NT seeking advice on Aspie BF

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Deinonychus
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15 Sep 2014, 9:57 pm

elkclan wrote:
Jono

Wow your insight on speaking directly was so brilliant I had to turn way from the blinding light.

How much more direct is please turn the radio down? It is not under any circumstances a personal attack.

In that case you're not asking her to be more direct you're asking her to phrase every question as an ego stroking re-direct of his potential aggression.


You sound rather bitter and you clearly have never been on the flip side here being in a similar position to the man in this situation. I for one am very sensitive to shift in tones and tone of voice in general, but I also have great difficulty with recognizing what exactly is being implied within the tone. It's stressful stuff and many things that shouldn't feel like a direct attack on me end up feeling like just that. If you find it so hard to empathize with AS issues like this, then I don't see why you're here.

@OP Things like this are much easier to prevent than defuse, in my experience. I'm constantly finding myself offended by simple questions like "Have you seen where my ___ is?" because sometimes I misinterpret the tone as accusing. I do not blame the person asking me nor do I blame myself for this. It is a quick reaction where no time to stop and think is allotted and I get defensive instantly. I don't think it's fair to you to always feel like you're walking on eggshells, but at the same time if there are simple things you can try to change the situation, then I don't see the harm in doing so. I actually agree with Jono's advice in giving a reason with your request and seeing how that goes.

I will say that I highly doubt that admitting he isn't NT is going to change this situation/similar situations, because he still will be who he is after doing so. Autism isn't something you seek treatment for, deal with your issues, and then move on with your life. I will third the advice of seriously considering whether you'd like to continue this relationship.



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16 Sep 2014, 12:09 am

probably. if I remember right her husband is aspie and is troublesome. shes had post about it and wanting to maybe divorcee.
her and a few others seem to be a bit bitter towards aspie men cause of this and past relationships.

much like men with bad past relationships are a bit bitter against women. its not accepted as being bitter against male aspies is though.

I get why she would be though, but doesn't mean every guy is like that.

my mom tends to get defensive if you ask here where something is. she feels we are accusing her of moving or losing it.



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16 Sep 2014, 1:12 am

Maybe I am bitter. But the person who actually is acting in an aggressive manner has a greater responsibility for curbing the behaviour than the person who isn't. You need not necessarily blame yourself for interpreting things incorrectly, but you do have to take responsibility for reacting aggressively and defensively.

In the car trying to hear directions a driver should not suddenly havek to contend with not only a loud radio but a verbal attack. Not only is it abusive, it's dangerous. In a driving situation, a person may not have the time and space to phrase a question in a such a way.

You may not have control of how you perceive what's coming in, but you do have control of what's coming out. If you don't have control, you need to get control.

Have a moment of empathy for those on the receiving end of the aggression. You have misinterpret the tone and then actually interjected aggression. It's bewildering and hurtful. And the person on the receiving end hasn't misinterpreted things. It actually is a hostile tone, without the usual benefit of the doubt you'd extend to someone in a loving relationship.

(Getting used to typing on a touchpad. So many mistakes...sorry)



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16 Sep 2014, 5:29 am

elkclan wrote:
Jono

Wow your insight on speaking directly was so brilliant I had to turn way from the blinding light.

How much moe direct is please turn the radio down? It is not under any circumstances a personal attack.

In that case you're not asking her to be more direct you're asking her to phrase every question as an ego stroking re-direct of his potential aggression.

Screw that. She doesn't need that.

stop blaming the victim here. she should cut her losses and move on - hopefully reflecting on why she felt she needed to put up with that sort of behaviour. It's inexcusable.


Ego stroking! Wow! Holy s**t! If you had read absolutely anything about Asperger's and autism at all, you will know that people on the ASD spectrum do interpret things literally when spoken to them. He is not deliberately misunderstanding what she says to him, he is not deliberately getting angry or upset with her because of misunderstanding and miscommunication. To a large extent, it's just the way his mind works. Maybe in time, he'll get to understand her better, but that TAKES TIME.

Remember that other thread where I said that people like you have an absolute lack an absolute lack of empathy or there AS spouses and you thought that was unfair? I your post has just proven me absolutely right. You have absolutely no empathy whatsoever of the AS partner and are absolutely not willing to try to understand them. That's it. I'm done with you. So, SCREW YOU and have good day.

P.S. Funny how the original OP of this thread seems to of taken well to my advice and you haven't.



