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thomas81
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10 Oct 2014, 12:33 pm

...while holding black ISIS style flags.

the latest antics from that 'oasis of western values' in the middle east.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/10/07 ... can-rally/


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Kraichgauer
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11 Oct 2014, 12:11 am

How soon people forget the past. In the last century, my relatives my family had left behind in Germany might have been among the crowds shouting: "Juden aus," directed at the parents and grandparents of the very people shouting "N*ggers go home."
As I've observed more than once, somewhere in the darkness, the heat, and the stench of brimstone, Adolf Hitler is laughing.


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11 Oct 2014, 1:39 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBlbLgl5WDs[/youtube] Are they these Israelis? Apparently all the Jews in Israel are fake! :roll:


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11 Oct 2014, 3:37 am

I'm not surprised Israel thinks it's above everyone else.



Kraichgauer
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11 Oct 2014, 4:27 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBlbLgl5WDs[/youtube] Are they these Israelis? Apparently all the Jews in Israel are fake! :roll:


The notion that modern Jews are not descendants of Hebrews but of the Turkic Khazar people is a modern myth promoted by racists and Antisemites of all colors it seems. DNA testing in fact reveals the Jewish population as being almost indistinguishable from Palestinian, Jordanian, Labanese, and Syrian men on the paternal side, while the maternal side shows a European background.


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0_equals_true
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12 Oct 2014, 9:59 am

What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?



naturalplastic
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12 Oct 2014, 10:27 am

0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


Good point.

A handful of Isrealies are racist against Blacks. Therefore I'm gonna be racist against all Isrealies! Gosh darn it!



0_equals_true
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12 Oct 2014, 10:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The notion that modern Jews are not descendants of Hebrews but of the Turkic Khazar people is a modern myth promoted by racists and Antisemites of all colors it seems. DNA testing in fact reveals the Jewish population as being almost indistinguishable from Palestinian, Jordanian, Labanese, and Syrian men on the paternal side, while the maternal side shows a European background.


I don't think modern Jewish people come from a Turkic root, or a single root. Of course there was an origin like anything.

Modern genetics and archeology links both Israelites and Lebanese to Canaanites. It also completely debunks the lost tribes theory. Ethiopian Jews are no more the Dan tribe then anything . There is actually pretty clear evidence of the split between Canaanite culture and Jewish culture. The key word is culture. Of course there are Jewish genetic lines, however there are several, and also lateral links. This is not different from Celtic, or countless other cultures.

The bottle necking comes from difficult periods.

Lebanese are not only Canaanite either. The whole nation of single origin is pretty unlikely for any culture. You only have look at modern times, and human nature wipe to floor of that very suggestion.

The reality is there were far more converts to Judaism in the past, the restrictions on conversion came becuase of persecution. The Druze came up with a policy of assimilation for simular reasons.

From the start it was always about culture. Yes there are complicated rules related to bloodline, but that doesn't stop it being a cultural movement. Even if it wasn't there is no moral high-ground in such argument.

So "distinct" is not only strong but pretty inaccurate word to use and is based on junk ideas of how the history of culture and genetic group work in reality. There are no distinct "races', and even when were get to that level of magnification, the use of the word "race" is out of place.

Your counter assertion can can be equally be viewed as bigoted and loaded. Have we not learn't anything from WWII?

The whole argument surrounding race is largely irrelevant, and stupid becuase both groups are predominately but not exclusively caucasian (which doesn't mean "white" scientifically), there are also a closer genetic link than you think especially with Yemenite, Sephardic, Persian Jews, etc. If we are talking about racism rather then bigotry we have to be clear what exactly is being argued.

Divine right, or racial entitlement should never be a factor in any modern international law. Nore should the notion that some group once live somewhere in the past, be a factor. Otherwise any group could claim to relate to other culture the predated the Hebrews. How far are we going to go back? That is not the basis which I recognize Israel. I recognize it as a modern nation. Simple.



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12 Oct 2014, 10:58 am

naturalplastic wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


Good point.

A handful of Isrealies are racist against Blacks. Therefore I'm gonna be racist against all Isrealies! Gosh darn it!


Exactly it is a strawman / guilt by tenuous link.

