'Why do we need to march for climate change?'

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Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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01 Oct 2014, 1:38 am

The relevant part of the video starts at 2 min + 45 seconds

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/8q3nmm/burn-noticed

The scientist being interviewed by the panel answers questions on topics like:

At what point does CO2 in the air actually become poisonous to humans, how can we trust the findings of climate scientists if their careers were have been built on studies that support the idea of global warming, what's the big deal if sea levels only rise less than 10 ft, why would melting icebergs cause sea levels to rise if ice does not expand when it melts.



LoveNotHate
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01 Oct 2014, 2:24 am

March for what ? What do you want changed?

-Less people driving cars ? We can't, because we immigrate a million + people / yr, so car ownership and car pollution will keep increasing. American culture is setup for people to drive to work, so not owning would make life very difficult.

-More tax on gas ? That hurts poor Americans the most, and Americans go ballistic when gas prices go up.

-Limit the energy Americans use from power companies, so less coal is burned? Immigration means we have more homes, more people using resources, so we have ever greater energy needs.

-Alternate Energies? Do electric cars even lower CO2 output since the power plants have to burn coal to supply the electricity they use ? Solar panels / Windmills / Green Energy Efficiencies don't seem like they would put much of any dent in power consumption to offset the energy needs of million + immigrants / yr.



shutterbug55
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01 Oct 2014, 11:08 am

Climate Change? First if you believe in that, the problem will take care of it's self in a few decades. We will run out of fossil fuels and the problem will be solved for us. We will be forced to find a newer cheap source of energy. Or we will start living in caves again.

I remember hearing about global cooling (1970's), then we heard about global warming (2000's) and climate change (2010's) from the same scientists. Remember they are all unproven theories. In the case of global cooling, there is plenty of empirical evidence they were wrong.

Global warming was on it's way to being de-bunked because of falsified data, emails describing how to set up rigged experiments, misplaced sensors, and the list goes on. The theory has an almost religious following, which instantly makes me wary. Especially after the news agencies picked it up and beat the drums every day with a new article.

Another inconvenient truth about the theory of global warming was it has never withstood an independent peer review. You are all aware of the scientific method? Why wasn't it applied to this theory?

They changed the name from global warming to climate change. That was a political move, because they were having a hard time selling global warming to the masses, when the mid west was frozen until April. Now any time a tornado touches down or a hurricane blows over the climate change people can point and say "SEE!?!" "Climate Change!" Have the weather events been getting stronger? Yes. Have they ever been this strong? Yes. In the early 1900's there were hurricanes and tornadoes. BIG ones. They didn't kill as many people, or destroy as much property as now, because there weren't as many people and developed land. Nor were there satellites and radar and instant news coverage.

Politics and science have always been strange bedfellows and this pairing allowed for some very interesting "solutions". Most of those solutions were schemes to relieve us of our money and line the pockets of the proponents of Carbon Credits. They were successful in getting a whole bunch of people to support this idea. They won't let up, until they have figured out how to tax the very air we breathe.

Do we have an effect on the climate? Yes. Is it going to tip the world into another ice age or another Precambrian age? Very Doubtful. Look at the amount of energy we are releasing every day. Add it up over the last 125 years. It is still a fraction of the amount of energy released by the earth itself just this year. Could we do better on environmental issues? Yes.

Does shutterbug believe in climate change? No. Climate change is an unproven theory. Prove it, then I won't have to believe in it. Quantify it and we can see if there is a problem that needs a solution. Right now there are lots of solutions looking for a problem.

IMHO


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The_Walrus
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01 Oct 2014, 11:56 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
March for what ? What do you want changed?

-Less people driving cars ? We can't, because we immigrate a million + people / yr, so car ownership and car pollution will keep increasing. American culture is setup for people to drive to work, so not owning would make life very difficult.

-More tax on gas ? That hurts poor Americans the most, and Americans go ballistic when gas prices go up.

-Limit the energy Americans use from power companies, so less coal is burned? Immigration means we have more homes, more people using resources, so we have ever greater energy needs.

