26 Sep 2014, 3:04 pm
26 Sep 2014, 3:35 pm
26 Sep 2014, 3:54 pm
26 Sep 2014, 3:57 pm
DW_a_mom wrote:
calstar2 wrote:
I hate when people, even more when these people are also on the spectrum, like to pretend that all people with high-functioning autism are angelic beings who cannot tell lies or so much as hurt a fly. To be honest, I think the people that believe this tend to be so self-unaware and somewhat in denial. I would like to clarify that I'm 100% talking about people on the higher end of the spectrum.
I can and do manipulate; I know other on the spectrum who can and do manipulate. Everybody manipulates even if their intentions are not harmful. I manipulate to get my feelings across in a way that I'm capable of doing so and in a way that I know they will directly be addressed by the other person whom I want to acknowledge them. Actually, for me, manipulation always comes from a place where I am unable to effectively communicate but I need to get my needs met.
I can and do manipulate; I know other on the spectrum who can and do manipulate. Everybody manipulates even if their intentions are not harmful. I manipulate to get my feelings across in a way that I'm capable of doing so and in a way that I know they will directly be addressed by the other person whom I want to acknowledge them. Actually, for me, manipulation always comes from a place where I am unable to effectively communicate but I need to get my needs met.
But if you are anything like my son and the other kids talked about on the parenting board, your attempts to manipulate are usually quite transparent and, thus, not likely to have a negative result. We usually kind of know what you are doing and (with experience) even, sometimes, why you are doing it
Sure ASD kids can lie, as well, but there are clear differences in the why and how of it, and many things NT parents think are lies most definitely are not.
What you want from people is for them to see each action CORRECTLY, the same way you intended it, and that is a huge problem for the NT population, which tends to interpret things very differently. It is a much better default to assume no harm intended, than to continuously assume harm when none was meant. The later is the problem more often than not when the NT-ASD communication differences play out in real life. So, we spend a lot of time getting people to drop that; it is really important for advancing communication.
Okay, thank you for putting this into perspective for me a bit. I will definitely admit that I very rarely get away with my lies if the person knows me well in the slightest and, indeed, my attempts to get my needs met are very transparent. I am not a cunning individual by any means. I guess I just get frustrated when people don't seem to acknowledge the "If you know one autistic, then you know one autistic" saying. I probably messed up that saying, but ah well.
26 Sep 2014, 4:31 pm
weloveautism wrote:
You are so sweet 
manipulating indicates intent, so you actually lied about the popcorn, and indeed you manipulated the clock, but we are talking about manipulating a person, to their detriment, and not an object I am pretty sure you manipulated the clock in the sense of actually handling it physically, without deliberately wishing your mother to have a bad time by leaving sooner this is the difference: offering a specific behavior in order to get what you want, while you having what you want is detrimental to the other person, and you are fully aware of what you are doing before you start doing it, and of the detrimental outcome to them
And autistic people just can not keep up with all the moving parts of this type of situation, which is actually a wonderful thing, IMO
Also, IMO, manipulating involves success, otherwise we can call it trying to manipulate
There is the difference in the intention: when neurotypical people manipulate, they usually intend to get what they want at the cost of another person, while autistic people might try to manipulate our way out of a situation because we feel uncomfortable in it (and yes, boredom is uncomfortable for autistic people), without intent for another person to have a detrimental outcome as a result of our actions we are self-oriented in this perfect way that we can't get away with it: either we try it, and we don't succeed, or succeed by chance, but in either case there is no deliberate "malicious intent" towards another person, or we actually try it, and succeed, and then we feel guilty about what we did, and its implications, and never do it again because of how horrible we felt about it.
I personally have never tried it, because if I need to manipulate someone to get something I would rather not have it, or not have the relationship - there is no value for me, or the other person in such a situation.
