honest Supreme Court Justice kicks voter id laws in the knee
23 Oct 2014, 4:39 am
When I think of the list of things I'm required to have ID on my person in order to "enjoy" my "rights," I'm amazed that voting is considered so "sacred."
Does it not occur to people that a moron with a ballot is more dangerous than a moron with a firearm?
Simple fact of law...cops can require you to show your ID if they stop you on the streets. If you don't have your ID, they can take you in to determine if you are who you claim to be. You don't see that being quashed anytime soon, but require someone to bring their photo ID to the polling place on election day and you think you just asked society to pull their own teeth.
The arguments against showing ID to vote is garbage.
I've been registered to vote in multiple locations at the same time. Registering in a new place DOES NOT invalidate your old registrations. Local laws determine how long and how hard it is for the registrar to remove you from the rolls for NOT showing up to vote. Only if you tell them to remove your name can they do it right away, and nobody tells you to do this.
Go to ANY place in the USA and obtain a list of registered voters. Determine who hasn't shown up for a few years. Tell Joe Schmo to show up and claim to be that person. How do they know it's not him? That's how easy "voter fraud" is to pull off. Between efforts to taint elections and the predominance and easy of "identity theft," ID for voting is overdue.
And as far as "disenfranchising" the poor and elderly? BULL!
Require the state to provide a state photo ID to the indigent upon request (being poor doesn't mean you can't get to the DMV). Make it easy for someone home bound to apply for their photo ID. In the end, it's a vetting process. Lie to get a fake ID and you will do jail time. Enforce it!
I went to a school that didn't observe snow days. The dean's attitude was that if they closed school for snow, the kids would go out and play (or go for a ski trip). If they can get out in the snow to play, they can get out in the snow for classes. Only commuting students (who had to brave the roads when they were iced over) were given permission to miss class.
The same goes for voting.
All these whiners saying the ID requirement is onerous like to ignore how pretty much every poor person and elderly person has little problem getting out and about when it suits them and has no problem with ID production for something they really want. Somehow, voting should be the exception.
23 Oct 2014, 6:36 am
Doesn't this mean that anyone who requires ID is being discriminatory?
A bar that cannot serve alcohol to people under 21, and thus requires ID is discriminating against minorities ?
A casino that is prohibited from allowing under 18 year old patrons, and thus requires ID is discriminating against minorities ?
The TSA agent who asks for your ID to board a plane is discriminating against minorities ?
23 Oct 2014, 7:52 am
Does it not occur to people that a moron with a ballot is more dangerous than a moron with a firearm?
Simple fact of law...cops can require you to show your ID if they stop you on the streets. If you don't have your ID, they can take you in to determine if you are who you claim to be. You don't see that being quashed anytime soon, but require someone to bring their photo ID to the polling place on election day and you think you just asked society to pull their own teeth.
The arguments against showing ID to vote is garbage.
I've been registered to vote in multiple locations at the same time. Registering in a new place DOES NOT invalidate your old registrations. Local laws determine how long and how hard it is for the registrar to remove you from the rolls for NOT showing up to vote. Only if you tell them to remove your name can they do it right away, and nobody tells you to do this.
Go to ANY place in the USA and obtain a list of registered voters. Determine who hasn't shown up for a few years. Tell Joe Schmo to show up and claim to be that person. How do they know it's not him? That's how easy "voter fraud" is to pull off. Between efforts to taint elections and the predominance and easy of "identity theft," ID for voting is overdue.
And as far as "disenfranchising" the poor and elderly? BULL!
Require the state to provide a state photo ID to the indigent upon request (being poor doesn't mean you can't get to the DMV). Make it easy for someone home bound to apply for their photo ID. In the end, it's a vetting process. Lie to get a fake ID and you will do jail time. Enforce it!
I went to a school that didn't observe snow days. The dean's attitude was that if they closed school for snow, the kids would go out and play (or go for a ski trip). If they can get out in the snow to play, they can get out in the snow for classes. Only commuting students (who had to brave the roads when they were iced over) were given permission to miss class.
The same goes for voting.
All these whiners saying the ID requirement is onerous like to ignore how pretty much every poor person and elderly person has little problem getting out and about when it suits them and has no problem with ID production for something they really want. Somehow, voting should be the exception.
I guess I have been fortunate in my life. I don't even carry an ID with me other than when I go to vote, and that was not required here until 4 years ago. I do not have a bank account and no one has ever asked to see an ID when I use my card for a purchase. Other than at the polling place I cannot require the last time in my life I was ever asked to produce an ID for anyone. I guess I am a privileged white schmuck.
23 Oct 2014, 8:05 am
Does it not occur to people that a moron with a ballot is more dangerous than a moron with a firearm?
Simple fact of law...cops can require you to show your ID if they stop you on the streets. If you don't have your ID, they can take you in to determine if you are who you claim to be. You don't see that being quashed anytime soon, but require someone to bring their photo ID to the polling place on election day and you think you just asked society to pull their own teeth.
