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SpirosD
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12 Oct 2014, 1:41 pm

SignOfLazarus wrote:
Ooh! Ooh! Anyone up for campaigning against generalizations and divisiveness?

Sign me in


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themanfromuranus
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12 Oct 2014, 3:02 pm

SpirosD wrote:
SignOfLazarus wrote:
Ooh! Ooh! Anyone up for campaigning against generalizations and divisiveness?

Sign me in
me to :D



ajpd1989
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12 Oct 2014, 5:07 pm

themanfromuranus wrote:
SpirosD wrote:
SignOfLazarus wrote:
Ooh! Ooh! Anyone up for campaigning against generalizations and divisiveness?

Sign me in
me to :D

me three



Sigbold
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15 Oct 2014, 3:21 am

SpirosD wrote:
Well, I'm going to be controversial here (start throwing rocks at me) but for me and throughout history the biggest enemy of autism has been religion, two faiths in particular, one being the results of the separation of the first. When they burned people at the stake and killed hundred of thousands people for witchcraft, being possessed, for not being normal or for not conforming to society, who do you think these people where?


From what I have read it was mostly the secular authorities that did the burning. Also the church authorities did not have a positive view of the writer of the Witches hammer, in the sense that he was considered insane.

But leaving that aside, how people with certain disorders where viewed was often depended on the context. In one case one could be considered possessed by the devil, in other cases a potential saint. For example an autistic theologian might be treated differently from someone with tourets who screams profanities during mass.



InYourHead
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15 Oct 2014, 4:02 am

SpirosD wrote:
Well, I'm going to be controversial here (start throwing rocks at me) but for me and throughout history the biggest enemy of autism has been religion, two faiths in particular, one being the results of the separation of the first. When they burned people at the stake and killed hundred of thousands people for witchcraft, being possessed, for not being normal or for not conforming to society, who do you think these people where? Autistic people or people with other disorders. Later on these same people where simply locked up, it's only at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century that prosecution toward "different people" stopped, what represents the time when countries started to go secular.
Sadly some religious groups are still living in the dark ages and still consider us has evil, mostly the baptist nuts. Her is an example of what they say about us (WARNING, what they say is very hard to take and read, especially if you have autism)
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=69903


I completely agree with this.

Moreover, I think most sociopaths (those with APD - antisocial personality disorder) are dangerous to all autistic people and those with Aspy personalities, still within the spectrum of autism, even if not diagnosed. It's hard enough to tell who you can trust, and who is your enemy. I just know that sociopaths manipulate others, especially autistic people. Granted, sociopaths are better pilots, fire fighters, war leaders, spies, actors, etc. Perhaps even surgeons. They aren't necessarily all criminals. Neurodivergency ≠ "disability," "criminal," "mentally ill," "mentally insane"/"crazy;" nor "intellectually challenged" (science and evidence have proven even brain damaged people's neural structures compensate in other undamaged areas causing new talents, synonymous to dementia patients developing spontaneous skills and new personalities). I hypothesis, while genetics take the role in creating neurodivergency, disabilities (etc.) present themselves as part of the environment. Not everyone is adaptable as everyone else, but that's not to say with a certain environment, that they would not have thrived, at least in some way -- whether recognized on the outside or not. That part depends on how well the person takes care of themselves; their past, relationships and habits of thinking reinforced by decrease of neuroplasticity; and how others treat them and/or take care of them, as well.

I think Developmental Disabilities (falls under the "government" category) is also an enemy of autistic people, the DOE, insurance companies, evidence based research designed to "cure" autism, as well as the government in general.

Autism $peaks (I'm assuming this nomenclature is so the real name won't pop up on google searches in connection to this?) is beneficial to parents in some ways (i.e. the Big Red $afety Toolbox), but I feel they use fear tactics, and the psychiatric plural phenomena known as intellectual social influence -- to lure people into donating money for families. I am a mother of a nonverbal autistic girl. Where is some of that money?!



