Is America Truly a Christian Nation?

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To me, the argument that America is a Christian nation is pretty laughable. The idea that we were founded on Christian principles is a pretty shaky argument, but I'm mainly talking about the America of today. Looking at our history, we're arguably one of the most war-hungry nations on the face of the planet. We hardly ever go a decade without being involved in some sort of major military conflict, and most of them have been largely unnecessary (it seems pretty obvious that the last war we needed to involve ourselves in was WWII. Every war since then has been a complete waste of human life, founded on very unclear basis', with no real results to justify it). How can a country built on blood claim to worship a man who preached love and peace? We have the resources to EASILY feed, house, and clothe every single man, woman, and child in this country several times over. But we don't engage in these Christian pursuits, because there's no money to be made in it. Taking care of people isn't profitable; murdering brown people the world over is. Would Jesus be proud of a country like this? I just can't fathom it.

For anyone wondering, I am an American, and an agnostic who leans heavily towards atheism (I was raised in the church and left it when I learned to think critically). Before anyone jumps down my throat about being "un-American", remember, this country was founded by rebels who believed in Government transparency. Questioning the fabric of our country and culture is about as American of a thing as you can do. I know this is a question that's probably going to push a lot of buttons, and obviously I have a pretty strong opinion...not trying to upset people, just think this is a question worth seriously thinking about.

I am deeply grateful to the men and women who made the US fundamentally a secular, this-world-oriented, Aristotelian nation. Had they not done so, most of us wouldn't be alive; those who were would mostly eke out a precarious living as subsistence farmers.

For a time when many countries were ruled according to strict Christian principles, see the Dark Ages.

America has the largest welfare programs in the world. That is why many people want to immigrate.



What ? What "brown people"? America kills white people? Iraq, Afghanistan ... and black people .... Somali and pirates

Our welfare system may be good, but it's still ridiculous that there are people starving on the street given our resources, ESPECIALLY given the billions we spend on war.

By "brown people" I mean people with brown skin, which is a general descriptor for people in the Middle East. Regardless of skin color, murder is murder.

Just because the majority of people claim to be Christian doesn't excuse the extremely un-Christian policies we employ. So far you're focusing on semantics, not any of the points I've made.

When you take the Constitution into account, there is no reason that the US should be considered a Christian nation. Yeah, majority of US citizens identify themselves as being. Some type of Christian, but that really shouldn't interfere with our government. Separation of church and state, remember?

That said, I'm pretty sure that it was an Islamic nation that first recognized US independence, and that there were a number of ideas that were taken from Islam. I can't post any links right now, as I'm on my phone, but the first chance I get I will edit this and provide appropriate links.

Then again, I could be wrong on the last part. Will edit to confirm which one it is.

I voted "used to be". Yes, I know that the founding fathers were deists. However, America is more than just a handful of rich white guys.
Now, Christians are Christian in name only. Google,"youtube al frankin supply side Jesus."
I love telling fundamentalists that they worship the anti-christ. They worship supply side Jesus the exact opposite (anti) of what Jesus was and taught.
I am an agnostic atheist.

Is it a Christian nation? Well, if America is a nation of any religion, its probably Christianity, but its not so straightforward.

IIRC, something like 70% of Americans self-identify as belonging to one denomination of Christianity or another. So by sheer numbers, most of us are Christian. That said, some people are a lot more religious than others. Plus, at least in theory, we have separation between church and state - between religion and government - even if not always in practice.

But it is the smaller number of very religious Christians who tend to be some of the most vocal and influential people politically, especially within the Republican party. So even though our government is supposedly secular, they try their best to remove the barriers between government and religion and to integrate their religion and the law. To me this sort of behavior couldn't be more un-American. The first colonists who came to America did so to escape religious persecution in England. The founders went out of their way to ensure separation between church and state. But the religious, politically active Christians of today have tried to turn the whole thing on its head - most of the founders were Christian, they say, they mention god in our founding documents, etc., so apparently we're supposed to allow Christian beliefs to enter into our laws despite the fact that the founders specifically passed the 1st amendment.

Having said all that, yes, if you compare the actions of our government and society as a whole to what Christian teachings supposedly are, we come up way short. Fighting wars, starting wars, not nearly enough concern for those less fortunate than ourselves, a lot more hatred than love....

Actually, for a first world country we have the worst infant mortality, least education and most poverty. You should stop reading "the right scoop" internet site and get real!
85 of the world's richest individuals own more than the bottom half of the entire world's population!!
I guess, according to you, they earned it!

"It used to be, but isn't any more."

As any person who has actually read the entire Bible (and not just the nice parts) can tell you, the Christian values of slavery, subjugation of women, and conquest by genocide are no longer at the forefront of American culture.

