've had it put to me recently that another meaning for 'Eden' is 'time'. Placed in the garden of 'time' to represent the immovable/unchangeable in a temporal environment and to take a very narrow sliver or frenquencies and experience them in a very direct and restricted form of specialization. It's the Most High experiencing itself by way of billions upon billions and trillions upon trillions of organisms. Serpents are also symbolic for oscillation, waves, energy in formation, and one could go on quite a ways further chasing that analogy or what fruit on the tree could mean.


Or, when you probe the corners of such stories and also probe what kind of interactions people still have with such beings you realize that any desire to put this story in a cut-and-dry plane of matter or place it in a neat little stack goes nowhere. I had the chance to explore the bible on the literalist grounds, then the symbolic grounds, then look at the more well-known and plausible (at least in what they correlate - not the flavor of their content) conspiracy theories, and to then check that further and look at the occult where it all seems to boil up from one just finds that the pool gets far far deeper, the ability to tell archetypes and inner-planes entities from external blurs for those who've explored these planes, people like Rudolph Steiner write lengthy epics about planetary evolution in books like his 'Outline of the Occult Sciences' and then someone else will do something almost completely different who gets just as much or even more credit for their work (perhaps Dion Fortune's 'Cosmic Doctrine' among other examples).

The Gnostics did at least do a fairly good job of weaving Judao-Christian symbolism together with Eastern mysticism and Egyptian/Neoplatonist ideas but I still don't think they did nearly as good as the more standard Hermetic schools who took the complete opposite view - that man/woman's work here was to bring down the best of what we have inside of us and make the world a better place, evolve toward higher and higher states of cultural excellence and love toward one another, but to clean and redeem the mass mind rather than trying to escape the world necessarily. The sheer depth of alternate views such as the Hermetic one vs the Manichean/Gnostic/Cathar/Albigenes tells me there are incredibly informed people who spend their lives trying to search the very peripheries of where they can reach with their own minds and inner transformations and, their conclusions don't support the idea that we're trapped in a prison built by evil creatures.

You must construct additional pylons.