SpirosD
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16 Oct 2014, 1:26 pm

Sigbold wrote:
SpirosD wrote:
Well, I'm going to be controversial here (start throwing rocks at me) but for me and throughout history the biggest enemy of autism has been religion, two faiths in particular, one being the results of the separation of the first. When they burned people at the stake and killed hundred of thousands people for witchcraft, being possessed, for not being normal or for not conforming to society, who do you think these people where?


From what I have read it was mostly the secular authorities that did the burning. Also the church authorities did not have a positive view of the writer of the Witches hammer, in the sense that he was considered insane.

But leaving that aside, how people with certain disorders where viewed was often depended on the context. In one case one could be considered possessed by the devil, in other cases a potential saint. For example an autistic theologian might be treated differently from someone with tourets who screams profanities during mass.


Whatever, the so called women they burned and who where considered witches where very often the pretty girls, blond with blues eyes, not the ugly ones, resulting in a big mess in the bloodline that still can be seen today. Go to Eastern Europe (Orthodox) where they didn't burn their beauties for witchcraft, and the result can still be seen today, prettier girls.
Has for the church burning people, and it follows the 2nd part of your argument, has long the person said they believed in God and they didn't risk much, look at Joan of Arc who was a crazy lunatic, convinced France to go to war because an imaginary friend (God) told her, and it worked, but later they realized she was crazy, didn't hear voices from god and said she was a witch and burned the poor girl.


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TheRedPedant93
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16 Oct 2014, 1:30 pm

Depends whether you subscribe to the biomedical or neurodivergency paradigm, but I think we are in general concordance of affiliating ourselves with "autism is a neurodifference" fraction of the diversified community. Autistics and their fellow neurodiversitarian counterparts should note that the quasi-fascist, crony capitalistic Autism Speaks is far from being their ardent adversary as I feel it's overwhelmingly pointless for them to inform the federal government to discourage multinationals from negotiating with AS to formulate a corporate sponsorship (I believe their interventions are unavailing as I'm libertarian minded), and you wouldn't expect much justice by signing letters to their preeminent corporate sponsors as they wouldn't take the anti-cure movement much for granted. I highly doubt the disreputable FDA wouldn't even think twice of obviating the cataclysmic contingent shock "therapies" that the Judge Rotenberg Center (JRC) utilizes as it's employers presumably uphold multiple conflicts of interest with each other.

I sincerely believe that the anti-vaccine subfraction of the health freedom movement is a far greater ultimatum than AS and JRC as many of them that I have witnessed through forums and online blogs such as the Age of Autism (they believe that autism is an environmentally induced multifactorially attributed illness, often philosophically purported by skeptics as being pure crank magnetism) have expressed virulent antagonism towards the neurodiversity exponents and their ideological subversion of autism in all of it's forms.

HFA/AS proponents of the acceptance model (a vast proportionate of them dismiss the vaccine hypothesis) have been blatantly accused by parents of severely autistic children and scientists advocating the biomedicalization model (anti-vaxxers, big pharma critics) of being "not really autistic," that "Asperger's is not a form of autism," discarding more severely affected people who are unable to express themselves, deliberately suppressing purported environmental causes like pesticides, antibiotics and food additives because this implies an insinuating antithesis of the neurodivergent philosophical foundation of autism, being pseudo-skeptical disinformation goon shills for Big Pharma/Illuminati/NWO :twisted:; and being "indoctrinated sheeple" for supporting scientifically based medicine while simultaneously discarding Big Pharma conspiracies and acknowledging "professional" advice from agencies such as the APA, FDA and the CDC who uphold multilateral ties with pharmaceutical multinationals. John Best Junior is an utmost opprobrious advocate for these alleged theories (he has been dehumanizing aspie/HFA proponents of ND on his "Hating Autism" blog and in multitudinous online forums in the past) and I'd consider him the greatest self-certified nemesis of the neurodiversity/autistic pride movement. He even created two offensive facebook pages one of which when he accused all people with asperger's of being "psycho killers" who should have their brains cured with no hesitation amidst the 2012 Sandy Hook shootings and advertently renamed it to encourage people to save children from the prominent autistic and disability civil rights advocate Ari Ne'eman (long deleted).

