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danothan24
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21 Oct 2014, 1:10 am

My first post in a long time, and I'm back here because I'm seriously starting to doubt my own humanity. I'm 22 years old (getting close to 23), never had a girlfriend, never been on a real date. Human connection/affection are some of our most basic, fundamental human needs. If getting these needs met is a ridiculous Herculean task with absolutely no success, ever...how do I even qualify as an actual person? I'm not trying to be over dramatic, but seriously. If you go so long without getting basic human needs met, eventually, you either die or you turn into something else. And I haven't died, although I pretty much feel dead. Simple life shouldn't be this hard. Am I the only one who has to question whether we qualify as human with these sorts of difficulties? :cry:

Also, PLEASE don't anybody give me a speech about getting a pet or God's love or anything like that. I know a lot of people find alternative ways of fulfilling needs, but none of it works for me and I just don't want to hear it anymore.


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drsonic
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21 Oct 2014, 6:02 am

I'm not sure how helpful I'll be, but FWIW I'm 42 and never felt human. I had few relationships until late 20's and got married at 31. What I think is that it takes us alot longer to get to milestones like marriage than NTs, due to taking longer to build up life experience. I can't say it's all roses along the way I'd be lying to you. If you can focus on your career/work for now then you make yourself more of an 'eligible bachelor' if you will, bit like the fictional character in Tony Attwood's book at the beginning and end. But no I still don't feel human.



kraftiekortie
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21 Oct 2014, 7:49 am

Wouldn't it be nice to turn into a kangaroo?

Seriously: your time will come. I'm had similar musings covering about 39 of my 53 years.

Frankly, if you're wondering whether or not you're truly human, I would say the fact of you pondering that philosophical notions makes you, paradoxically, eminently human beyond a shadow of a doubt.

What are your special interests?

I must confess: I'm not of a philosophical bent myself--but am always interested in hearing the philosophical viewpoint.

One of my special interests is Neanderthal Man.



jerry00
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21 Oct 2014, 2:02 pm

I feel exactly the same way and I'm three years older. It's only gotten worse, nothing ever gets better.

All people can say is "work on improving yourself" which I have done and am doing, it doesn't make any difference. I'm a much more rounded person than when I was 22, and still nobody cares. I think what they actually mean by improve yourself is "stop having aspergers because you're an unlikeable freak"

The only outlet I have is these forums where I get roundly patronised and offered the same faux-advice and solutions you get. i.e. solutions that never helped anyone ever. These people could offer their own acceptance and friendship, but nah, that would be too much like caring.

And because I DARED complain about it, you're going to call me an angry bitter person who doesn't deserve friendship anyway, aren't you? Well go ahead. I'm already dead inside.

Hitler had a girlfriend. It's nothing to do with being angry and bitter, we all know damn well it's because we have aspergers and discrimination against the mentally different is the fun thing for normal society to do. We all know this but we dance around the subject. I'm so sick of it. And FYI you would be bitter too if your entire value as a human was reduced to nothing more than a constant series of actions you must take in order to "improve yourself". I wish someone would at least try and understand that.



AngelRho
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21 Oct 2014, 4:25 pm

Well, there is SOME good news. Having a girlfriend is not nor has ever been a basic human need. Human needs are water, food, and shelter. The most important function of sex is the survival of the species, nothing more exciting than that. Nobody needs it. Nobody is entitled to it. And even if you say you're not looking for sex, just companionship or satisfying a craving for human attention, you'll still survive without that.

No, it's not a need. It's everyone else has something that you believe you want or desire, and because this thing appears to be so ubiquitous, you feel you ought to have it just like everyone else does.

There's no secret or magic formula here. You just want the same thing everyone else wants. The only way you're going to get that is if you shift your focus away from what YOU want for YOURSELF to giving everyone else what they want.

If you want a gf, you have to figure out what girls want. Which is...what? Same thing we all want: For someone to make us feel important. Learn to lavish people with praise, and by that I mean everyone regardless of gender. Get other people to talk about themselves for a while. Make notes of what interests people and ask them about that...hobbies, family, favorite color, best anime films or shows, whether the Star Wars prequels really lived up to episodes IV-VI, etc. Keep a journal about everyone you meet, write down any personal info you can get out of them, make regular contacts. You don't even have to do all that much talking, either. They will see you as someone who cares and they'll want to hang out with you...not because you're a cool cat but because your presence makes them feel good about themselves.

