Atheists in the Military

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Happy? No, if I had to take an oath with any of those names in it I'd find it disturbing and 15 minutes later I would be OVER IT since it would not be relevant to my reason for joining up. It would not occur to me to manufacture some offense to use it as an excuse not to join up or whatever other butthurt I could milk out of it.

Yup, the US Military is not a good place to be for folks who want to be in control. In effect. by joining they give up many of their civilian rights. A person can get in potential disciplinary action trouble, even for getting a Sunburn or committing adultery.

Saying a three letter word, is going to be the least amount of real contingent life changing worry they are likely going to have for giving up their regular civilian rights by entering in the US military. It's fairly good steady pay, and a possible retirement, as well as protecting freedoms and all of that, but yes, the drawbacks do exist and are far beyond a three letter word named GOD in an oath.

I worked with the military for over two decades, and there is no way I would ever want my civilian freedoms taken away like that; particularly considering the inconsistent nature of our last few wars, associated with protecting real US freedom.

But again, it's a usually steady job, when other job opportunities dry up, and usually folks get in for that reason, or ideological family loyalty in belief of protecting our country.

Yes, I'm glad someone does it, as long as it is not me. I value freedom the most, and if I am going to protect it, I'll do it freelance, not under the dominance of someone's control

meh just words. noticed you decided to ignore that atheist say "oh my god" are they fake atheist? or is saying god just a part of common phrasing?

i don't get why atheist feel everyone should change for them, yet would not do it if it was reversed. you won't allow christian teaching in schools but think the world should change every common us phrases for hundreds of years for you.
often claiming atheists are in the minority in the us.

saying so help me allah wouldn't harm me one bit, it doesn't mean I have converted to islam I say a bunch of other stuff too. like f**k me, where I don't really mean for you to f**k me, just so you know. its just a phrase.



the last part was a list made by the us army then distributed and given to in briefings to ncos. it labels christian organizations as emestic terror groups, cause they were against gay marriage. which would seem to be protected on freedom of religion.

yep so when they aren't allowed to actively talk about it, post about it, be part of groups, or have their churches closed while others stay open , they all just made it up. sure. in that case there's no discrimination against atheist its all made up too. I'll go tell them.

Christians talk about how they feel hated. " they just wrong and crazy"
ahteist talk about how they feel hated "kill the Christians"
blacks talk about how a guy was racist " lets get that white cracker"
whites talk about how people are racist " lies only whites are racists"

funny how in rl stuff can go both ways.

Resident patriot and Christian says the oath doesn't mean anything anyway.

Fair enough for you (sincerely btw). But each of us has, and must be allowed to have, our own individual right to take issue with certain things. For some, it's a matter of principle that is prompted by their journey and desire to be authentic. For others, they're on a different journey where such things don't matter. There's too much of, "Why can't you be like me?" in this world.


To quote Robert De Niro... You talkin' to me? lol

When I was a Christian, I sometimes said, OMG. It was just a phrase you hear and end up repeating, but I still felt bad saying it. Now I don't.

Christians are allowed to teach in schools. They just aren't allowed to teach their particular religion in public schools. As for change, calling on tradition as a reason to oppose it is not the best way to go. In the case of government, tradition really should not be a factor in any decision.



It doesn't bother me, personally, but I don't think it should be forced on someone who doesn't believe it any more than I think forcing an atheist to swear on the Bible in a court room is acceptable (which is something I would feel uncomfortable about).



^That list was not all groups opposed to gay marriage. It was a list of groups that had communicated their opposition to ending the military ban on open homosexuality in a less than civil manner. After receiving some anonymous threats over the matter, the military jumped in reactionary defense mode. Over-reaction? probably, but that is the way "defense" works here in the US.



^Not sure where this is coming from.



^You can talk about it alll you want. It is when you try to promote and/or protect the rights of Christians above all others that I have a problem. Freedom of religion is not an exclusive club.



^wtf?



^And the only people I have heard saying things like this are scared and/or incredibly racist and/or Fox flavored white people.

I don't have a problem with Christians or Christianity (or any religion for that matter). What I have a problem with is when people decide that if they don't get preferential treatment than there is some sort of war against them. And there definitely are some atheists that take things to far in just the same manner, but this is not one of those cases. This is a case where an individual feels stroongly that his oath to the Uniterd States would be insincere if he were to use something he does not believe in as the basis.

sonofghandi

so atheist get a monopoly on teaching our children? how is that fair? why not teach both if science is so great and so true, surely it will win out no? it could be optional, kids could attend christian leaning science classes and others attend normal ones. so neither side is forced to listen to stuff they don't support or believe in. but no atheist believe Christianity is evil and must force feed kids their beliefs to bet the evil system. like bill nye thinks.

can we cut out other parts of the oath I disagree with? how about we just get rid of it all together? I mean people mostly join for money now a days that or college. I'd rather not swear a oath to serve the president. id rather serve the people.

i don't protect the rights of Christians over all others, though ahiest act like and try to force their rights over Christians, that their rights as atheists trumps those who believe in god. I am open minded, I believe in equal rights for all, but the way I nation is going is not about equal rights its about forcing Christians to worship in secret so they don't offend atheists.by merely existing. .

