Am I even a person?

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I'm 44 and I still don't know how to kiss. Frankly I think it's over-rated. You may be experiencing the realization that life is not what you thought it would be. I remember going through this and I felt like I'd been ripped off. I got through childhood by buying into the belief that I will get the things valued in school - family, children, job, etc. But that's just myths to keep kids in line.

You're definitely right about realizing most of the stuff I was told growing up was BS. Doesn't change needing affection though. It's the only way I ever feel any sense of connection. I get tired of being the alien outsider.

Yeah, me too.

i don't go there very often only been there 4 times. too dangerous for driving. I like Oregon though. but i only ever been in Oregon so who am I to know.

people can have different needs. we don't all need the same things so just cause my needs are different then yours doesn't make them invalid.

not everyone can eat the same food, does that invalidate their need to eat if they don't eat something their body can't handle

i don't think you'll ever be able to understand being someone that doesn't need to be touched. so lets just drop it.



think it depens on where you live, here in oregon having a car and good job is very very important to women. they list it in their requirements. sure theres the 10% who don't but how do you find them, then how many are single and would be interested in you. or you can work to get agood job and car and hope to try your luck with the other 90%. that's what i'm trying to do though i feel deep down inside no job i get will be what they consider a good/decent job.

the age thing. everyone says you're 16 it'll get better , or your only 20 it'll get better. people always told me that. welp 25-26 here and it didn't get better. there are people age 50 who never had love, didn't get better for them either. its just a feel good thing people say. s**t don't get better mos of the time. it gets worse or stays the same. not to say it might not get better , but I find that hard to believe seeing how shity stuff keeps happening to people.

i do have to agree with him. its hard to feel you know what its like when you say you had a bunch of relationships when you were our age. i've had none. if I had had like 10 relationshps by now i'd feel different. I'd feel like hey I can get women I just haven't found the right one. instead of feeling like a pile of worthless trash no woman will touch.

i make women laugh alot but that doesn't seem to overcome my looks and lack of decent job/car.

i don't think the op should give up hope, but I don't want to lie and give feel good phrases that have been resused over the past 200+ years

Sly, I appreciate your honesty. BTW, I'd definitely feel dangerous trying to drive around this city as well. Thankfully we have a pretty great public transit system. My only gripes are the prices ($100 for a month pass??) and that everything shuts down around midnight. But it's extremely efficient at getting you where you need to be during the day.

Well, ok, let's go with what you've given us to work with here, which at least shows some effort and a genuine desire for improvement:

I mean this half in jest: What are we, chopped liver?


I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you, but I will say this: My mom lives nearly 3 hours away, I have no living brothers/sisters, and both my in-laws were dead before my wife and I had been married a year. We understand what that can be like.


OK, you're "pretty friendly" with people. Do you smile at people? Do they smile back at you? Do you tell people "hello"? Do they return greetings?


If people say "hello" or "good morning" or ask how you're doing, they are by default giving you a chance.


Good. Don't ever stop.


You may not be aware of this, but you don't have to be GIVEN that opportunity. You already have it. Just be good to people. Nothing complicated, just be friendly and smile a lot. Not fake psychotic smile, but try to look happy.

I understand for some aspies this is hard to do. To illustrate my own difficulties, I was one of the best high school clarinetists in the state back in the day. Majored in clarinet in college, and though I didn't get my master's degree in performance, about half my non-composition/theory electives were in clarinet performance. One thing my clarinet prof. pointed out was that performance is all smoke and mirrors--just because we "feel" it doesn't mean we are communicating what the music makes us feel in such a way that the audience shares our experience. And that's something that will always hold me back from being a world-class clarinetist. It's not easy to live with, but honestly I'm more concerned about getting other people to perform my music than I am playing my music myself. It's just a kick in the gut when playing clarinet has almost been like a lifelong passion of mine.

Therein lies the difficulty: You can learn to give facial expressions that communicate your inner attitude, or at least the attitude you wish to portray. It may be difficult, but IF this is something you're having a hard time with it's worth looking into.

And I don't know you well enough to KNOW that's what's going on. If you don't have problems with keeping a smile on your face at all times, then please disregard.