I don't think Kraichgauer is antisemitic just becuase Martin Luther was.



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12 Oct 2014, 2:55 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


If that's directed at me, I hardly understand the attack. I never painted a whole population with the same brush.


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thomas81
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12 Oct 2014, 3:57 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


You could, but it would a false equivalency. Most Irish, through their own history of adversity and flight bear a deep seated empathy for immigrant communities and to do otherwise would invoke an irony that for whatever reason is lost on Israelis. While you could fit the entire Irish far right into a space comparable to a public toilet, this kind of racist sentiment, especially against black africans, far from being a sort of fringe mentality in Israel is actually becoming more and more accepted as the norm.

In this video below, it specifically states that the few Israelis who dared to protest against the anti immigrant camp were met with a fierce backlash.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA[/youtube]


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thomas81
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12 Oct 2014, 4:08 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


Good point.

A handful of Isrealies are racist against Blacks. Therefore I'm gonna be racist against all Isrealies! Gosh darn it!


1- Its not only a mere 'handful'. Its a significant and loud margin, if not a majority.

2- Last I checked, Israelis weren't a race.


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0_equals_true
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12 Oct 2014, 5:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


If that's directed at me, I hardly understand the attack. I never painted a whole population with the same brush.


It wasn't directed at you.



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12 Oct 2014, 7:34 pm

thomas81 wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
What if I showed a video of an Irish far right group, making a similar false analogy? Would that make all Irish people the same?


You could, but it would a false equivalency. Most Irish, through their own history of adversity and flight bear a deep seated empathy for immigrant communities and to do otherwise would invoke an irony that for whatever reason is lost on Israelis. While you could fit the entire Irish far right into a space comparable to a public toilet, this kind of racist sentiment, especially against black africans, far from being a sort of fringe mentality in Israel is actually becoming more and more accepted as the norm.

In this video below, it specifically states that the few Israelis who dared to protest against the anti immigrant camp were met with a fierce backlash.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA[/youtube]

I don't know what language they're speaking, but for all I know, the translations could be wrong. Or they could be right, but I'd never know the difference.

If what is said in the video is true, I certainly don't approve of their methods or racist attitude, but I don't believe that if someone just walks into your country (which I'm pretty sure is illegal) they should be allowed to stay, much less be provided with a job and benefits.
There are laws pertaining to immigration for a reason, and I believe they should be enforced strongly.

I know I wouldn't expect to be able to walk into another country and stay there for long without being arrested and deported.

It's also mentioned that Europe "closed their gates to asylum seekers". Should Israel not be allowed to do the same if it wants to?



thomas81
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12 Oct 2014, 8:33 pm

ajpd1989 wrote:
I don't know what language they're speaking, but for all I know, the translations could be wrong. Or they could be right, but I'd never know the difference.

Well thats all speculative, and if it was misinterpretated then hebrew speaking zionist advocates would be all over it. I've not seen that yet.
ajpd1989 wrote:
If what is said in the video is true, I certainly don't approve of their methods or racist attitude, but I don't believe that if someone just walks into your country (which I'm pretty sure is illegal) they should be allowed to stay, much less be provided with a job and benefits.
There are laws pertaining to immigration for a reason, and I believe they should be enforced strongly.

It is true that some people come in short of the laws of the land but as the video states some are fleeing war, persecution and genocide making their self preservation a matter of precedence for them. Moreover, countries in Europe who host immigrants both illegal and legal, are given opportunities to become productive citizens. Why should immigrants into Israel be denied that?
ajpd1989 wrote:
I know I wouldn't expect to be able to walk into another country and stay there for long without being arrested and deported.

It depends on the context. If we're talking about a civilised country, then often there is an onus to provide asylum if there is a genuine risk to the life of the immigrant.
ajpd1989 wrote:
It's also mentioned that Europe "closed their gates to asylum seekers". Should Israel not be allowed to do the same if it wants to?

correction, only a minority of fascist nutjobs have suggested such a thing. Whether they are right, is another matter. If Israel wants to implement such laws, it would be equally wrong as if they were applied in Europe.


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13 Oct 2014, 3:23 am

If Israel is that racist then why is America support of them and not nuking them?


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