If out of everyone you meet you manage to meet 2 new women every week, within a year you'll know 100 women that you speak to on a regular basis. Make the rounds and see who wants to meet for lunch on Wednesday and dinner on Friday. Within a year's time you shouldn't spend another weekend alone. Track who you spend the most time with. Is there a mutual attraction? Begin narrowing your dating pool until all that's left are those you see often...those who are really into you (and you them). There will be one who stands out more than any of them. BAM...you have a gf.



danothan24
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21 Oct 2014, 10:27 pm

Im not even talking about sex, I'm talking about basic affectionate contact (ex: a good hug). Your body has several chemical reactions with contact so yes, it is a need. Not a survival need per se, but a health need. There was one isolated incident, several years ago now, when someone did hold me for a few moments, and its the only time I can recall just feeling peace. That's all I want, and I'm getting tired of being made to feel like a freak of nature for needing that sometimes.


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danothan24
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21 Oct 2014, 11:23 pm

To the topic of interests that was brought up earlier, here's where things get tough for me. I love stories, mainly movies/tv series. I can appreciate books also, but it's near impossible for me to imagine faces, so they can get tricky. I've recently moved to Portland, with hopes of being able to go to film school next year. My tastes definitely lean to alternative/counterculture/"indie" type stuff (IE, I like the Oscar pictures WAAAY more than most of the summer blockbusters), and Portland has become something of a mecca for that sort of modern-hippy mentality.

This is basically where my interests end. Yes, I can discuss philosophy and politics and recent events. I have some sensibilities about music. I don't give a damn about sports, but that doesn't tend to be as big an issue with girls as it with guys, and I can stomach sitting through a game so long as I'm not expected to get in a lively banter about the specifics of what is going on. I love stories because they make sense. They have a message to tell, even if the message is "there is no message". Real life is a chaotic mess to me, stories are my escape. Outside of this, I just don't really care about anything that much. I can completely understand why that kind of mentality could be exhausting for most people, and frankly most people exhaust me with what feels like mindless "small talk", but at the same time, I do have a deep need to try to connect in some way. This is my living catch-22. I need a connection, but have a mutual disinterest with most people.

There actually are "cuddle therapists" in Portland who snuggle for an hour (strictly non-sexual), and I'm honestly starting to consider that. But God that feels pathetic, and actually typing it out just makes it sound even sadder. I don't know if anyone even can give me any real advice here. I just want to know if anyone else has these same sort of demons. If fellow aspies don't, then, I'm not even sure what that would make me.


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jerry00
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22 Oct 2014, 2:25 am

Yeah I love it when they say you don't need this you don't need that, but they would never dream of denying it to someone they cared about. Everything I said in my last post hit the nail so square on the head, they wouldn't even dare reply. There's nothing that can be said to refute it.

And when they fail at talking down to you, they'll simply ignore you. But what will never happen is to be treated as an equal, that would put them out too much effort.



sly279
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22 Oct 2014, 2:46 am

its a need for some people and not for others. those who don't need it want to force that mindset on those who do, saying they don't need it and can survive without it , probably say it right up to where those people kill themselves then they'll say I don't understand why he/she did it.

I need to be held, touched, loved. the unavoidable future for me is very likely death sooner then it would normally be.

I don't think i am owed it though, which is the difference. yes you body can survive with food, water and shelter, but that's surviving not living. surviving is meant to be a temp stop gate, a lot of people if put in a long term surviving situation will lose hope and die.
life is about living not surviving. to live one needs the things that make them feel happy and alive. this is different for each person. I don't judge others for what they need to live, but so many would judge me and others, seems cruel.

for example I wouldn't last as long as my friend if stranded alone on an island. he hes contempt without people without a gf without being touched or talking. so he can handle it far longer. where as I need those things , so I would give up hope after a few months and stop trying.

you can survive in a tent in the woods eating bugs. but how long would any of you want to live that way? 1 year, 15 years 70 years? likely most wouldn't want to do it more then a year.

there's actually a few studies that show people who are hugged a certain amount each day live longer and happier lives.
there's also companies that you pay and they come hug/cuddle you.

which Portland are you near?



danothan24
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22 Oct 2014, 2:53 am

I'm in Portland, Oregon (been living on the outskirts for a few months, actually moving into the middle of downtown in 2 days, very excited to really be in the city). And yeah, I referenced the ability to literally buy cuddling in my last post. Here they call it cuddle therapy. I'm seriously contemplating it at this point, but man that feels pathetic.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Oct 2014, 8:32 am

Do yourself a favor: don't "buy a cuddle."