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/John_Best
http://www.change.org/p/facebook-delete ... m-facebook

Many anti-vaxxers are proponents of alternative "cures" such as Miracle Mineral Solution and Chelation Therapy which have been widely condemned by the autism rights groups, but of course they are too adamant to give up just continue with their desperation to rid their child's regressive autism. Other overlooked concerns for justifying the autistic community's enemies are snake oil peddlers such as exorcists, New Age witchcraft cranks and faith healing fundamentalists who are often lauded by the most grandiose-minded conspiracy theorists. Paleoconservative political commenter Michael Savage stated in the past that many existent autism diagnoses are mislabeled towards poorly nurtured and ill-disciplined children, and was subsequently reprimanded by autism advocates and rightly so.

Jenny McCarthy, Michael Savage, John Best, Age of Autism, Big Pharma conspiracists, anti-vaxxers, alternative medicine practioners, biomedical scientists and some unicultural conservatives are my suggestable choices for the enemies of the autistic/neurodiversity community, need I say more :)


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Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 1 out of 200
Alexithymia Questionnaire: 166/185 AQ: 49/50 EQ: 9/80


Last edited by TheRedPedant93 on 16 Oct 2014, 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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16 Oct 2014, 1:55 pm

John Best, if you go by just his ideas, is the one of the worst bigots, but his influence is minimal and we're probably just helping him with his message by even talking about him.

The anti-vaxxer (that's what they are, the whole "pro-safe vaccine" thing is pure horse s**t.) groups are the worst. That includes National Autism Association, Age of Autism, Talk About Curing Autism, AutismOne, SafeMinds, Canary Party, and Generation Rescue.

Autism Speaks is still the org that concerns me the most because they are by far the most influential. They are the go to groups for media and policymakers.



riley
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16 Oct 2014, 4:29 pm

This is a very ugly thread. I understand why people dislike John Best, I do not agree with his actions however naming individuals is just inciting more hatred.

There have been "autism advocates" who have been involved in bullying parents themselves.. to the extent the infamous blacklist was made.

This was not about attacking autism speaks but innocent people.. I can see this thread doing the same thing.

If people believe vaccines triggered a child's autism that does NOT give others the right to actually organize hate campaigns against them. It is their child and their business.



riley
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16 Oct 2014, 4:41 pm

There are also "autism advocates" who are in fact sociopaths within the autism community. Rallying others to bully and then getting a thrill from the fallout and the people they hurt.

One would think that people with autism may have had enough bullying themselves in schools and workplaces. ENCOURAGING bullying.. even under the BS excuse of pre-empted self defense is still bullying and makes people no better than the NTs that do it.



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16 Oct 2014, 5:13 pm

I don't see this as a inciting hate. We're just venting frustration and warning about what organizations to avoid. Bullying is a very over-used term. It minimally has to involve an imbalance of power. There's more to the definition than that, but that's where most of the misuse comes in.



SpirosD
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16 Oct 2014, 9:23 pm

Another enemy of Autism is the Republic of France, the country where I live in. In France psychiatry is still based on psychoanalyze and on dumb Freudian theories, and all that supported by the state. In France they think autism is a choice, some say it comes from the mother because she subconsciously rejected her child or during pregnancy or at birth, and the worst part is France really thinks it can be cured. Has for Asperger's they didn't really start diagnostic before the 2000's, have rejected all the manuals that are uses all over the world, like DSM-IV and DSM-V and created their own BS version. Luckily younger psychiatrist reject the entire French system, but get s**t from their peers and the country (Ministry of health) for it. I personally was officially diagnose in my early 20's in the USA... And got a second official diagnosis in France from a younger doctor (did it because I needed some paperwork and to be removed from the draft list and other administrative lists, didn't knew that by doing so I'll be forbidden to enter a Casino in France, but I don't care, I have another citizenship to bypass that).
Anyway, when I was younger, the school saw me has weird and "crazy" and anti-social and called in a school psychiatrist... Long story short, between the age of 9 and 10 I was sent into a "special school" what really was a mental asylum for kids, and I saw the bad treatment everyone got, some kids would get shots, other given drugs that dumbed them down (myself included a few times), and has a kid I saw other kids, those who couldn't talk (today I know they where autistic) being packed in cold sheets, and receiving cold showers. So I spent one year in absolute hell, would get in trouble for reading comic books all day, would get screamed after for making remarks, and punishment where treats to not see my parents ever again. My mom never gave a s**t, but my dad did and eventually broke the law and got me out from that place and put me back into regular school (not the best but better than the hell I was in) and I got my diplomas and then was able to study my passion, that are films.

