Why the US is not metric and why it won't be any time soon

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zer0netgain
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20 Aug 2014, 5:17 am

IIRC, it took decades for Europe to make the switch. You really need a whole generation to die off before the old system isn't being used anymore.

A big issue will be cooking. There's no easy way to convert all those recipes to metric measurements.



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20 Aug 2014, 5:35 am

zer0netgain wrote:
IIRC, it took decades for Europe to make the switch. You really need a whole generation to die off before the old system isn't being used anymore.

A big issue will be cooking. There's no easy way to convert all those recipes to metric measurements.


The mixture of different units can be a little frustrating for everyone. The wife sometimes searches the internet for recipes and occasionally she decides to try an American baking recipe which inevitably leads to her asking me "what the hell is a 'cup' of flour?"
So I have to find the conversion factor and convert it into metric or even imperial for her. "Cups" are a purely American invention. Real cups come in all manner of sizes so they are pretty useless to measure any quantities.


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nostromo
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20 Aug 2014, 6:02 am

Some observations from NZ where we went Metric about 40 yrs ago.
Some things were adopted early and widely accepted, Celsius being an example, and unit capacities like litres another, because they are good and logical units of measurement. Nobody now understands how hot a measurement quoted in Fahrenheit is so I disagree with the OP there, it's a big of a whacky measurement.

The imperial measurements that hung on the longest were those ones used to describe people by, and often imperial or metric were used depending on what was being discussed:
- Even after the Km was widely adopted by people to describe a distance, MPH would still be used to describe a speed. As cars with MPH speedos disappeared that faded out, but even after that you'd still be converting back thinking "100Kmh means 60MPH".
- People used the Kg for weight - apart from a persons bodyweight where Stones were still used. Thats faded out in the last 20 or so yrs.

The last hold out from Imperial measurements still going on is describing a persons height, which is often still expressed in feet and inches, so that tallies with what the OP is suggesting there. Thats where the Metric system with its x10 and x100 while being logical doesn't have those intermediate non-decimal sizes there that are sometimes pretty handy for estimating. A CM is pretty small and a Metre kind of a bit too big for many such purposes. Inches and Feet are actually really better sized units of length I think

Anyway I suppose America will slowly eventually adopt the Metric system simply because the rest of the world (I think Liberia and Burma excepted possibly) uses it.



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20 Aug 2014, 7:51 am

zer0netgain wrote:
A big issue will be cooking. There's no easy way to convert all those recipes to metric measurements.

It is remarkably easy actually. 25g = 1 ounce.

Pretty much all the recipes I know use ounces (and that's how I remember them), but I will actually weigh them out in kg. They work just fine.

There might be issues with your bizarre measurements like "cups" (seriously, why use volumes ahead of masses for solids?) but they are relatively easy for chefs and publishers to fix. Traditional recipes will maybe suffer.



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20 Aug 2014, 8:29 am

Australian experience:

I grew up with imperial and the conversion to metric. I'm quite comfy with both.

Weight isn't measured in Newtons, but in kilograms (kg's), at least for the average man on the street. (Newtons are used to measure force, not weight.)

As for what's more humanly comfortable, it's totally what you get used to. I'm quite happy knowing that 40C is "hot, damm hot" and that the ice in my fridge is around 0C. As for height, we tend to use cm, not m. I'm about 67cm in height. I do concede that we hear a lot about 6 foot being the tipping height for tall, but we also get a lot of US TV here. As for car speed, 100kph is the top speed on most freeways here, an easy number to remember. Roughly halve that and you have the suburban speeds, 40, 50 and 60, with highways at 80. All nice and easy gradations.

The best part with metrics is that it's all multiples of 10's, 100's and 1000's.

But on the reverse side of the argument, I'm glad you guys across the pond haven't changed. Having one worldwide system would be like having one worldwide culture. We're already becoming too homogenized as it is.

On a different note, as a pilot, the world system in aviation is to use feet. And I'm quite happy to stick with that. Oddly though, in aviation (and on the water) we don't use km or miles, we use nm (nautical miles). Also we don't use kph or mph, we use knots. And I'm happy with that too. :wink:


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Janissy
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20 Aug 2014, 9:04 am

TallyMan wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
IIRC, it took decades for Europe to make the switch. You really need a whole generation to die off before the old system isn't being used anymore.

A big issue will be cooking. There's no easy way to convert all those recipes to metric measurements.


The mixture of different units can be a little frustrating for everyone. The wife sometimes searches the internet for recipes and occasionally she decides to try an American baking recipe which inevitably leads to her asking me "what the hell is a 'cup' of flour?"
So I have to find the conversion factor and convert it into metric or even imperial for her. "Cups" are a purely American invention. Real cups come in all manner of sizes so they are pretty useless to measure any quantities.


:D I bet her annoyance continued upon discovering that the recipe called for quantities measured in tablespoons and teaspoons, not to be confused with any spoons currently on your able or used for stirring tea.



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20 Aug 2014, 9:40 am

If people want to use the english system for personal or peer to peer use so be it. Eventually most all or all of even that will be eclipsed by metrics, anyway. The important thing would be to get to where we use it exclusively for all science and industrial use. Right now (in the US) both are being used to some extent which we need to get away from.