It never will be. I mean, here's the thing: There's not a single person on the planet who gets a free pass on this one.


Don't try to catch up.

OK, here's my thing: Dating sucks. Forget about dating. Focus instead more on the journey towards a LTR, and enjoy every tiny baby step you take on the way.

Just get to know as many people of the opposite sex as you possibly and reasonably can. Go where they are and hang out until you feel comfortable around them. Work up to asking them how they're doing, telling you more about themselves, what their names are, what you do besides hang out here, etc. Just get that time in, and if you last 5 minutes, call it good. Keep track of who you're spending most of your time with and if you feel good regularly hanging out with that person, ask if she'd like to meet up in the middle of the week for coffee on her lunch break. Sooner or later you're going to accumulate a large number of names and relevant personal info. You might eventually work up to dating, but there's no point in rushing unless you both talk it out and it seems like a sure bet. But I wouldn't even rush to so much as talk about it unless it seems really, REALLY obvious there's some good chemistry there.

And even that's a LOOOOOOONG way down that road. Don't look for that. Just meet folks and get to know them.


It's not quite the big deal you might think it is. You might luck out and be with someone who has a lot of experience. If things are going that direction, you just let her know where you are in your experience and suggest that maybe she take the lead in that area. Your first kiss probably won't be anything to write home about, but it at least gives you a point of departure.

If it's any comfort, there are girls out there who make it to college-age and haven't been kissed. I had fun corrupting such a college freshman when I was doing my master's degree, and I likely would have pursued this girl even if I'd never had a relationship or kissed a girl before. You might luck out and either meet a girl who will be patient with you or end up with someone who find it just as funny and awkward as you do. Either way, just have fun and go with it. It's really not the most important thing in the world, anyway.


You might be surprised, but there are worse things! I'm married to someone who can't keep up with my libido. Frustrating for me? You bet! The most important thing in life? No?keeping my hands to myself for the sake of my wife having a little peace is a fairly small sacrifice to make.

For some people, and this could easily have been me, there is the excessively clingy co-dependent relationship that quickly turns abusive. You may try not to end up alone at all costs. But I once was in a relationship that at one point I made up my mind I really WOULD rather be all alone than spend the rest of my life with that old ball and chain.


OK, I understand that. But there are other ways of getting that sense of connection. You'll do yourself more favors looking in that direction. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel the way you do, but I am saying that you just need to broaden your horizons and keep an open mind. You're not getting "fed" in this area of life. The logical thing to do is look for another area of life in which you CAN get "fed" and draw more of your satisfaction from that (bearing in mind, of course, what I said about being satisfied).


I'm sure you're ready for a relationship. No problem there. And it's not some special privilege. I could be wrong here, of course, but I get the impression that maybe you ARE treating it like a special privilege yourself.

I think you see it as being a special privilege to other people, i.e. it's your view of the status quo. And you think that is wrong, i.e. for people, or "everyone else" to have something to which you feel excluded. You feel this is something that you yourself should be entitled to just as much as anyone. You DESERVE it.

The attitude that you DESERVE it is what makes it special (to you). And as such, you've made it a special privilege not just for everyone else, but for yourself as well. I suspect you are unaware that you're doing this, and that's part of the problem you're experiencing.

What you have to understand that the rest of us deal with is we are not worthy of love ourselves. Nobody is. NT, Aspie, hydrocephalic gorilla-human hybrid, whatever. I don't deserve my wife's love by default. I think she deserves a lot more than me. Deserving isn't the point. I GAVE myself to my wife as a free gift, as wretched as I am, and I'm only made worthy by the fact she accepted me as her own. My wife GAVE herself to me as a free gift and I love her as someone who is so much more than "worthy." We don't deserve each other, but we are grateful that we have each other.

To get there, you need to first accept the friendships you already have and build on them. You really need to let this idea go that you somehow have the right to companionship. To get the kind of contact you're craving, you're going to have to build on your network of friends, especially with the opposite sex, really focus on getting to know them, and build the sort of level of trust that they aren't going to mind you loving on them. If that's all you really want, you're not going to get into anything that's going to go LTR.