I see tons of that. you can't even mention god on this forum without being jumped on by a bunch of atheists. if they were really up for equality and living together they would read the post, be like well I see this guy believes in god, not my way of thinking but it makes him happy and doesn't hurt me so I'll just not post. but instead the go on and on about how horrible Christians are and how god doesn't exist and we are just crazy for believing in fairy tales.

I would never do that to people not even atheists. if you don't believe in god then that's up to you. I won't push you to, i won't try to convert you I don't care its your s**t.

really? i've seen you tube videos of tons of black people saying blacks can't be racist. only whites and Japanese can be racists.
I've been called racists slurs only to be told its not racists and me pointing out calling white people cracker is racist, I just get called racist for pointing it out. we hard a student in high school who called our teacher that. like "shut you up cracker" nothing was done, but when another student say something back against it he got sent to detention.

everyone regardless of race can be racist.

preferential treatment?
i've seen people say a christian billboard is an attack onthem? really o.o. is the burger king bilboard an attack on fat people. no
what I see as an attack is people saying they need to force our kids to stop beleiving in god despite that they don't want to and we don't want them to. that we shouldn't be able to pray in public. that our relgioius beleifs mean nothing and can be thrown aside and force us to violate them. but all I get told is i'm crazy that athiests get attacked (note billboard) and so any attacks on me is either lies or validated by them being attacked. sorry but that doesn't make me feel like liking atheist. all this does is push me away from them.
like my friend who says he doesn't care, but then says Christians shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military.

its a word. same as saying oh my god. tons of ahteists say that all the time, but then saying so help me god is different? I don't get how the word can be ok but then be offensive. also you are saying it with a bunch of other people so if you don't say that last word I doubt they know. hint hint. I never sang in music classes. no one knew. I and others often faked the pledge of allegiance no one knew.

I don't totally believe in evolution yet I was not allowed to refuse to learn it. how is that fair? if you want this it should be equal. those who don't believe in evolution shouldn't be forces to learn about it. they find it just as offensive as those who don't want to say so help me god do.

If you want your child to have relgion taught in school send them to a parochial school,it has no place in public school.
It's not about forcing Christians into hiding,but to be fair if you allow one relgion,you have to allow them all.

^Not at all. There are plenty of Christians who teach science classes in public schools without needing to insert their religious beliefs. I merely advocate teaching science in science class and theology in theology class. If you want to have religion in science you would have to include all religions. If you don't want atheism "forced" on children, you should respect that many parents do not want "religion" forced on children.



And just to reitierate, it is not a "both" situation; it is an all or none situation.



This is an unfair stereotype. Atheists do not believe Christians are evil. Most atheists believe some Christians are evil.



I think that the oath should be to the country, nothing more nothing less. A commitment to one's nation does not need to invoke a higher power.




If you try to claim fact is fraud and religion should trump science, you will definitely not be treated kindly. I will agree that there are a few on here that are militant atheists, which I am against, but there are plenty of militant and condescending Christians as well, which tend to receive the lion's share of ire.



This is because too many times an atheist has to read about how his beliefs have no place in schools and politics by the same people who complain that their personal beliefs can't do exactly that. Most atheists are not calling for atheism to be forced on anyone; they just don't want religion involved in government at all, especially in a nation that continues to claim religious freedom. You are free to practice until it edges in to the public sector, not public in general.



Which is admirable, and precisely what most atheists want for themselves. Personally, I am just tired of trying to hide the fact that I am an atheist all the time out of fear of the judgments that will be placed on me as a result. You want to claim persecution as a Christian in a nation that sees atheism as a trait that would make a president a bad president over any other shortcoming. Where half of the nation believes an atheist cannot be a moral or ethical person. Who believe that atheists cannot have hope or a sense of meaning in their life. A lot of atheists are just tired of abuse and don't want to take it anymore.



Of course everyone can be. I meant my comment more to mean that your representation was overly stereotypical and hardly representative.



The only place I have personally seen that is a billboard that flat out said homosexuals are condemned to Hell, so join our therapy sessions to help you overcome. And I have seen Christian billboards and signs all over the place. The persecution of Christians is overblown and mostly mythical.



Just for the record, students can pray in public school. They can form prayer groups and Bible studies and lead Prayer at the Pole. It is teachers (who are authority figures) who are prohibited.



I know many, many atheists and have never ever heard this or anything even remotely similar.



IT is much different. Taking an oath based on saying so help me god when you do not believe in any god is making light of an oath that plenty of atheists would prefer to take very seriously and very personally. If it is just a word, then why are you so opposed to someone omitting it? I love my country (for all its flaws), but I do not love any gods. I would make many sacrifices for the good of my fellow citizens, but will not do it so help me god.



If you do not believe it that is your choice, but scientific fact is (and should be) taught regardless. Fact does not change for anyone, and plenty of Christians have no issue with evolution. Should we refrain from teaching geology because some don't believe what it says? Or refrain from teaching that we go around the sun? Or greenhouse gas? Or germ theory? Or electricity? Where do you draw the line?

^This

you seem to think i would be against allowing them all, but I'm not. it should be a option just like you use to be able to say no to your kid taking sex ed classes. going to school every day and having your teach tell you your beliefs are wrong and crazy is not cool. kids shouldn't be forced to do that day in and out like I did.

there are no theology classes though, they aren't allowed in schools. I am find with all religions you seem to have a stereotype in your head that Christians hate all other religions and that isn't true. how is having different classes for students forcing it on atheists? how about letting students op out of learning about evolution? its ok for Muslims to op out of food or stuff but not for Christians to say these subject violates my beliefs protected under the 1st amendment, so I don't want to listen to it?
I am not suggesting mandating teaching christian biased science to all, so just as you think the oath shouldn't be mandated then why can't you see the other side.


it can be a both. it doesn't have to be all or none, us or them. science and religion can and do coexist.


most I've seen on here seem to, same with those on youtbue and yahoo. saying Christians are the cause of all wars and genocide and death, is saying we are evil. ---->humans<--- regardless of what they think/believe do those things, they may use religion as the reason or maybe they use wanting more land, or maybe its to remove a religion as with the soviets. humans do bad things with or without reason. the crusades was against christian morals. they killed Christians too. they just wanted to kill and take land. and used it as a reason to get people to fight and an excuse to make the bad deed seem good. we likely havent seen the last of this. Hitler used the bible and christian stuff, but didn't believe in god. today its Islamic extremists abusing the koran and twisting its words to ok their killings.



what would such an oath say? "I swear to serve my nation" seems all that is needed to me. the president isn't our nation and he can go against it's interests.



again both can live together. if we teach the same basic thing but one teaches with religious tilt how is this wrong? we aren't talking about super Christians who take the bible literally word for word. I'm talking most christians/jews/muslims. I haven't seen the militant Christians. I do say 2-5 daily anti christian threads, I do see people posting about "if god abandoned them" turn into god and christian bashing. clearly if you don't believe, his thread wasn't for you but for other Christians. it shouldn't be taken as a chance to convert someone to atheism. they are troubled, upset. if someone is to convert to non religion or to religion it should be by their own at their own time. it is for this I don't agree with missionaries unless they just are there offering aid and a chance for people to explore the religion, if they are going door to door trying to convert I oppose that.




where where? i've never seen this, I do see how people are always saying religion can't you can't wear a shirt that says god or Jesus, or quotes verses. you have two beliefs here religious and evolution science. maybe neither should be taught. since both can violate others ideas and beliefs. the current system is evolution is forced on all and religion is banned. I view utter beleif in a big bang theory or evolution as just as religion. we have no facts of those yet they are taught and forced on those who disagree with it. It is tough going through public school as a religious person where the system is biased against you. imagine if it was the other way around you had to go to church daily for 12 years. not everyone is rich enough to go to private schools. and then whats my option catholic schools eww. I don't want to lectured all day for 12 years about how we are evil and going to hell either.



where I live I have to hid that i'm a christian. out of fear of judgments or being bashed. or lectured to. I fear i'd be fired from work if I was open about it. same with owning guns.
sterotyping much? are there those who would think that way yea, theres also lots who don't care.
see you see it just from what side. you don't see it from our side, how we are tired of the abuse too. it goes back in forth from both sides. its a never ending pointless war of hatred just without the violence we see in the middle east. though perhaps if we had the voilence it would be taken serious, perhaps if we had people being attacked and beheaded for their beliefs we could acknowledge both sides and try to bridge the gap and just get along with each other. though there were in the past where people were lined up asked if they believed in god then shot for saying yes. I don't remember which shooting that was.