I believe the "problem" here is the lack of an autistic equivalent to manipulating, something that would be defined as "I am going to offer a specific behavior to get out of a situation, or to get what I want, but to no one's detriment" Also, "to get what I want" automatically implies to no one's detriment
manipulating indicates intent, so you actually lied about the popcorn, and indeed you manipulated the clock, but we are talking about manipulating a person, to their detriment, and not an object I am pretty sure you manipulated the clock in the sense of actually handling it physically, without deliberately wishing your mother to have a bad time by leaving sooner this is the difference: offering a specific behavior in order to get what you want, while you having what you want is detrimental to the other person, and you are fully aware of what you are doing before you start doing it, and of the detrimental outcome to them And autistic people just can not keep up with all the moving parts of this type of situation, which is actually a wonderful thing, IMO
Also, IMO, manipulating involves success, otherwise we can call it trying to manipulate
There is the difference in the intention: when neurotypical people manipulate, they usually intend to get what they want at the cost of another person, while autistic people might try to manipulate our way out of a situation because we feel uncomfortable in it (and yes, boredom is uncomfortable for autistic people), without intent for another person to have a detrimental outcome as a result of our actions
we are self-oriented in this perfect way that we can't get away with it: either we try it, and we don't succeed, or succeed by chance, but in either case there is no deliberate "malicious intent" towards another person, or we actually try it, and succeed, and then we feel guilty about what we did, and its implications, and never do it again because of how horrible we felt about it. I personally have never tried it, because if I need to manipulate someone to get something I would rather not have it, or not have the relationship - there is no value for me, or the other person in such a situation.
I believe the "problem" here is the lack of an autistic equivalent to manipulating, something that would be defined as "I am going to offer a specific behavior to get out of a situation, or to get what I want, but to no one's detriment"
Also, "to get what I want" automatically implies to no one's detriment I once decided to be Angelica Pickles when my brother and I were at the doctor appointment for our shot. While my mom was in the office, I started to tell my brother tey were going to kill him with the shot and he didn't believe me. So I kept on telling him about it trying to get him to believe me and then my name was called and I got my shot and then my brother got his and boy was I surprised when he was cared and actually cried as he got his shot because he thought he was dying. I was shocked he actually bought it and I felt bad because i got punished. I was not allowed a snack at Starbucks and my brother was. What was I trying to get out of this game? I don't know, I just wanted him to believe me and I didn't really want anything in return. But I never did it again. Angelica is a manipulative character.
About the clock thing, I just wanted to leave my great grandmother's apartment, that was what I wanted. It was nothing about my mother or anyone else. I got what I wanted. I thought that was what manipulation is, getting what you want by trying to trick people and I did trick my mother. My mom found out later I did it because I can remember her telling me in her parents kitchen "Beth you tricked me, moving the time forward on my watch at your Great grandma's."
I guess the person has to be hurt for it to be manipulation like the time my wallet was stolen because some guy tricked me? But when I manipulated my husband to cum, that wasn't real manipulation because there was no harm for him? Or the time some lady manipulated me when her son rear ended my car so the harm she did was to get her way out of getting in trouble probably because she had no insurance and she was breaking the law? Plus I was ignorant about the law about anyone who rear ends you in our state is always at fault. Perhaps if I had known that, she may not have been able to manipulate me making me think she could sue me when really they were at fault. But the stuff she had, tape recorder, camera, it was as if she had it all planned. Maybe she did if she had no insurance and she had that stuff for just in case.
I don't even try to manipulate people that could harm them or hurt them in a emotional way. I don't see that as the same as not being able to because I am choosing to not try. This sounds like something a sociopath would do. I don't know any NT who would unless they were a sociopath or a dishonest person like that guy was who took my wallet. My husband said he was just a thief so all he wanted was money. He didn't want my identity or that one woman who took advantage about the car incident, she just didn't want to get in trouble with the law or have her son get in trouble. Maybe he was driving without his license or maybe she didn't have him on her insurance.
26 Sep 2014, 5:23 pm
26 Sep 2014, 6:57 pm
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,465
Location: Long Island, New York
26 Sep 2014, 7:20 pm
26 Sep 2014, 7:35 pm
26 Sep 2014, 11:45 pm
27 Sep 2014, 2:40 am
27 Sep 2014, 2:43 am
27 Sep 2014, 2:51 am
weloveautism wrote:
I am experiencing a lot of problems using this site, I am already separating my text with "Enter" in the reply area, but it does not apply when I press "submit", I obviously tried some sort of code equivalent to "enter" - you can see it does not work. Can anyone please tell me how to apply "Enter" in the reply area, that will remain "Enter" once I have submitted the reply? Thank you
A single blank line in between what would be paragraphs of text is usually how things are broken up on this site. There really aren't any formatting options.
27 Sep 2014, 4:13 am
27 Sep 2014, 6:11 am
27 Sep 2014, 6:22 am
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| What do people expect people of a certain age to look like? |
29 Feb 2024, 9:19 pm |
| Any linux people can help me? |
16 Feb 2024, 10:05 am |
| Do They Think People Are Thick? |
21 Feb 2024, 5:40 pm |
| How to comfort people |
07 Feb 2024, 2:06 am |