Before I graduated college, I was crushing on one of my undergrad classmates. I'd been in a relationship, so I chose not to pursue this crush. But I broke up with my gf just before graduation when I got the bright idea to hit on this other girl, and it turned out she'd just recently gone single for the same reasons I had. I wish I had her reaction on video so I could post it on Youtube. She was like "EEEEEEEWWWWW!! !! That's so grooooooooss!! !! !! !! ! No way, because you're just like a big brother, and that's just WEIRD." I mean, her reaction was absolutely priceless. I was disappointed, but at the same time it made me laugh. I mean, hey, you gain nothing by not trying. I knew I'd never see her again, so it was worth it to at least give it a shot.

If there's anything worse than the friend zone, it's the bro-zone. The point is that I clearly wanted this girl and there was no real reason for her to not sleep with me. But having no excuse to not sleep with me just wasn't enough to get her in my bed. It wasn't what she wanted and flat just wasn't going to happen. I had no choice but to respect that and after a certain point just leave her alone about it and not bring it up again. Apply same basic principle to holding hands or hugging?nobody owes you that. I'm married and my wife doesn't even owe me that. You're going to go through a ton of relationships that WILL FAIL, and MAYBE you'll get what you want on occasion. It's a LONG road to a LTR when you get constant companionship and a modicum of physical affection. Start with the friends/coworkers you already have and slowly expand from there, same as I'd spent so much time with this girl and thought I MIGHT have a chance, even if it was a long shot. I still got shot down--but I might not have, and I think NOT taking the risk that I might get to have some fun with her just once would have been a mistake. It MIGHT have worked, and I wouldn't have known if I hadn't tried. I felt that I could try with this girl and even if I failed our friendship wouldn't have been any less what it was. And that's why I insist on keeping as many potential dates in the friend zone for a long period of time before deciding on who best to take a chance on in terms of a successful LTR.

In short?take your time, don't hurry.

I'll give you credit for at least not being condescending with that one, but I have to laugh at the whole "deserve" rant. I don't deserve anything specifically, no...as social creatures, all humans deserve companionship. Everyone. This is where my feeling like less than a human feeling stems from.
Let me explain what my life consists of to help paint a better picture.
I wake up. I find some way to kill time before work, mostly on the computer. Then in the afternoon, I go to my job, as a security guard at a fairly high-end building downtown. I patrol outside and on the building floors. I make small talk with several different people, including some of the regular homeless people outside. I smile, I occasionally make a passing joke, etc. Then I'm posted at a desk for the remainder of the hour, where I give people directions and often make more small talk. If I'm tired and need to recharge, it's very easy to go into one of the stairwells or the restroom and get my needed alone time. I keep alternating between my patrol and greeter duties. I do this until my shift is over. Then I go home. By the time I get home it's past midnight, so I might kill some more time, or just go to bed. That's it. That's my life.
I have one friend from my hometown (who was my only friend in my hometown) who's relocated down here, who I occasionally see on my days off, but it's not often. The only social hobbies I'm interested in (acting, making films) occur in the evenings when I'm working. I'm perfectly friendly with the people I work with, but all the people I'm interested in dating are either A: Too old for me. B: Too young for me. C: Taken or D: I don't know them near well enough to ask them out. Mostly it's C and D.
When I say "chance", I mean an opportunity for some one-on-one time to actually get to know each other. I have a bunch of friendly acquaintances, but nobody who would exactly invite me to a party. I've tried online dating, but frankly it seems to attract the most shallow sort of people, at least in my age range. Most people only make me feel lonelier, so I have to get to know someone a bit before I even know if I might want to ask them out. When I'm asking someone out, I'm essentially giving them permission to hurt me. Which they do. Every. Single. Time. After my last rejection, I spent about a half hour just crying in one of the stairwells. I just can't take it anymore.
Also, I don't enjoy baby steps. It's like how most guys seem to enjoy a "chase", where for me trying to "chase" someone is an absolute nightmare. I'm not terribly interested in more friends. I want a source of physical affection. Not just another friend. With one notable exception, I've never been able to keep a friend for more than a year or 2. See my earlier long comment about movies being the only thing I'm interested in and having a mutual disinterest with most people.

