Jacoby
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
29 Sep 2014, 12:32 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Sep 2014, 12:46 am
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
But none of that is the reason why certain people want to secede. It has to do with the "evils of socialism" - that is, caring for people who can't care for themselves, just because Limbaugh and Fox tell them caring for the needy is bad. And it's about gay rights - people have to tolerate those horrible sinners having civil rights. And it's about the feds fighting against disenfranchisement of African American voters. And most of all, it's about the President being black - though most of them won't admit that publicly.
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
29 Sep 2014, 1:25 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
But none of that is the reason why certain people want to secede. It has to do with the "evils of socialism" - that is, caring for people who can't care for themselves, just because Limbaugh and Fox tell them caring for the needy is bad. And it's about gay rights - people have to tolerate those horrible sinners having civil rights. And it's about the feds fighting against disenfranchisement of African American voters. And most of all, it's about the President being black - though most of them won't admit that publicly.
oh glad you can speak for all of them
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Sep 2014, 1:57 am
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
But none of that is the reason why certain people want to secede. It has to do with the "evils of socialism" - that is, caring for people who can't care for themselves, just because Limbaugh and Fox tell them caring for the needy is bad. And it's about gay rights - people have to tolerate those horrible sinners having civil rights. And it's about the feds fighting against disenfranchisement of African American voters. And most of all, it's about the President being black - though most of them won't admit that publicly.
oh glad you can speak for all of them
So far, those are the only ones with those opinions who want to secede. Real Americans would rather stay with their country and try to make it better.
30 Sep 2014, 1:31 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
30 Sep 2014, 3:41 pm
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Obama has been president 5 going on 6 years and his supporters still find use of blaming Bush. Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING he does, he has doubled down on every Bush policy, there is no real difference between them, yet "b-b-b-but BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" is still the main defense people use in defending him as if that somehow resolves him of blame. You are stuck in this fake duopoly of American politics, they're two sides of the same coin. Who cares who started what? It didn't start with Bush either, it has been going on much long, he is just the one that acted most offensively up until that point, all of which has seemed to be normalized now. Hitler wasn't the first one to start hating Jews in Germany.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Sep 2014, 3:48 pm
Jacoby wrote:
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Obama has been president 5 going on 6 years and his supporters still find use of blaming Bush. Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING he does, he has doubled down on every Bush policy, there is no real difference between them, yet "b-b-b-but BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" is still the main defense people use in defending him as if that somehow resolves him of blame. You are stuck in this fake duopoly of American politics, they're two sides of the same coin. Who cares who started what? It didn't start with Bush either, it has been going on much long, he is just the one that acted most offensively up until that point, all of which has seemed to be normalized now. Hitler wasn't the first one to start hating Jews in Germany.
ScrewyWabbit wasn't trying to justify Obama's policies, but was simply pointing out how the people who complain the loudest about those policies didn't complain when it was Bush doing it. For them, it's the complexion of things.
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
30 Sep 2014, 4:37 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Obama has been president 5 going on 6 years and his supporters still find use of blaming Bush. Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING he does, he has doubled down on every Bush policy, there is no real difference between them, yet "b-b-b-but BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" is still the main defense people use in defending him as if that somehow resolves him of blame. You are stuck in this fake duopoly of American politics, they're two sides of the same coin. Who cares who started what? It didn't start with Bush either, it has been going on much long, he is just the one that acted most offensively up until that point, all of which has seemed to be normalized now. Hitler wasn't the first one to start hating Jews in Germany.
ScrewyWabbit wasn't trying to justify Obama's policies, but was simply pointing out how the people who complain the loudest about those policies didn't complain when it was Bush doing it. For them, it's the complexion of things.
It goes in the reverse as well, I think an even starker contrast is how so called liberals seemingly forgot their anti-war/pro-civil liberties/pro-rule of law positions which propelled them into power the second their man took office. Partisan politics is a joke that way and most people are seemingly stupid, there are many people that have consistently stood up for these principles only to be droned out by some lying partisan Johnny-come-lately who inevitably sells them out. The videos I posted of Bush and Cheney on this thread are perfect examples, Obama is no different from them.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Sep 2014, 7:07 pm
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Obama has been president 5 going on 6 years and his supporters still find use of blaming Bush. Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING he does, he has doubled down on every Bush policy, there is no real difference between them, yet "b-b-b-but BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" is still the main defense people use in defending him as if that somehow resolves him of blame. You are stuck in this fake duopoly of American politics, they're two sides of the same coin. Who cares who started what? It didn't start with Bush either, it has been going on much long, he is just the one that acted most offensively up until that point, all of which has seemed to be normalized now. Hitler wasn't the first one to start hating Jews in Germany.
ScrewyWabbit wasn't trying to justify Obama's policies, but was simply pointing out how the people who complain the loudest about those policies didn't complain when it was Bush doing it. For them, it's the complexion of things.
It goes in the reverse as well, I think an even starker contrast is how so called liberals seemingly forgot their anti-war/pro-civil liberties/pro-rule of law positions which propelled them into power the second their man took office. Partisan politics is a joke that way and most people are seemingly stupid, there are many people that have consistently stood up for these principles only to be droned out by some lying partisan Johnny-come-lately who inevitably sells them out. The videos I posted of Bush and Cheney on this thread are perfect examples, Obama is no different from them.