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20 Aug 2014, 10:49 am

I like fractions like 1/16" and 5/32". And I believe learning this method of measurement gives

you the ability to handle other fractional calculations more easily; good brain exercise.

Fractional mathematics was good enough to let U.S. astronauts walk on the moon;

who else with their metric system have accomplished nearly as much?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."



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20 Aug 2014, 12:22 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Pretty much all the recipes I know use ounces (and that's how I remember them), but I will actually weigh them out in kg. They work just fine.

There might be issues with your bizarre measurements like "cups" (seriously, why use volumes ahead of masses for solids?) but they are relatively easy for chefs and publishers to fix. Traditional recipes will maybe suffer.


My wife is a scientist, so very comfortable with the metric system. However, she hates using European recipes at home, because volumes are quicker and easier to measure than masses. You can pour a cup of flour, a cup of sugar, and a cup of milk in a few seconds, using the same measuring cup. Weighing out so many grams of each is slower and more awkward.

The US is full of old buildings, machinery, and infrastructure of all kinds which new things have to tie into. If there were a decree that everything new had to be metric, we'd still be using inch tools, fasteners, adapters, and replacement parts for a century or more.



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20 Aug 2014, 12:26 pm

I do design engineering, and we work in millimeters. Our machine shop works in inches.



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20 Aug 2014, 12:43 pm

ZenDen wrote:
I like fractions like 1/16" and 5/32". And I believe learning this method of measurement gives

you the ability to handle other fractional calculations more easily; good brain exercise.

Fractional mathematics was good enough to let U.S. astronauts walk on the moon;

who else with their metric system have accomplished nearly as much?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


What about CERN with their large hadron collider? They created f*****g antihydrogen (whatever that is). There have been three discoveries from people at CERN that led to Nobel Prizes, most recently the Higgs boson.



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20 Aug 2014, 12:46 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Pretty much all the recipes I know use ounces (and that's how I remember them), but I will actually weigh them out in kg. They work just fine.

There might be issues with your bizarre measurements like "cups" (seriously, why use volumes ahead of masses for solids?) but they are relatively easy for chefs and publishers to fix. Traditional recipes will maybe suffer.


My wife is a scientist, so very comfortable with the metric system. However, she hates using European recipes at home, because volumes are quicker and easier to measure than masses. You can pour a cup of flour, a cup of sugar, and a cup of milk in a few seconds, using the same measuring cup. Weighing out so many grams of each is slower and more awkward.

The US is full of old buildings, machinery, and infrastructure of all kinds which new things have to tie into. If there were a decree that everything new had to be metric, we'd still be using inch tools, fasteners, adapters, and replacement parts for a century or more.


You could use milliliters if you want to use volume.

Image



Jacoby
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20 Aug 2014, 12:52 pm

I don't understand how anybody could say Celsius is a better gauge of temperature as far as weather goes, Fahrenheit is allows more nuance in the human scale. I'm not a scientist of any any sort but don't they use like Kelvin too? Basing it on water seems as arbitrary as anything.



The_Walrus
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20 Aug 2014, 1:00 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Pretty much all the recipes I know use ounces (and that's how I remember them), but I will actually weigh them out in kg. They work just fine.

There might be issues with your bizarre measurements like "cups" (seriously, why use volumes ahead of masses for solids?) but they are relatively easy for chefs and publishers to fix. Traditional recipes will maybe suffer.


My wife is a scientist, so very comfortable with the metric system. However, she hates using European recipes at home, because volumes are quicker and easier to measure than masses. You can pour a cup of flour, a cup of sugar, and a cup of milk in a few seconds, using the same measuring cup. Weighing out so many grams of each is slower and more awkward.

I find measuring volumes (which realistically you need to do for liquids) a lot harder than masses personally, but I guess it comes to personal preference.

Quote:
The US is full of old buildings, machinery, and infrastructure of all kinds which new things have to tie into. If there were a decree that everything new had to be metric, we'd still be using inch tools, fasteners, adapters, and replacement parts for a century or more.
You act as if that isn't true for everywhere else too - if you've got a problem with old stuff, imagine how hard Europe found making the switch!



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20 Aug 2014, 1:02 pm

Narrator wrote:
(Newtons are used to measure force, not weight.)
Weight is a force.



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20 Aug 2014, 1:52 pm

I believe the only country that uses exclusively Imperial/English measurements, aside from the US, is Belize.

We use liters only for sodas, for some reason. We still have a quart/gallon of milk.

In New Hampshire, distances to exits on highways are rendered in both miles and kilometers. I think I saw that in Maine as well.

In England, the yard is more commonly used on highways than feet; in the US, it's the other way around.

I could convert from Fahrenheit to Celsius easily. I use 10C=50F; 15c=59F; 20C=68F; 25C=77F, and 30C=86F as benchmarks.

Furlongs are still used in horse racing; 1 furlong equals 1/8 of a mile.

We also use pecks and bushels for dry measure.

We measure snow using inches. We measure rain using fractions of an inch.

There are a few nurses who use kilograms to record a person's weight, and centimeters to record a person's height. In nursing forms, the option is use either exists.

Medical doses, in the vast majority of instances, are rendered in variations on the gram or liter.

I am 5 foot 4 3/4 inches tall; that's about 164 centimeters. I weight about 185 lbs, or about 83 kg or so, and about 13 stone.