Even Jesus Himself did not speak out against slave-ownership or the repression of women as second-class citizens, and Joshua was commanded by The Great Almighty to lay siege to Jericho, kill everyone there, and take their treasure and land.

When was the last time that America attacked another country for no other reason that to lay hands on its wealth?

Oh, yeah ... right ... all that oil and stuff ...

Maybe this country is still a Christian nation, after all!

What IS a "Christian nation"?

Can you point to any examples?

What would such a thing look like if we saw it?

How does the USA compare that place (where ever it is)?

Fnord. Good to have you back.

Oh, and in response to the notion that we were ever a Christian nation, I'd point out that the Christo-deist god and Jesus get absolutely zero mention whatsoever in the entire Constitution. The sole "exception" being that the signatory section at the end does say "Year of our Lord 1787", but that's a custom of dating reference, NOT endorsement of belief.

In short, the US is not and never was a Christian, deist, or other theologically-based country.

Good question. It's tough, because I doubt that one has ever existed...to me, a Christian nation would be one that actually employs the values Jesus taught in it's policies. And honestly, when you look at Jesus's message (loving everybody, taking care of the weak and sick, viewing money and wealth as evil), the man was basically a socialist. No communism has ever worked because it's just too easy to corrupt, but IF anyone ever came up with a peaceful, functional, communal-based country, that'd be pretty Christian. Just having a nation that's not built on blood would be a good start. Come to think of it, Switzerland (largely stays out of war, is currently proposing a national basic income for every single citizen), could be seen as relatively Christian in it's practices.

As far as the USA comparing to it...we're a war-hungry country that uses one of the most Darwinian economies Man has ever come up with. When other countries call America "The Great Devil", I can see where they're coming from. Power and peace don't coincide, and we're very, very powerful.

These were very common values at the time. You can't impose modern, first world values on an entirely different culture thousands of years in the past. Maybe God wasn't trying to reform the cultural values of the Israelites? Jesus didn't talk about nuclear weapons. Do you think he approved of them then? His ministry only lasted for 3 years according to the Bible. Maybe, what with eating and sleeping and occasionally just saying "Hi. Nice weather isn't it?" to people, he didn't have time to comment on every social issue affecting every nation throughout history. Also, you might have noticed that Jesus doesn?t appear in every book in the Bible. Some of the 62 books that don't feature him comment on slavery. Jericho is kind of hard to go into because it's complicated. However,. I am willing to try on a more appropriate thread in this forum. Also, Jews aren't Christians. Not even Jews from thousands of years ago. This is going off topic a bit, since this is supposed to be about America as a Christian nation. To get back to the matter at hand:

I would say that, if the majority of people in the USA are Christians, then it's a Christian nation. However, I agree with naturalplastic that we need a specific definition of "Christian nation" before we can talk intelligibly about this. If you want to talk about any other issues to do with the Bible (slavery etc...) then I'm happy to do so in a more suitable place. Just start a thread about it if you wish. Ignorance of what the Bible actually says, in order to prove that Christianity or God is evil always annoys me.

The simple point of the matter is that if people want America to become a "Christian" nation, they must (among other things):

• Forget about physical evidence in criminal trials, for only the verbal testimony of two or more "witnesses" shall be needed - "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." (Deuteronomy 17:6, KJV)
  
• Allow to be persecuted, anyone who speaks out against the Established Religious Order (The Crucifixion of Jesus - see the Four Gospels; and The Stoning of Stephen - Acts 6:9 through 7:60).
  
• The buying, owning and selling of slaves (Deuteronomy 15:12-18).
  
• The right of a man to sell his own daughter as a slave - "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." (Deuteronomy 15:7).
  
• Mandatory death sentences for murder - "He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death." (Deuteronomy 15:12).
  
• Legally sanctioned revenge - "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." (Deuteronomy 15:24-25)
  
• Mandatory death sentences for witchcraft - "You will not allow a witch to live" (Exodus 22:16 ... don't forget, it takes only two people to say "She's a witch!" for her to be convicted of witchcraft).
  
• Mandatory death sentences for worshiping any one other than God - "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:20 ... all it takes is two witnesses, whether or no an actual sacrifice ever took place).
  
• Mandatory death sentences for anyone who 'curses' his or her parents - "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head." (Leviticus 20:9 ... what if the two parents, as witnesses, both lie and say that their unwanted Autistic son or daughter has 'cursed' them?).
  
• Mandatory death sentences for homosexuality - "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (Leviticus 20:13).

Don't forget, that even though these are all "Old Testament" laws, they were still being practiced during the time of the early Christian church.

Welcome to Christian America.

Last edited by Fnord on 29 Oct 2014, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJYY1CFKzTg

I don't know, you tell me.

Jesus approved of slavery.