It should also be noted that most people are shocked to hear I'm only 22. Most people assume I'm closer to 30 when they meet me. Which probably goes a long way to explaining my issues with people my own age. When I'm with people my age, I feel like a babysitter, but when I'm with older people I'm an absolute loser in comparison, as far as money and accomplishments go. So I really don't see any options.

I am Groot.

Yeah, but nobody DESERVES it. If you can somehow let this part of it go, you won't feel less than human. There's no such thing as being "good enough" for someone else. People are attracted to who/what they're attracted to, and companionship comes when people see something in others that those other people have to offer them. A person is good enough to be a companion when you MAKE them good enough. How do you get someone to make you good enough? Simple?make them good enough for you.

OK, enough of that...


OK, so you're not completely hopeless. You can't do anything about C. Depending on the situation, it's possible to "steal" a gf. PUAs do the whole negging thing, which I'm really against. I did this accidentally once. A girl was telling me about her situation with her bf, and all I did was say "wow?I had no idea things were so bad. You two always seem so happy together. I didn't know you were so unhappy with your relationship." And I was honestly just making conversation, but in PUA terms I was negging (PUAs do it to make a girl feel uncomfortable about herself or shake her confidence, creates a sense of vulnerability, and it's this vulnerability that a PUA attacks to force an attraction. It's a low tactic, but often effective). The funny thing was that's all it took for her to make up her mind to dump her bf and start going out with me.

But busting up relationships is the exception rather than the rule. If you were in a relationship, you wouldn't want anyone interfering, either. So unless there's a reason you SHOULD get involved, don't.

D you can fix pretty easily over time, and if I were you I'd spend every chance I got on this one. It's basically you just get people to talk about themselves. At some point, you just say "Hey, that's really interesting! I know you're busy and I have to get back to work, but why don't we get together about XX:XX x.m. and you can tell me more about that?" BAM?you just earned yourself another hour with this person.

At your age, the vast majority of folks are going to be older than you. You can't get around that. I briefly dated someone who, I think, was maybe 5 years older than me. She had issues I just wasn't prepared to deal with at the time, but she was a sweet lady and I wish I hadn't been such an immature idiot back then. It would have been worth it to pursue that relationship a little further, but, hindsight, y'know.

Exactly what are you defining as "too young"? You know a lot of 15-year-olds? You might help your cause by expanding the age range you find acceptable. I wouldn't be above dating a 19-year-old, and I'm 36. Whether that relationship might actually go anywhere is a different matter, and whether I'm actually likely to date someone that age is an issue. It's not a likely scenario, but I'm just saying I'm open to it.


I'm not a fan of online dating.

I think at your stage of life and given your situation, writing off so many people that you attract through online dating might be a little premature. You're not going to find a single person out there who places absolutely ZERO importance on superficiality. Granted, there are degrees of that, but nobody is perfect. There is not a single superficially attractive feature about you that has absolutely no influence on causing someone to be interested in you. NONE. Those qualities are your foot in the door. Let the whole shallowness thing go. Work with what you have. You might be surprised by the gems you uncover that way.

Caveat: You don't want to end up with someone who is certifiably insane, is high-maintenance, or is a gold-digger. If that's what you refer to is "shallow," then you are wise to avoid that person. All I'm saying is that it is a simple fact of human nature that we are superficial beings and the wants/desires of others is not our primary concern. Our primary concern is ourselves and our own sense of importance.

Secondary to that is other people and how those people make you feel good about yourself. Think about it. Why be nice to anybody? Why do favors? Help the homeless? Go to church? Because it makes you feel good. You could say it's just the right thing to do, but why ever do the right thing? Because it makes you feel good. If you're a Christian, why follow Christ? Because God wants you to? No, because YOU want to. So why hang out with certain people? They make you feel good.

See what I did there? I just handed you the presidency of the USA. Go have fun!