So just to say, France is for me, after religion the biggest enemy of autism in the world. So f**k France and everything this country stands for when it comes to mental health and especially autism.
And thanks to Alex Plank (for his documentary) and to Sophie Robert for spreading awareness to the citation in France.

Sorry for my long text, or my rant, or testimonial (consider it what you want)


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riley
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16 Oct 2014, 9:52 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
I don't see this as a inciting hate. We're just venting frustration and warning about what organizations to avoid. Bullying is a very over-used term. It minimally has to involve an imbalance of power. There's more to the definition than that, but that's where most of the misuse comes in.

Of course you don't this thread is about YOU trying to incite hatred with the "go get em" attitude. You are even naming names now.

Individuals.

We have people carrying on about "antivaxxers".. which in reality would be innocent parents who believe their child may have been vaccine injured.

Many of those parents ended up on the "autism blacklist".

You are NOT just "venting frustration" you are trying to stir up hatred.. and THAT scares me. That is sociopathic behaviour and certainly NOT autistic behaviour.

There has been much bullying in the autism community.. REAL bullying where law suits and police have gotten involved.

Want me to name a name? I really didn't want to but I remember ~name deleted~ was a ringleader some time ago. She may have changed however she rallied people to mas report others on facebook. As far as I am concerned that kind of behaviour makes autism look bad but I don't see you or others calling her an autism enemy as she plays for YOUR side. She hates NTs. She is also pretty high up in autism advocacy and has been heralded in the media for her "good work". She has power but what if she decided to abuse it? Or does she get a free pass because she says she has autism?

Power balance.. I see so much hatred for NTS on this site it reminds me of white supremacists. Hell even someone writing a character for parenthood is seen as evil aspie hater.. and a man who actually LIES to sperm clinics, a criminal act of fraud in order to impose his ideal of aspie eugenics on others is actually congratulated for his "autism advocacy".

I know what bullying is.. and I know what advocacy is and this thread is BULLYING. Trying to rally people by naming "enemies" and trying to skitch them like trained dogs. It is also DANGEROUS as you might inspire someone to be violent.. yet you would just calling it "venting frustration".

Do your own dirty work and stop trying to use other aspies as attack dogs.



Last edited by riley on 17 Oct 2014, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

riley
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16 Oct 2014, 10:11 pm

Yep it looks like certain people in the autism community are going to start with the gang stalking yet again. I thought those days were over.

I had hoped.

This place is a disgrace for allowing it to happen and those posting ENCOURAGING hate groups against NTs make me genuinely afraid of autistics here. It's bad enough WP facebook group banned alot of innocent people on the say so of the person I mentioned earlier.


This place should be safe for everyone.. and yes including parents who believe their children have been vaccine injured.. AND Including those who do not think "the autism" is a free pass to abuse others or break the law. I do not want to be a part of a community who acts badly then blames everyone else when called on their BS.

and before people decide I must be an evil NT I have dx autism myself. It has been a very difficult road filled with bullying and I do not want to see more of it.



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16 Oct 2014, 10:13 pm

I'm reading what you have all wrote, but being in Europe I don't seem to be following your entire debates, mind letting me in? I've heard of some of the groups you are mentioning and names, but never paid attention or cared about them, simply because I don't care. Personally I'm on the spectrum and that is it, and have nothing against NT's, after all don't we all secretly wish to be NT's?


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16 Oct 2014, 11:07 pm

You just compared me to a white supremacist, but I'm the one encouraging hate? Got it. :roll: