Why is "Ghosting" Socially Acceptable?

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yellowtamarin
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26 Oct 2014, 7:22 pm

Is this an issue after just one date? I've had a number of first dates where neither I nor the other person has been in contact afterwards, to me this means "not interested" and it's no big deal at all.

I don't see a problem really with ending communication as a way of ending the whole thing, in the earliest stages of dating. Like if I went on a date and then texted afterwards "I had a really nice time and would love to catch up again", that's prompting them to let me know if they agree, and I'd prefer it if they did respond either way. But if they don't respond, that's my answer and I'll leave it alone.

I certainly have had instances where I have told my date afterwards that I am not interested and then they have pressed me to tell them why, then when I tell them why, they tell me they can change that or that I should give them another chance or whatever. It does make it harder the next time to feel inclined to send that "not interested" text.

So that's my opinion when it's just the one date. The closer you are with the person, the more impolite it is to "ghost"/"fade", IMO.



aspiemike
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26 Oct 2014, 8:00 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Simply ghost the ghoster.


The amusing part about this is how everyone hates getting a taste of their own medicine.


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auntblabby
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26 Oct 2014, 8:13 pm

aspiemike wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Simply ghost the ghoster.


The amusing part about this is how everyone hates getting a taste of their own medicine.

it seems we're all hypocrites about something. otherwise we'd have no need of incarnating.



Jjancee
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26 Oct 2014, 9:03 pm

rainydaykid wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
@Boo: Let him. I have a google+ account. I'm not hiding from anybody. I'm just not going to do the work for anybody. Unless I already know you fairly well, I confirm/deny NOTHING. I've even dropped clues as to my whereabouts all over WP. Here's a hint: I live in one of the most racially tense and most economically distressed regions of the United States. And there's this MASSIVE river that runs within a few miles of my house. I've even mentioned that I appear on TV regularly. And supposedly I'm on an upcoming "docu-comedy" reality series set for December on TruTV. I'm well-acquainted with local police, lawyers, various church leaders, and even politicians in the area, not to mention a few affluent farming families. Heck, I've even posted youtube videos of myself in the art/writing/music sub forum. If someone on WP really were to pull a stunt like that, it wouldn't take long for anyone to piece together what happened.

Oh, and I live in a rough neighborhood. Next-door neighbor is a cop, and just across the street is a guy who keeps his sidearm prominently displayed. You really, REALLY don't want to cause trouble out here. I learned the value of diplomacy early in life, but even I've had an unfortunate run-in with a particularly nasty neighbor over a little misunderstanding involving his former gf's punk kid. I'm able to defuse a situation pretty quick. Out here, we're not normally so quick to trust outsiders. Cause a scene here, and you're considered LUCKY if the sheriff's deputy catches you first. At least a night in jail will give you some guarantee of survival. So?all I have to say is good luck with that!


I don't track people down. I also prefer diplomacy. With that said, I am a combat veteran with extensive private firearms training. My handgun is a last resort only, but if it comes out, they are dead before they even see it. With a handgun being weaker, I do 5 shot rapid fire drills to the chest, head, and neck. If you are shooting someone, they need to be stopped instantly. A CNS hit is the only guarantee of this.

And yes, I am entitled to an explanation. It is common courtesy. If someone stops contacting me, I have no idea why. They might be in the hospital or something else.


You are NOT entitled to an explanation. You WANT an explanation.

Armed + DELUSIONALLY over-entitled = Elliott Rodger.

A truism is that folks do stuff they WANT to do. A girl not calling to give you an "explanation"? Is nevertheless communicating with you. The message is GO AWAY!

If the girl is in the hospital? She will call you when she gets out IF and ONLY IF she wants to talk to you!



marshall
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26 Oct 2014, 10:00 pm

Jjancee wrote:
marshall wrote:
The_Underground_Man wrote:
marshall wrote:
It is about avoiding "in the moment" awkwardness. To say it's about sparing pain is self-serving false rationalization. There's nothing altruistic about being rude. It's totally selfish behavior.


Unless, of course, the person really does want to avoid hurting someone. Have you ever rejected someone? I have. I was not attracted to her. I told her that I thought we ought to remain friends. Should I have instead instructed her to lose weight, maybe improve her wardrobe? I don't think so, and I think doing so would have made me look incredibly insensitive at best. More importantly, I didn't want to needlessly hurt her. I genuinely cared about her feelings in a way that wasn't "self-serving false rationalization."

You just changed the topic again. I'm not letting you get away with that. We're talking about suddenly IGNORING someone BEFORE rejecting them.

Quote:
Anyway, I said before that I don't think most no-contact rejections are done to avoid causing pain. I think the usual reasoning is more straight-forward: most people regard going no-contact as an acceptable form of rejection that avoids awkwardness for both parties, and some of us, per our diagnoses, struggle to internalize this.

IGNORING someone doesn't avoid causing pain. It avoids the momentary discomfort of being upfront for THE ONE DOING THE REJECTING. It makes the REJECTED feel MUCH worse. Therefore it is selfish.


The reason WHY a girl abruptly cuts off contact / ghosts you is ultimately irrelevant - if she doesn't wanna talk to you, LET IT GO.

You can't make her talk to you. You can sulk about her ghosting you, rant that she's ghosted you, rave rhat her ghosting you is a deliberate act of cruelty as much as you like... which will make you miserable and, WILL NOT COMPEL HER TO TALK TO YOU.


When did I say that I want to compel someone to talk me? I said that it is rude behavior, because IT IS RUDE. I have no interest in continuing contact with rude people. I have no interest in being friends with rude people. I delete their number and forget about them. I also think you getting on your high horse and speaking to me in all caps is rude. Go f**k yourself.



rainydaykid
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26 Oct 2014, 10:07 pm

Jjancee wrote:
rainydaykid wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
@Boo: Let him. I have a google+ account. I'm not hiding from anybody. I'm just not going to do the work for anybody. Unless I already know you fairly well, I confirm/deny NOTHING. I've even dropped clues as to my whereabouts all over WP. Here's a hint: I live in one of the most racially tense and most economically distressed regions of the United States. And there's this MASSIVE river that runs within a few miles of my house. I've even mentioned that I appear on TV regularly. And supposedly I'm on an upcoming "docu-comedy" reality series set for December on TruTV. I'm well-acquainted with local police, lawyers, various church leaders, and even politicians in the area, not to mention a few affluent farming families. Heck, I've even posted youtube videos of myself in the art/writing/music sub forum. If someone on WP really were to pull a stunt like that, it wouldn't take long for anyone to piece together what happened.

Oh, and I live in a rough neighborhood. Next-door neighbor is a cop, and just across the street is a guy who keeps his sidearm prominently displayed. You really, REALLY don't want to cause trouble out here. I learned the value of diplomacy early in life, but even I've had an unfortunate run-in with a particularly nasty neighbor over a little misunderstanding involving his former gf's punk kid. I'm able to defuse a situation pretty quick. Out here, we're not normally so quick to trust outsiders. Cause a scene here, and you're considered LUCKY if the sheriff's deputy catches you first. At least a night in jail will give you some guarantee of survival. So?all I have to say is good luck with that!


I don't track people down. I also prefer diplomacy. With that said, I am a combat veteran with extensive private firearms training. My handgun is a last resort only, but if it comes out, they are dead before they even see it. With a handgun being weaker, I do 5 shot rapid fire drills to the chest, head, and neck. If you are shooting someone, they need to be stopped instantly. A CNS hit is the only guarantee of this.

And yes, I am entitled to an explanation. It is common courtesy. If someone stops contacting me, I have no idea why. They might be in the hospital or something else.


You are NOT entitled to an explanation. You WANT an explanation.

Armed + DELUSIONALLY over-entitled = Elliott Rodger.

A truism is that folks do stuff they WANT to do. A girl not calling to give you an "explanation"? Is nevertheless communicating with you. The message is GO AWAY!

If the girl is in the hospital? She will call you when she gets out IF and ONLY IF she wants to talk to you!


Save your anti gun liberal horse$hit for someone else. I have no desire to hurt anyone.

They feel that they don't have to give an explanation, I feel they do. Both are opinions, and neither is right.



marshall
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26 Oct 2014, 10:30 pm

The_Underground_Man wrote:
marshall wrote:
The_Underground_Man wrote:
marshall wrote:
It is about avoiding "in the moment" awkwardness. To say it's about sparing pain is self-serving false rationalization. There's nothing altruistic about being rude. It's totally selfish behavior.


Unless, of course, the person really does want to avoid hurting someone. Have you ever rejected someone? I have. I was not attracted to her. I told her that I thought we ought to remain friends. Should I have instead instructed her to lose weight, maybe improve her wardrobe? I don't think so, and I think doing so would have made me look incredibly insensitive at best. More importantly, I didn't want to needlessly hurt her. I genuinely cared about her feelings in a way that wasn't "self-serving false rationalization."

You just changed the topic again. I'm not letting you get away with that. We're talking about suddenly IGNORING someone BEFORE rejecting them.

Quote:
Anyway, I said before that I don't think most no-contact rejections are done to avoid causing pain. I think the usual reasoning is more straight-forward: most people regard going no-contact as an acceptable form of rejection that avoids awkwardness for both parties, and some of us, per our diagnoses, struggle to internalize this.

IGNORING someone doesn't avoid causing pain. It avoids the momentary discomfort of being upfront for THE ONE DOING THE REJECTING. It makes the REJECTED feel MUCH worse. Therefore it is selfish.


I have not changed the topic. We're talking about cases like the following: you go on a date or two, then suddenly you don't hear from her. She doesn't answer texts, calls, whatever. You never receive a clear rejection. My anecdote was not an example of this, but it wasn't intended to be: I presented it to dispute your claim that "to say it's about sparing pain is self-serving false rationalization." We often do consider the rejected person's feelings, and I think this can be shown even in the sorts of examples we've been discussing. My argument for that goes as follows:
The given anecdote doesn't support your argument because it's a completely different scenario.

1) When we reject someone, we ought to minimize emotional pain.
2) Some rejections cause more pain than others. For example, "you're an awkward loser" causes more pain than "I don't think we suit each other."
3) Just as "I don't think we suit each other" causes less pain than "you're an awkward loser," no-contact seems to cause less pain than "I don't think we suit each other."
4) Therefore, to minimize pain, we ought to go no-contact.

Now, you will contend with 2) and argue that no-contact doesn't actually hurt less. I mostly agree with that statement, and have said elsewhere that I doubt 2) routinely obtains in the real world, which is to say that I don't think it ends up being the case that no-contact hurts less than "I don't think we suit each other" or a similar rejection (especially for someone with Asperger's/autism). Indeed, for many of us, it hurts more. But despite this, I still think it's fair for a person to think along these lines. The argument makes sense and considers the rejected party's feelings; I also imagine that 2) applies to some people, whether they know it or not.

I agree with 2 but strongly disagree with second statement of 3. Suddenly going no contact with someone you've had several dates with and communicated with for a couple months or more is rude no matter how you split it.

Quote:
Finally: for all I've said above, I do not actually think most people go no-contact to minimize pain. I think the real reasons consist in a fear of the man's reaction (as others have described), an avoidance of mutual awkwardness (because rejections are awkward for both parties), and the fact that many people regard no-contact as an acceptable form of rejection.

It avoids temporary awkwardness but actually causes worse feelings because there's an element of disrespect in completely avoiding someone. Also, this isn't a man vs. woman issue. Women don't like it when men reject them this way. I've heard it plenty from both men and women.



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26 Oct 2014, 11:24 pm

rainydaykid wrote:
Jjancee wrote:

You aren't entitled to closure. Not from from folks you know well and DEFINITELY not from someone you barely know (eg have dated casually, not exclusively). The folks who "ghost" you? Are entitled to do so.

I find it creepy as ALL get out when a guy I've gone out with a few times (eg 5-6 dates, no conversation about dating exclusively, so we were NOT officially dating) and no longer wish to see calls/texts/emails me to demand an explanation. That I don't give because I don't have one (well, I do: it's "I'm not interested and do not wish to see you ever again").

You aren't entitled to closure, demanding explanations from girls who've made their intentions clear (CUT OFF ALL COMMUNICATION CUZ THEY AREN'T INTERESTED IN YOU) will just annoy them and NOT result in closure so, well, let it go.


Sorry, but this is incorrect. I am entitled to closure, even just a simple text saying not interested is fine. I wouldn't consider 5-6 dates a few times, by then you show interest by that many dates. Generally by that many dates, you have had sex, so that to me is the unwritten exclusive thing. Once I have sex with a girl, it is implied that we are exclusive from that point on unless one of us breaks it off, and notifies the other. Don't leave someone hanging, is all anyone asks. I don't think that is so difficult.

I hate the term creepy, it is a bs feminist liberal cop out.


If they stop talking, that's a big fat hint that you should start finding your own closure.
If someone is interested, they won't cut all contact.


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Who_Am_I
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26 Oct 2014, 11:25 pm

Quote:
rainydaykid wrote:
I hate the term creepy, it is a bs feminist liberal cop out.

You been put in the creep zone?


This guy thought it was ok to post a picture of his penis in the adult forum here.
If you don't want to be put in the creep zone...


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Who_Am_I
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26 Oct 2014, 11:27 pm

Quote:
I'm really good looking, intelligent, and funny


You sound like such a supreme gentleman; why aren't women falling all over you? What's wrong with them?


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26 Oct 2014, 11:30 pm

rdos wrote:
Jjancee wrote:
No such rule exists. You're exclusive when you have a conversation with the other person and you both AGREE to be exclusive and not one second before!!


Not in my world. I would never trust a girl that didn't behave exclusively from the start, and that did this out of her own free will, without any negotiation. Because there would be nothing that stops such unreliable girl from just ending a relationship when she found somebody else or for whatever strange reason she might come up with. After all, girls are entitled to break up at any point, even when they have agreed to be exclusive, and even when they have been married for a while, so agreeing to be exclusive means nothing. The ultimate test is if they use this in an irresponsible manner or not. Thus, I would never trust a girl that behaves in the way you describe (break up without giving a good reason after 5-6 dates) or feels she is entitled to behave like that. Such girls are simply not relationship material, and should be blacklisted at dating sites.


That depends on how long you've known the person before you start dating.
If you go on a first date with someone who you've known a week, it's unreasonable for either of you to expect exclusivity at that stage; you simply don't know each other well enough to know if the other person is worth forsaking all others for.


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rdos
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27 Oct 2014, 3:13 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
That depends on how long you've known the person before you start dating.
If you go on a first date with someone who you've known a week, it's unreasonable for either of you to expect exclusivity at that stage; you simply don't know each other well enough to know if the other person is worth forsaking all others for.


Disagree. A person that cannot be exclusive for a week voluntarily is not worth dating at all. It shows they favor quantity over quality, and it increases chances they will continue with this behavior later on as new people appear in their lives.

I once broke up with a girl after seeing her a single time. I knew she had a crush on me, but I had to do it because I got into contact with another girl that I had kind of waited for a few months. I think it was a nasty thing to do to her, and I certainly didn't feel I was "entitled" to it, rather that I had to do it. In retrospect, I don't think it was ok, rather that I was a stupid jerk that hurt her. However, it is obvious that a few girls here think this is normal behavior that they can do regularly without any regret that they hurt people.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Oct 2014, 3:37 am

This thread needs Ghostbusters now, nasty...nasty marshmallowed ghosts here.

Who_Am_I, it's time for some ghostbustering action.



auntblabby
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27 Oct 2014, 4:17 am

it needs LOVE. so it can at least live up to the name of its subforum.



Stargazer43
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27 Oct 2014, 5:36 am

auntblabby wrote:
it needs LOVE. so it can at least live up to the name of its subforum.


Agreed, there's way too much anger in this thread right now!



The_Underground_Man
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27 Oct 2014, 7:00 am

marshall wrote:
I agree with 2 but strongly disagree with second statement of 3. Suddenly going no contact with someone you've had several dates with and communicated with for a couple months or more is rude no matter how you split it.


That's a mistake on my part--I originally had only statements 2, 3, and 4 (and hence the original 2 is now 3) but added in 1 later. So I meant that you'd contend with 3 and that 3 applies to some people.

marshall wrote:
It avoids temporary awkwardness but actually causes worse feelings because there's an element of disrespect in completely avoiding someone. Also, this isn't a man vs. woman issue. Women don't like it when men reject them this way. I've heard it plenty from both men and women.


Like I said, I more or less agree with this. I was making a case for why someone might think, prior to experience, that no-contact will hurt less.