My point is we all possess shallow self-interest. If you want the attention of the opposite sex, USE THAT. Part of your problem, which I think you've pretty much admitted outright, is lack of experience. You don't need a serious relationship?you just need practice forming relationships that could possibly lead to something serious. Don't write off people as too young (unless they are by law), too old, or too shallow. If you get their attention, start working to keep their attention. It's easier than you think.


Well, you can also sort of ask someone out and get a date without actually asking them out. It's, like, "Oh you do X at work? Wow! I think that's awesome! Well, I know you're busy and I don't have time right now, but let's get together for lunch/breakfast/whatever. I'd love to hear more about that! Cool, cya!" Easiest path to a date you'll ever get.


It's all perspective, though. Rejection is actually a good thing. It gets you closer to something meaningful, i.e. it stops you from wasting time with someone you're not compatible with.

I think you might be overly sensitive to rejection. The more people you ask out, the more rejections you're going to get. That's just part of it. Eventually you get desensitized to it. But because you're used to asking people out, it just becomes routine, or habit, and eventually you'll get a date or two just by playing the odds.

This is all in my new book, now available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon (just kidding).


I understand that, but look what you wrote next...


Right?so, how is that working out for you?


Ah?and you already mentioned a catch-22. Here's another good one. And I'm telling you, the only way you're going to get that is through more friends. You have two choices here, the way I see it: Take smaller steps, gain more friends, draw your dating pool from that set of friends/acquaintances, and work up to physical affection over time; OR learn to redirect your perceived need for physical affection to some other satisfying human interaction as a substitute for physical affection. I mean, you might have other options. I'm just not seeing it. I really think this is what you need to work on the most if you want to improve your situation.


I get it. It's like how I only talk about music with people I meet. I can't help it. That's as deep as I go.

Your problem here is you aren't really interested in other people. You have to become interested in other people, become more vested in their lives, and put MUCH less a priority on your own life and your own interests. You're going to have to work hard at being unselfish. And before you bust me for being insensitive and calling you selfish, let me point out that we are ALL selfish by nature. Use human selfishness to your advantage!! !!!1!11one!

Let me put it a different, more gentle way: It's not all about YOU, if you really want this kind of relationship.


Yeah, but if this true, you're sitting on a gold mine, man? If you feel like you're babysitting, then it's probably because people your own age are easily impressed. You've got the maturity and insight they don't have. While their behaviors are babyish at times, you might actually miss that they look up to you. You have the ability, whereas they do not, to step back, look at their behaviors and lifestyles objectively, assess what they really want, and deliver. In a nutshell, they want to be lead?so be a leader.

Now, that may not be entirely accurate when applied to your situation. I just know it's saved my life a few times. I found it easier to get around freshmen when I was a college upperclassman. As a graduate student, I was attracted to this stunningly unique-looking and very talented piano major. So when she'd accompany my studio mates for masterclasses, I'd be the first to volunteer to be her page turner. The next step was approaching her between classes, meeting for lunch, and eventually dating. She was an easy target (pardon the expression) because she was so young and inexperienced herself (in part due to a disability that I wasn't immediately aware of). We made a good pair partly because she allowed me to mentor her and walk her through her first two years of college just as much as she let me be her first bf. But also since I was more experienced at this point, I made it easy for her, and neither of us brought a whole lot of expectations to the table.

Young, "baby" types sometimes need the babysitting. They tend to like that. Not everyone, but some of them. If they're simply lagging in maturity, then all you have to do is just help them grow. It's a process we all have had to go through, and sometimes the lack of maturity can hide real gems. It's the crap you have to cut through to get to know someone that makes it frustrating, but with a little patience the most immature of us are still worth getting to know.

Doesn't always work out that way, I know. One of my exes clearly had a heart of gold, but she either screamed at me or she pushed my buttons until I became violent towards her. Yeah, we'd been together literally for years. Yeah, we helped each other through life's garbage. Yeah, she'll make a great wife someday. She's just not going to be mine!

But you get nothing if you risk nothing. Immature folks, as long as they are in the process of growing up, are worth taking under your wing.