-Alternate Energies? Do electric cars even lower CO2 output since the power plants have to burn coal to supply the electricity they use ? Solar panels / Windmills / Green Energy Efficiencies don't seem like they would put much of any dent in power consumption to offset the energy needs of million + immigrants / yr.

Blaming immigrants for climate change is totally idiotic. If you're going to blame anyone, blame babies. Immigrants don't appear out of nowhere.

Alternative energy is the thing. Electric cars (or hydrogen fuel cell cars) lower greenhouse gas emissions if the electricity is not generated from fossil fuels. They might not seem like they'd do much good to the uninformed. Carbon neutrality is a realistic goal in areas with renewable energy resources or feasible nuclear reactor spots, and Carbon Capture can be used if any areas cannot be served by renewable energy (this is also carbon neutral but doesn't deal with other pollutants).



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01 Oct 2014, 12:03 pm

shutterbug55 wrote:
Another inconvenient truth about the theory of global warming was it has never withstood an independent peer review. You are all aware of the scientific method? Why wasn't it applied to this theory?

It was.

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article

shutterbug55 wrote:
They changed the name from global warming to climate change.

No, they didn't.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6268931 ... t=#6268931



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01 Oct 2014, 1:06 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Blaming immigrants for climate change is totally idiotic.


I stated the obvious. If you keep bringing in huge numbers of people, then you should not expect stability, rather, you should expect greater use of cars, homes, energy, and greater pollution.

The_Walrus wrote:
If you're going to blame anyone, blame babies. Immigrants don't appear out of nowhere.


"Babies" in the US should be "blamed", because they are already part of the US, and the questions I asked were increases from that baseline (i.e., the question was what "change" in the US, the "change" is presumably from present day baseline of cars, energy, pollution and population).



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01 Oct 2014, 1:54 pm

Of course we don?t need to march for climate change?we?re already changing the climate without any march.


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01 Oct 2014, 3:59 pm

They promised us global warming, but it's getting colder.



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01 Oct 2014, 4:56 pm

Considering societies won't change....

Wouldn't it be prudent to invent new ways of cleaning the environment from the pollution we make?

I mean, if you divert even a small percentage of the funds going into say..., warfare, we should be able to get something working.



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01 Oct 2014, 5:22 pm

Humanaut wrote:
They promised us global warming, but it's getting colder.

Source?



The_Walrus
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01 Oct 2014, 5:30 pm

Humanaut wrote:
They promised us global warming, but it's getting colder.

No it isn't. Except, of course, the way it does every night and every winter. In the "long term" (actually just years and decades), your claim is demonstrably. false, and it is at least the third time I've seen you make it.

You've seen the centuries-long charts. Here's one for the past few decades:

Image

The "pause" is the result of starting from an uncommonly warm year (due to natural variation) and measuring against some unusually cold years (due to the same natural variation).

For more information, check out this post by RealClimate (it also covers some other issues like invalid comparisons . If that piques your interest, this recent post might also do so.

tl;dr: which of these lines is closer to being a best fit?

Image



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01 Oct 2014, 5:31 pm

We have dipped into a cooling trend.

http://data.remss.com/msu/monthly_time_ ... _v03_3.txt



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01 Oct 2014, 6:01 pm

Humanaut wrote:
We have dipped into a cooling trend.

http://data.remss.com/msu/monthly_time_ ... _v03_3.txt

No, we haven't.

From the very same website you just linked to:

Image

http://images.remss.com/msu/msu_time_series.html
http://www.remss.com/measurements/upper-air-temperature

The above figure shows the lower tropospheric temperature (TLT) anomaly from satellite measurements, which corresponds with the trend in land and sea surface temperature records.



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01 Oct 2014, 6:22 pm

That's the 30-year trend. It's not relevant.



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01 Oct 2014, 6:39 pm

Humanaut wrote:
That's the 30-year trend. It's not relevant.

Why not?

Also, could you provide a source with labelled axes? Maybe a graph, so we can easily see the trend?



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01 Oct 2014, 6:49 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
That's the 30-year trend. It's not relevant.

Why not?

It's arbitrary.

Quote:
Also, could you provide a source with labelled axes? Maybe a graph, so we can easily see the trend?

Sure.

Image

You can clearly see the cooling trend above, starting in 1998.