The arguments against showing ID to vote is garbage.
I've been registered to vote in multiple locations at the same time. Registering in a new place DOES NOT invalidate your old registrations. Local laws determine how long and how hard it is for the registrar to remove you from the rolls for NOT showing up to vote. Only if you tell them to remove your name can they do it right away, and nobody tells you to do this.
Go to ANY place in the USA and obtain a list of registered voters. Determine who hasn't shown up for a few years. Tell Joe Schmo to show up and claim to be that person. How do they know it's not him? That's how easy "voter fraud" is to pull off. Between efforts to taint elections and the predominance and easy of "identity theft," ID for voting is overdue.
And as far as "disenfranchising" the poor and elderly? BULL!
Require the state to provide a state photo ID to the indigent upon request (being poor doesn't mean you can't get to the DMV). Make it easy for someone home bound to apply for their photo ID. In the end, it's a vetting process. Lie to get a fake ID and you will do jail time. Enforce it!
I went to a school that didn't observe snow days. The dean's attitude was that if they closed school for snow, the kids would go out and play (or go for a ski trip). If they can get out in the snow to play, they can get out in the snow for classes. Only commuting students (who had to brave the roads when they were iced over) were given permission to miss class.
The same goes for voting.
All these whiners saying the ID requirement is onerous like to ignore how pretty much every poor person and elderly person has little problem getting out and about when it suits them and has no problem with ID production for something they really want. Somehow, voting should be the exception.
There is no way that any sane person can deny that fact. More voters at the polls decreases likelihood of a Conservative winning, because Conservatives cannot win the majority vote on their policies and platform. It wont happen. Not any more, and they know it So do you.
23 Oct 2014, 2:27 pm
ok so make it start right after this election. gives everyone two years to get an id. you saying people can't get an id in two years?
f**k I carry 4 types of id on me every day. at the store i work at we are suppose to ask for id when anyone uses a credit car or if they charger their account. most everyone in my state except illegal immigrants have an id. it cost like $20 and last like 15 years.
we get mail ballots in my state. i could go vote for me, my mom, my sister, my brother, my friend etc if I wanted to. you could get as many ballots sent to your house as you want. if they find out you get in trouble but thats only if they find out.
as is my family likely won't vote cause of lazyniss. i've picked their ballots off the floor 5 times already.
23 Oct 2014, 5:11 pm
We scraped plans to have national ID, in UK becuase it was unpopular, and considered a waste of money.
The only downside is we constantly asked to re-register to vote. It is a bit of a pain, but a small price to pay. It there is no change it can be done by text message.
There are two electoral rolls, one where all the information is public, or you can ask to be on a list with limited information available to public.
My understanding is several US state have ID cards but not sure if it is compulsory.
I mean realistically everyone has a social security number or equivalents. Many people have passport number, driver license. Most have birth certificates. What more is needed?
24 Oct 2014, 5:16 am
There is no way that any sane person can deny that fact. More voters at the polls decreases likelihood of a Conservative winning, because Conservatives cannot win the majority vote on their policies and platform. It wont happen. Not any more, and they know it So do you.
I won't say that SOME people backing these laws don't have an agenda and throw stuff in that clearly makes it hard for someone to be able to comply, but if you want to wag your finger at conservatives, I can come up with countless evils done by liberals...gerrymandering among the top 5.
The simple fact is that when you erect no barriers, you get chaos. All my life, voting had an ID requirement. Usually, you had to produce the voter registration card issued to you when you registered to vote and were assigned a polling location. Without this card, anyone could walk in and claim to be you...unless the poll worker just happens to know you personally.
This is the norm in urban areas. Without photo ID, or a card only the registered voter should possess, there is no viable safeguard against fraudulent voting.
Again, when people think something is important enough, they make an effort to get it done. I know they increased the requirements to get an ID/DL after 9/11, but they could issue an ID for voting purposes at a more reasonable level of proof of identity. If you don't care enough about your vote to get that ID, you can't claim to be disenfranchised.
Calling such laws a poll tax is laughable. Require the law to provide the ID for free if the applicant claims to be impoverished. Exercising any "right" comes with responsibilities. Want to have freedom of speech? You are legally liable if you defame a person's reputation or you incite a riot and people are harmed. Want to own and carry a firearm? You are legally liable if your actions harm an innocent person. Want to vote? Having to prove you are who you claim to be and that you legally reside in the voting district you are trying to cast a ballot in are perfectly reasonable responsibilities.
24 Oct 2014, 2:22 pm
Voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem.
Its probably trivially easy to vote more than once in any given election in the US, or to vote if you aren't legally entitled to. That said, I've never seen any evidence what-so-ever of widespread voter fraud in the US. So why do some people act as if they perceive this as a problem that needs to be solved?