Now, as to older people and accomplishments: Don't let that intimidate you. These people know what they've done and they're proud of that. They like for people to tell them how awesome they are. My rule #1 is people are inherently selfish and want to feel important. These people are AWESOME practice material because you're going to have a hard time getting them to shut up.

These are people you really, REALLY need to court. I can't stress this point enough. You need to surround yourself with these people, especially as young as you are. I don't mean me, I'm a loser, too. I've had my victories, I've accumulated a ton of wisdom, and I can talk as the day is long about what NOT to do. No, I mean REAL winners?hang out with these folks every chance you get.

What might happen with older folks? Well, let's put it into a dating perspective. You find a single woman who owns her own business, and, I mean, she's REALLY killing it. So you ask her about what she does, whether she's done business for anyone famous, what this person or that person is like, if/where she went to school, did she ever dream things would go this well, what kinds of problems she faced, how she got around that, etc., etc. I mean, you really have to get interested in what she does and keep her talking about it. Keep her talking long enough, she thinks you're a cool cat?not because you ARE, but because your mere presence makes her feel special. So you get to hanging out, and I mean hanging out a LOT. Doesn't matter if she's older than you?she's interested in you because you've taken an active interest in her. BAM?you just got a gf, and quite possibly a cougar (be careful with cougars?I get the impression they're looking to play, not to get into anything lasting).

I'm telling ya, you can't look at anyone as being off-limits. Don't waste your time with someone already in a relationship. Sure, there are exceptions. You can buzz around abused and broken girls who are on the way out of a relationship gone bad like you're some kind of vulture, but in my experience it's generally a bad outcome when you go around picking up strays. If you must do that, be overly cautious. You have to decide whether baggage is something you can handle. Maybe you can, I dunno?but just be careful here.

Aside from that, do pretty much whatever you want. It's not nearly as bad or difficult as you might think.

Point taken.

While we're at it, I have these really interesting insects that bear a striking resemblance to termites. Would you be interested in having a look and telling me what you think about them?

Groot feeling itchy.

Warning: Special Interest divergence.

I think there was a recent study that showed that all termites (or ants) are identical at some stage, but that certain external triggers determine if they will become soldiers, major workers, minor workers, etc. I can't remember if it was done in the queen, during the egg production process or later by nurses via certain foods or secretions. The bees have a similar mechanism as they can make new queens by feeding the pupae a special food.

Interesting that they use one basic model and then develop the different variations based on need I would guess. Like loss of a lot of soldiers in a nest invasion somehow lets them know to make lots of new ones.

Amazing what such little creatures can do with so little brain mass.

I've heard it speculated that humans can make new queens by a similar mechanism, although precisely how it works is not quite understood. It supposedly has something to do with quiche.

Really? I've thought that termites are closer to cockroaches, and aren't much genetically related to ants.

Talking about bees, do you know there are significant species of bees which are solitary? Yes, not all bees are social.
Also check the parasite bees (bee species who enter hives of other host bee species), amazing creatires.

Yes your right about ants & termites being from different lines. I just worded that confusingly. Ants decended from wasps (though both still exist) and I forget what termites came from.

Yes, I knew that about solitary bees, and the most primitive ants live in very small communities and operate more independently also.

There is one species that drops down upon its prey from tree limbs, and makes a shrill whistle or scream as it falls! The pain of the sting (to humans) is so bad it is compared to a bullet wound. The reason for the noise is not known yet. Some have compared it to the Germans in WWII putting screaming sirens on their Stuka Dive Bombers, as a terror weapon.

Yes, the royal jelly! Or royal quiche.

But that is one of the endless fascinations. The parallels of social species so tiny to us. But they have been around maybe 160 million years, to our couple of million.

Ants in particular are amazingly similar in makeup to one another. The DNA in some species is almost so identical as to make them all clones of one another. But even so, ants do have different 'personalities' so to speak. Some are braver then others (or maybe dummer), some are workaholics, some are lazy, some exhibit weird behavior. I watched one carry around a dead ants head back and forth through its tunnels for almost a day. What was it doing?

I doubt ants ever question their anthood. Its a simple question of chemical 'smell' to them. Maybe that can help the OP decide. Do you smell like a person? If so, you probably are.