When I said it was the complexion of the thing, I was implying that Obama's critics who so easily dismissed Bush do so because of the President's race and color. But I agree, we liberals should be less tolerant of Obama's abuses of civil liberties and such - - but hardly to the point of advocating secession.
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
30 Sep 2014, 7:59 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
Yikes. Most people who are unhappy now were perfectly happy with all of those things when Bush was doing them.
Enslaving us into debt? Its not like the debt did not skyrocket under Bush after it had started being reduced under Clinton. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Spying on its own citizens? Most of that was started under Bush.
Prosecuting whistle blowers? How about abusing political power to seek retribution against them? See: Plame, Valerie (among others).
Waging illegal war? Uh, that one doesn't even deserve a response.
Obama has been president 5 going on 6 years and his supporters still find use of blaming Bush. Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING he does, he has doubled down on every Bush policy, there is no real difference between them, yet "b-b-b-but BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" is still the main defense people use in defending him as if that somehow resolves him of blame. You are stuck in this fake duopoly of American politics, they're two sides of the same coin. Who cares who started what? It didn't start with Bush either, it has been going on much long, he is just the one that acted most offensively up until that point, all of which has seemed to be normalized now. Hitler wasn't the first one to start hating Jews in Germany.
ScrewyWabbit wasn't trying to justify Obama's policies, but was simply pointing out how the people who complain the loudest about those policies didn't complain when it was Bush doing it. For them, it's the complexion of things.
It goes in the reverse as well, I think an even starker contrast is how so called liberals seemingly forgot their anti-war/pro-civil liberties/pro-rule of law positions which propelled them into power the second their man took office. Partisan politics is a joke that way and most people are seemingly stupid, there are many people that have consistently stood up for these principles only to be droned out by some lying partisan Johnny-come-lately who inevitably sells them out. The videos I posted of Bush and Cheney on this thread are perfect examples, Obama is no different from them.
When I said it was the complexion of the thing, I was implying that Obama's critics who so easily dismissed Bush do so because of the President's race and color. But I agree, we liberals should be less tolerant of Obama's abuses of civil liberties and such - - but hardly to the point of advocating secession.
Obama's supporters dismiss almost all criticism as racism. Likewise, most will seamlessly transition into quashing dissent against Hilary by labeling it misogynist. It is basically racial McCarthyism. Do you really believe he would be judged any less harshly if he were white?
As for secession there is nobody seriously talking about it, what we have today is no different that what we had during the Bush administration. What do you think the Jesusland/United States of Canada maps were advocating?
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Sep 2014, 8:51 pm
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,461
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
30 Sep 2014, 9:32 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
But none of that is the reason why certain people want to secede. It has to do with the "evils of socialism" - that is, caring for people who can't care for themselves, just because Limbaugh and Fox tell them caring for the needy is bad. And it's about gay rights - people have to tolerate those horrible sinners having civil rights. And it's about the feds fighting against disenfranchisement of African American voters. And most of all, it's about the President being black - though most of them won't admit that publicly.
oh glad you can speak for all of them
So far, those are the only ones with those opinions who want to secede. Real Americans would rather stay with their country and try to make it better.
How do we make it better though?
I mean people can vote all they want but it doesn't seem to be changing the course of things or creating any real improvements in the way things are. Either way I don't hold much of those views you mention but I really dislike the federal government so I would not be opposed to the idea of not being a part of that anymore, though my state government isn't the greatest either....
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Sep 2014, 10:25 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
AntDog wrote:
That's a 2% increase from similar polls in 2012. The South, breadbasket, and mountains are getting increasingly tired of Washington's ever increasing grab of powers that should be left to the states.
What like providing healthcare to those citizens too poor or disabled to get coverage, or for defending the rights of ethnic or sexual minorities? Yeah, that evil, intrusive federal government looking out for people who those red states won't look out for!
how about enslaving us into debt, spying its own citizens, prosecuting whistle blowers, and waging illegal war?
As a big part of that list had happened under Bush's administration, the Obama haters wanting to secede usually don't complain about that - or imagine it was all Obama's doing.
Besides, that list of government offenses don't include disrespecting states rights, which is supposed to justify secession..
Obama has double down on all those, you can't blame Bush. He's is an awful president.
But none of that is the reason why certain people want to secede. It has to do with the "evils of socialism" - that is, caring for people who can't care for themselves, just because Limbaugh and Fox tell them caring for the needy is bad. And it's about gay rights - people have to tolerate those horrible sinners having civil rights. And it's about the feds fighting against disenfranchisement of African American voters. And most of all, it's about the President being black - though most of them won't admit that publicly.
oh glad you can speak for all of them
So far, those are the only ones with those opinions who want to secede. Real Americans would rather stay with their country and try to make it better.
How do we make it better though?
I mean people can vote all they want but it doesn't seem to be changing the course of things or creating any real improvements in the way things are. Either way I don't hold much of those views you mention but I really dislike the federal government so I would not be opposed to the idea of not being a part of that anymore, though my state government isn't the greatest either....I'd think change might occur through political activism with enough like minded people - it certainly worked for the civil rights movement, which was composed mostly of people who were treated as second class citizens in all walks of life.
Last edited by Kraichgauer on 30 Sep 2014, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jacoby
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
30 Sep 2014, 10:26 pm
30 Sep 2014, 10:31 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Sep 2014, 10:45 pm
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