I didn't say all blacks, just a lot think that. or at least the ones who actively make videos, post comments and such.



we cant' talk about it at schools, we can't wear religious clothes, we can't have time set aside for us to pray. there was a girl who had her bible taken away during free reading time because it was against class policy. so yeah its just myical cause you don't see it where you live so it doesn't happen on mass.
the only billboards i've seen are "do you know Jesus" and that was what they claimed was attacking them. other are just billboards saying the name of the church and its location/times of service.. i've never seen signs you talk about execpt those on carboad held up at a intersection by super christians/mormans/etc. I simply cross the street to avoid them.



wasn't allowed here, we had to go off school grounds often to churches. I live in a liberal left and atheist leaning area.
and why can't the teachers before class pray with students who choose to pray with them? why is that so horrible? why does a pastor have to come and sit across the street and have kids meet him there to pray?



well I have. they think believing in god will make you weaker in combat.




meh


it is a fact cause a bunch of peopl got together created a system and all agree it is. so if 1billion religious people did this and created another system. would it be fact?

facts change, science said the world was flat and that was fact until it changed. pluto use to be a planet too and that too was fact.
gravity is fact evolution is a theory that is constant worked on to prove. looking for missing link, trying to explore the galaxy to find signs etc. it should be up to the parents to decide what they get taught to force a kid to learn something that violates his religious beliefs is wrong. isn't that the point of the 1st amendment? or was it just for atheists ?

we have no problem with parts of evolution, we interrupt it slightly different then others. why aren't the amish forced to learn this too if it should be taught regardless. why are their beliefs protected but not modern Christians?

stereotyping again. the bible doesn't say any of that is false. I don't draw any line. let people learn what they want don't force your ideas on anyone. its so wrong to force ideas on people. the amish don't learn much of that stuff. yet no one gives a s**t. so our choice is to give up technology or be forced to learn s**t that violates our rights. does it hurt you if a kid skips the evolution part of science class? how so? do you get sick or something? "oh noes I feel sick to my stomach, some kid somewhere didn't get taught evolution"

That's an awful lot of options if you have to allow every relgion.Even Voo-Doo or Santeria? I guess you could lump the chicken sacrifices in with biology dissection."Hey,I just beheaded my chicken and it's still moving,why teacher,why.?
Can't wait till the kiddies get to celebrate Nov the first with Santa Muerte.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte
Everyone gets to celebrate by decorating the skeleton.A good anatomy lesson about the human skeletal system.Remember,if you let one religion in the door you have to allow them all,no matter how distasteful you find them.

I'm done, just waiting for this country to collapse. I hated school. i hated be forced to learn stuff that said my beliefs are craxy and I am stupid to believe them. if you can't see that cause you are atheist and had a good time its cause the system is built for you. people speak of white system or man system that well education is a atheist system that hurts those who disagree with it but forces them to go to it. you'd probably be pissed if it was the other way around and your kids were forced to go to a school where they taught them from the bible and if you didn't send them you can be arrested.

which is shame cause I liked science and space and i curious but i get so put off by the anti god s**t and being told I'm stupid or crazy.

I attended parochial and public schools.In one of them we spent an hour learning about Ellen G.White.I don't see how this has benefited me in any way.That time could have been better used.But since I was in a relgious school I just studied about her with everyone else. I don't remember anything except she suppose to be a prophet of some sorts.
When I went to The Catherdral school we got dragged into the Cathedral everyday for some sort of relgious ritual instead of being in class and actually learning something we could use later.
I don't think people can be arrested for homeschooling,some relgious people here do that.I homeschooled my kids a few years,not becuse of relgion but becuse the school sucked.
Did a teacher call you those things?That was uncalled for,your beliefs are yours and no one has a right to tell you that you are crazy or stupid.
Relgion just has no place being taught in public school,it's not going to help them get a job or plan a career.And the majority of teens don't want to hear about it anyway.If someone wants to pursue a belief system than it should be on their own time,not the schools.I see nothing wrong with giving students a quiet time where they could study,read ,meditate,nap or pray quietly in their heads,nothing stops you from doing that.If there is a God,I don't think you would have to be speaking out loud for them to hear you.Anyway,you are suppose to go into your closet and pray,Jesus said so.It may come as a surprise to you that I have read the bible completely and took a study course in it.I do live in the Bible Belt so I've had the bible thrown at me a lot,not literally.I also hated school,it was certainly not "built" for me,except for the library,nice and quiet with the book smell.

you can't just home school. you have to get approved, and teach the same stuff from the same books. at least here.
its not like you just take your kids out of school and teach them what you want. they even have you bring your kid in for regular tests every so often on the subjects. my sister did home school after having mono for months cause the school system refused to accept her back after missing so much school.

I don't like those types of Christians. I call them super Christians. I just worked with one of them for a month in july. it sucked a lot. according to what he said 97% of people are going to hell, so meh. smoke a cig and don't get a chance to repent before you died, hell. gay= hell, don't read bible and pray every day=hell. etc. he'd go on and on every day.

hes the onlyone i've ever met besides the ones at fairs or holding signs on road. most people are atheists here it seems. I know we have bunch of churches like most cities, but still most people i meet are atheists. but what do you expect in a left leaning city and state.

I don't say that atheists don't get hated on and stuff. but I've seen and got alot of hate from atheist. it bugs me when people just act like it doesn't happen and i'm making it up :'( also get hated on by the super Christians.