Last edited by Jono on 16 Sep 2014, 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jono
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16 Sep 2014, 5:41 am

elkclan wrote:
Maybe I am bitter. But the person who actually is acting in an aggressive manner has a greater responsibility for curbing the behaviour than the person who isn't. You need not necessarily blame yourself for interpreting things incorrectly, but you do have to take responsibility for reacting aggressively and defensively.

In the car trying to hear directions a driver should not suddenly havek to contend with not only a loud radio but a verbal attack. Not only is it abusive, it's dangerous. In a driving situation, a person may not have the time and space to phrase a question in a such a way.

You may not have control of how you perceive what's coming in, but you do have control of what's coming out. If you don't have control, you need to get control.

Have a moment of empathy for those on the receiving end of the aggression. You have misinterpret the tone and then actually interjected aggression. It's bewildering and hurtful. And the person on the receiving end hasn't misinterpreted things. It actually is a hostile tone, without the usual benefit of the doubt you'd extend to someone in a loving relationship.

(Getting used to typing on a touchpad. So many mistakes...sorry)


Another thing, I did not get from her post that he was aggressive towards her or that he's trying to coerce or control her. What I'm getting is that he's getting upset because of a perceived personal attack, perhaps due to miscommunication. She even says that it's a communication issue, that's a different thing.



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16 Sep 2014, 6:28 am

He has some kind of social phobia, AS may or may not be a cause of it.



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16 Sep 2014, 6:32 am

The following was originally posted in a blog post about sexual harassment, but it has a much wider application.

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter why the OP's boyfriend reacts badly to reasonable requests from her. What matters here is the effect his behaviour (the foot stepping) has on her.


"If you step on my foot, you need to get off my foot.
If you step on my foot without meaning to, you need to get off my foot.
If you step on my foot without realizing it, you need to get off my foot.
If everyone in your culture steps on feet, your culture is horrible, and you need to get off my foot.

If you have foot-stepping disease, and it makes you unaware you?re stepping on feet, you need to get off my foot.
If an event has rules designed to keep people from stepping on feet, you need to follow them.
If you think that even with the rules, you won?t be able to avoid stepping on people?s feet, absent yourself from the event until you work something out.

If you?re a serial foot-stepper, and you feel you?re entitled to step on people?s feet because you?re just that awesome and they?re not really people anyway, you?re a bad person and you don?t get to use any of those excuses, limited as they are.

And moreover, you need to get off my foot."


And this is the original blogger's explanatory comment at the end.

"See, that?s why I don?t get the focus on classifying harassers and figuring out their motives. The victims are just as harassed either way."

And Jono, when someone consistently acts negatively, aggressively, antagonistically towards everyday comments, questions and actions, then they are being abusive and controlling.



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16 Sep 2014, 6:35 am

Marcia wrote:
And Jono, when someone consistently acts negatively, aggressively, antagonistically towards everyday comments, questions and actions, then they are being abusive and controlling.


It's not aggressiveness. So, are you telling me that if I say something to that is a personal attack or what you perceive to be a personal attack and you get upset over it, then being upset is itself abusive. I can say anything I like to you but if it upsets you, then you're being abusive apparently. This is exactly what you're saying, according to your logic.

Oh and we're talking about sexual harassment here, so your post is irrelevant. Yes, I understand what you're saying but it doesn't apply here, this is just a miscommunication issue, all couples have arguments and I don't see her saying that he's controlling, just that he get's upset. All couples have arguments, all couple have fights and all couples have their disagreements. I have not seen any evidence that the arguments here are really any different from the arguments in normal relationships including the ones in NT/NT relationships, only that some of them stem from miscommunication. Just because there are some arguments in a relationship it doesn't follow that they're abusive.



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16 Sep 2014, 8:02 am

Jono wrote:
Marcia wrote:
And Jono, when someone consistently acts negatively, aggressively, antagonistically towards everyday comments, questions and actions, then they are being abusive and controlling.


It's not aggressiveness. So, are you telling me that if I say something to that is a personal attack or what you perceive to be a personal attack and you get upset over it, then being upset is itself abusive. I can say anything I like to you but if it upsets you, then you're being abusive apparently. This is exactly what you're saying, according to your logic.


I think this might just be a situation where NTs aren't able to truly understand. There is no way for you to know that you've misinterpreted what's being said in the moment, so I don't see how getting defensive/offended is uncalled for. I don't really like how this guy is getting labeled as abusive and controlling, because I didn't read in OP's posts that he was verbally assaulting her after being upset- that would be wrong no matter if he felt attacked!