Channel your inner Kangaroo instead.



androbot01
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22 Oct 2014, 10:07 am

I hear ya, OP. *hug*

It's hard to get used to not having someone to share your life with. I actually did get a dog. lol Although this wouldn't work for everyone, I do find that I feel less alone. But, yeah, it's not the same.
Often I think of myself as being in a prison - a mental solitary confinement. I have accepted that my situation won't change and now just try to make the best of it.



AngelRho
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22 Oct 2014, 11:11 am

sly279 wrote:
life is about living not surviving.

I think that's an over-romanticized cliche. I'm not suggesting it's somehow wrong to want the attention and affection of someone else. It's exaggerating the necessity of it that is problematic. People can SAY they just want a hug or someone to talk to?deep down, that's not really what they're after.

We may not experience that as "needing sex," but we can't deny basic human urges, either. Fundamentally that's all it is?some sort of oxytocin fix. If you learn to recognize the chemical factor here, you can learn to transcend it somewhat. If it means that much to you to get it, you're going to have to work to get it.

In a crude sort of way, it would be like trying to get illegal drugs without any source of income. Why not just become a drug dealer? As long as your supplier gets his cut, you can do all the dope you want for as long as you want because you have it all on-hand and everyone is happy with the arrangement. You get in trouble once you stop working for it?i.e. you use your entire stash without selling any dope and paying back your middleman.

Not suggesting anyone actually sell drugs, but essentially what we're talking about here is physical contact or intimacy as a sort of drug or pain reliever, physical and/or mental/emotional. You either buy it or you do the leg work to get it. I've already outlined a strategy to get hugs basically for free.

Honestly, I'm not a huggy/feely person. I'm picky about who I get physical with. I mean, I don't even like to hug my own mom. I was once a guest at someone's house for the first night of Hanukkah (I'm not Jewish) and there was a lot of kissing going on. OK, I get it?but for me that's just weird. Hugging/kissing my own boys, though, doesn't seem all that "off." So I understand craving that kind of attention and only wanting that from a very tiny, select few people. But, I mean, SPECIFICALLY what are we talking about here? I'll give another man the old arm-around-the-shoulders hug if he just needs a hug. I might feel awkward and weird about it, but I'll do it if we're just going through some tough times and I know he needs comfort more than I need my personal space. I hug most women the same way, the exceptions being women I already have a more intimate relationship with (not necessarily a sexual relationship, but a familiar closeness in which a full-contact body hug isn't inappropriate. I generally avoid that as it is often seen as improper).

I get the feeling that it's not simply a matter of just wanting physical comfort. If it's a basic human need, then given how LITTLE such intimate contact I actually get, I should have shriveled up and died already. I'm pretty sure we're doing just fine here if we actually think about it a little bit.



The_Face_of_Boo
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22 Oct 2014, 11:33 am

I am Groot.



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22 Oct 2014, 11:54 am

Your still very young and so time is on your side.

But anyway... relationships just don't fall out of the sky and land in your lap. There is a lot of work involved. Whether NT or ASD there is work involved, its just that NTs often pick up on it more naturally as they go along.

The basic things, like appearance, fitness, working towards goals (being mature and responsible). Are you seeing to these things?



danothan24
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22 Oct 2014, 12:24 pm

If AngelRho could stop with the passive-aggressive "advice", that'd be great.

And ToySoldier, I used to. A couple year ago I dropped 60 pounds, was doing quite well. Didn't make one damn bit of difference. I've long learned the normal rules just don't apply to me, for whatever reasons. Too fundamentally different from people, I guess. Now I'm in a new environment with a steady job, I'm trying to get in decent shape again, but it's not going to help. Frankly, if people did start getting interested in me after getting into better shape, it would just confirm for me that they're shallow. This goes back to my catch-22 I referenced in an earlier post; I share a mutual disinterest with the vast majority of people, but I still need basic connection. I hate being alone, but almost everyone I meet just makes me feel even lonelier. I really don't know what to do at this point.


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Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. --George Carlin