This is a democracy. We ought to be erring on the side of letting people vote, instead of erring on the side of disenfranchising people, at least so long as there's no evidence of real voter fraud. Barriers that make it more difficult to vote ultimately have the effect of preventing some people from voting. Disenfranchising voters is an act that could not possibly be more against the spirit of our country and what it is supposed to stand for.
IMHO, its far worse to prevent someone from voting who is otherwise someone who has a legitimate right to vote, than it is to allow a few people to vote twice. Those who disagree ought to be voluntarily surrendering their own right to vote before they go out and advocate stripping other people of their right to vote, in the name of solving some problem that they are supposedly so concerned with.
What it all gets down to is, sadly, one side - the side that always claims to be the patriotic one - engaging in what amounts to the most un-American behavior possible, that being seeking to prevent one's political opponents from voting.
25 Oct 2014, 11:33 am
"honest Supreme Court Justice kicks voter id laws in the knee"
I can't seem to get past the title.
"honest" Supreme Court???????????? HONEST.....really???????
In my estimation these are the most "dishonest" people in the country.
EACH of these justices swore a solemn oath to honestly serve without prejudging or prejudice. And each and every one swore their decisions would only be swayed by the facts before them. But everyone knows this is a lie.
Just look at their voting records.....we (the public) now are so jaded we "expect" them to take their oath in vain and vote according to the party appointing them. These degenerates have their minds made up (for them) before the issue hits their desks.
And the occasional "swing voters" I believe are only having other personal agendas at the time.
EDIT: Cleverly avoiding questions during Congressional confirmation hearings is not "honest" in my view.
25 Oct 2014, 5:42 pm
We don't even have that. If you can't prove you age they don't serve you. But if you look you age they won't ask, generally.
The rule of thumb is they ask if the person could be up to 5 years older than legal.
Haven't been asked in years, but I find it funny when the clerk looks about twelve asking someone for id.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,778
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Oct 2014, 8:25 pm
The state should supply all registered voters with valid ID free of charge - problem solved. But as voter ID laws are really not about discouraging voter fraud, but to keep certain registered voters from casting a ballot, conservatives will always come up with an excuse not to provide said free ID.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
sonofghandi
Veteran
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,540
Location: Cleveland, OH (and not the nice part)
27 Oct 2014, 3:04 pm
I think that identification for voting purposes should be about as strict as identification for medical treatment: 2 identifiers. If they can provide their SSN and their address, they can vote. I just moved to Virginia, and I will not be able to vote in this election. I moved too close to election time (September), and was unable to get a VA driver's license (or other appropriate ID) in time for registration cutoff. I am still waiting for an official birth certificate so I can get my state driver's license. Since I pay cash for rent (no lease) and everything is included, I apparently can't prove that I live here (although a valid US birth certificate somehow proves that I do).
This voter ID BS is political bull. Both sides have always tried to discourage opposition voting, but the Republicans have taken it to a whole new level of absurdity in the past half decade.
If you were really concerned about voter fraud, you should push for a national voter registration system, where moving localities would be a mere matter of updating your address.
_________________
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" -Nietzsche
28 Oct 2014, 5:37 pm
Sorry I'm missing something?
You have an electoral roll correct? You are required to verify you address when registering, well in advance correct? You are assigned a fixed polling station correct? You are sent a polling card correct?
What more do you need? Or do you not register to vote before? I heard they do that in the Netherlands, but that is a small country.
Basically if you failed to register to vote, and you are not on the registered you can't vote in the UK. But the give plenty of warning and re-registering is not that hard.
There have been some isolated examples of voter fraud, but that is mostly people tricked into handing over their card.
29 Oct 2014, 4:16 am
You have an electoral roll correct? You are required to verify you address when registering, well in advance correct? You are assigned a fixed polling station correct? You are sent a polling card correct?
What more do you need? Or do you not register to vote before? I heard they do that in the Netherlands, but that is a small country.
It varies from state-to-state. What you described is how I remember it being done as a child.
Then, they pushed "motor voter" where you could register to vote at the DMV. Not a "bad" idea, but then they want to eliminate or minimize the time period you must register by in order to be allowed to vote in the next election. Ideally, you would get a "provisional" ballot that would not officially count until the vetting of your application is completed, but some would contest that registrars don't get enough time as it is to vet every person who registers to vote.
While a voter registration card could be faked by modern technology, I'm sure one printed out on fraud-resistant paper would help solve the problem. The issue is in places populated enough that poll workers do not know people individually. There is nothing stopping someone from taking another person's card and claiming to be them.
In the USA, there is abundant evidence that voter fraud goes on...not nationwide, and not always statewide, but in areas where it can be pulled off, shenanigans is known to go on in every election cycle. Sometimes the poll workers are the culprits. Hell, they want to go to electronic voting, and it was exposed early on that any tech-savvy person could devise a system to "hack" the voting machine and tamper with the outcome in such a way that the registrar would never know. Some machines are immune to inspection by the local registrar, so if it's been tampered with, they can't inspect for it.
Go back to the paper ballots.
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