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16 Sep 2014, 9:16 am

Elkclan... I have no idea why you feel justified in being rude to everyone you disagree with. If you want to help people, don't start painting us all with the same brush. And certainly don't treat everyone else like they are wrong for disagreeing with you. I'm out too

Op. Best of luck, and I hope things find its way of working out here for you.


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16 Sep 2014, 12:29 pm

This just sounds exhausting. It sounds exhausting for you and him individually and as a couple. If he doesn't want to go into therapy [and I haven't quite gotten if you have specifically addressed that head on or just had that impression from talking around the subject], perhaps you can go together. And I would say therapy not because he needs to adjust for other people and that is the root reason to go to therapy. The primary reason is he sounds really miserable- someone here [I think it was Boo. Sorry if that's wrong] said it sounded like he has anxiety. I had that idea as well. I have pretty bad OCD and sometimes I used to wildly misinterpret things. I would realize it later on, but it wasn't until we solidified the Pure O diagnosis and actively began working on that that I could assess my responses better. But if he doesn't want to actively seek help, he will likely be this miserable [in terms of interaction because he is grossly misinterpreting toward the end of constant expectation of criticism and attack] for a really long time.

And you can't be expected to pick up all that and try to make it work on your own.
Whether he is or is not Asperger's, in my opinion, likely plays into it to some degree. But as some one who experiences a significant anxiety disorder I have an idea that may be a big part of the issue as well? It's just an idea.

But no matter how you slice it, you really can't be expected to hold up the anxieties and worries of two people through out a relationship. [With you both curbing what you are saying/trying to be mindful of how you are saying things AND having to reassure after what you say has been perceived as something else] It's just not reasonable and also not likely to be very successful.


mollyk wrote:
My boyfriend is a 25 year old Aspie and is over all a wonderful person. He is the kind of man I have always wanted and holds many qualities I have sought out in a partner. He is everything I have ever wanted and have really enjoyed our relationship (a little over five months) up to this point. When we first started dating I never would have guessed he was not NT until our first fight when things got really out of hand quickly. I have a BA in psychology with a social work minor and work in a field where I deal with communicating with people on all different levels with a wide range of issues and take pride in knowing I'm a pretty good communicator. It's my job and I do it well as I have in previous relationships. But, things with Seth were very difficult and it wasn't until meeting his mom and her sharing with me what he chose not to that I understood why we had such a big miscommunication problem.

Basically, it boils down to this. We often go throughout the day in normal conversation and for whatever reason I will say something (in a very normal tone of voice with no hidden intentions) and he will hear it in a completely different way. Things like "will you turn down the radio" turn into a huge ordeal where he thinks I have majorly disrespected him or don't like his choice of music or said it with an attitude when I know I didn't. I simply asked for the radio to be turned down so I could hear the driving directions being given to me by his friend in the back seat. 99% of our fights stem from something like this where a look or tone is mistaken and it turns into a big ugly ordeal. I feel like I'm constantly apologizing for something I didn't do to try and calm him down and I NEVER see most of the confrontations coming. He also refuses to acknowledge the fact he is the way he is and does interpret things differently and somehow always turns the issue back around on me. It's exhausting. I love him so much and have been really patient through these situations (even his mom agrees) but our relationship has gotten really strained by it and he keeps wanting to break up over the fact he thinks I'm disrespectful to him and he really is NT when he's not. I don't know what to do anymore or who to go to. I love him dearly and want this to work more than anything but don't know how to handle these issues or defuse them.

PLEASE HELP


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16 Sep 2014, 12:38 pm

SignOfLazarus wrote:
This just sounds exhausting. It sounds exhausting for you and him individually and as a couple. If he doesn't want to go into therapy [and I haven't quite gotten if you have specifically addressed that head on or just had that impression from talking around the subject], perhaps you can go together. And I would say therapy not because he needs to adjust for other people and that is the root reason to go to therapy. The primary reason is he sounds really miserable- someone here [I think it was Boo. Sorry if that's wrong] said it sounded like he has anxiety. I had that idea as well. I have pretty bad OCD and sometimes I used to wildly misinterpret things. I would realize it later on, but it wasn't until we solidified the Pure O diagnosis and actively began working on that that I could assess my responses better. But if he doesn't want to actively seek help, he will likely be this miserable [in terms of interaction because he is grossly misinterpreting toward the end of constant expectation of criticism and attack] for a really long time.

And you can't be expected to pick up all that and try to make it work on your own.
Whether he is or is not Asperger's, in my opinion, likely plays into it to some degree. But as some one who experiences a significant anxiety disorder I have an idea that may be a big part of the issue as well? It's just an idea.

But no matter how you slice it, you really can't be expected to hold up the anxieties and worries of two people through out a relationship. [With you both curbing what you are saying/trying to be mindful of how you are saying things AND having to reassure after what you say has been perceived as something else] It's just not reasonable and also not likely to be very successful.


mollyk wrote:
My boyfriend is a 25 year old Aspie and is over all a wonderful person. He is the kind of man I have always wanted and holds many qualities I have sought out in a partner. He is everything I have ever wanted and have really enjoyed our relationship (a little over five months) up to this point. When we first started dating I never would have guessed he was not NT until our first fight when things got really out of hand quickly. I have a BA in psychology with a social work minor and work in a field where I deal with communicating with people on all different levels with a wide range of issues and take pride in knowing I'm a pretty good communicator. It's my job and I do it well as I have in previous relationships. But, things with Seth were very difficult and it wasn't until meeting his mom and her sharing with me what he chose not to that I understood why we had such a big miscommunication problem.

Basically, it boils down to this. We often go throughout the day in normal conversation and for whatever reason I will say something (in a very normal tone of voice with no hidden intentions) and he will hear it in a completely different way. Things like "will you turn down the radio" turn into a huge ordeal where he thinks I have majorly disrespected him or don't like his choice of music or said it with an attitude when I know I didn't. I simply asked for the radio to be turned down so I could hear the driving directions being given to me by his friend in the back seat. 99% of our fights stem from something like this where a look or tone is mistaken and it turns into a big ugly ordeal. I feel like I'm constantly apologizing for something I didn't do to try and calm him down and I NEVER see most of the confrontations coming. He also refuses to acknowledge the fact he is the way he is and does interpret things differently and somehow always turns the issue back around on me. It's exhausting. I love him so much and have been really patient through these situations (even his mom agrees) but our relationship has gotten really strained by it and he keeps wanting to break up over the fact he thinks I'm disrespectful to him and he really is NT when he's not. I don't know what to do anymore or who to go to. I love him dearly and want this to work more than anything but don't know how to handle these issues or defuse them.

PLEASE HELP


I think that she said that she thought it was Asperger's but that he doesn't have an official diagnosis. There could be anxiety but it looks to me like he misinterprets some speech as well and from what she's written, I suspect that he does have AS. I think that he needs to get an official diagnosis and possibly get some therapy and treatment for it in the long term.



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16 Sep 2014, 3:06 pm

To the OP. It seems to me almost irrelevant whether your boyfriend has Asperger's, anxiety or some other reason for this interpersonal sensitivity (personality disorder?). What matters is that you are in a relationship whereby he is taking no responsibility for the upset he is causing. Indeed, you have already acknowledged this yourself.

What he needs to do is go away and have a good think about whether he wants to change this situation. It does not necessarily require professional help (although that is an option). Acknowledging differences and to a degree, faults, then choosing to work on them is crucial in any successful relationship. It sounds like now is the time to start doing so, or he'll be loosing out.



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16 Sep 2014, 5:28 pm

Shodan wrote:
To the OP. It seems to me almost irrelevant whether your boyfriend has Asperger's, anxiety or some other reason for this interpersonal sensitivity (personality disorder?). What matters is that you are in a relationship whereby he is taking no responsibility for the upset he is causing. Indeed, you have already acknowledged this yourself.

What he needs to do is go away and have a good think about whether he wants to change this situation. It does not necessarily require professional help (although that is an option). Acknowledging differences and to a degree, faults, then choosing to work on them is crucial in any successful relationship. It sounds like now is the time to start doing so, or he'll be loosing out.


I think that the issue is that he's undiagnosed, so I'm not sure that he wants to or is ready to accept that he's different. That's why I suggested that he needs to get an official diagnosis. However, from what she said, I think that he does realise how his behaviour impacts others.

I don't think the OP will be posting back here, I think we've scared her off. I'm still a bit hot under the collar about my advice being called "victim blaming" and him being painted as an "abuser" when he's not. I've tried to get hold of the mods about this and I haven't heard back from them.



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16 Sep 2014, 6:01 pm

Jono wrote:
I don't think the OP will be posting back here, I think we've scared her off...


yeah, possible.


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16 Sep 2014, 6:47 pm

Going by the OP's last post she found this thread helpful and has come to her own conclusions and decisions about the relationship.