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rachel46
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Midwest US
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: Need insight from anyone on the spectrum (I'm a parent) |
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I've noticed that there a lot of very smart, creative people on this board and many who are content with having no friends or little contact with other people. As the parent of a 10 yr. old son on the spectrum one of the main things that is emphasized( by counselors, other parents) is you have to find friends for your kids, you have to teach them how to make and keep friends or they are going to become someone akin to the Unibomber and live a dreadful, lonely life. I personally, have some friends &, acquaintances, have had good friends, have lost good friends, have a husband, son, extended family and yet I have no problem being alone- in fact I crave it. Yet, it seems impossible not to have some contact with others in this world so my questions are:
1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)?
2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him)
3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life?
4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way?
5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends?
Thanks for letting me pick your brain and sorry if the questions were intrusive or offensive to you in any way. |
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Sopho
Emu Egg
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 13905
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Need insight from anyone on the spectrum (I'm a parent) |
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| rachel46 wrote: | | 1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)? |
I don't really the feel the need to have friends. I would like to have a relationship with someone one day, but even then it would have to be someone who shared my interests and gave me space when I needed it etc. As for just friends though, I'm happy spending time alone really.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him) |
I was not diagnosed until I was 18 (I'm nearly 19 now) so my family didn't know I had AS unil last year. Although they did realised I was different and tried to encourage me to go out more, make friends etc. Up until I found out I had AS, I did try to form friendships with people, but that wasn't because it was what I wanted myself, but because I felt that that was what I should want. ie. Everyone else my age did this, therefore I felt that I should too. Now I'm perfectly happy spending time no my own, as long as I still have my family.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life? |
I am much happier now I don't bother trying to involve myself in social activities. Last year I'd try and force myself to go out to the cinema with people etc, but it was stressful and I never really enjoyed it anyway. Whereas now I can walk down to the museum on my own or with my family, or just spend time at home, and I'm OK with that. I much prefer it this way.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way? |
I think that's mainly because most doctors/psychiatrists/parents are NT and therefore they assume that it is a problem which needs to be corrected. It seems mostly to be people trying to do what's best for kids, but seeing it from an NTs perspective, rather than someone with Aspergers/Autism etc.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends? |
I think really it depends on your son individually. Some people with AS and other ASDs would like to have friendships more than others. If he seems happy as he is, then I don't see it as being anything to worry about. Whereas, if he does want to make friends, there will be ways you can help him to do that.
The way I see it is, it's not completely necessary to have frienships with people in order to be happy. Some people need that and others don't. With me, as long as I have my family, then I'm content with being on my own and focussing on my interests. I guess it depends on your son. If he would be happier with friends, then that would be good to try and help him there. But with a lot of us, it's actually more stressful trying to keep and maintain friendships.
Good luck with your son anyway. I hope things go well with this, whichever way it goes.  |
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beentheredonethat
Grouchy Old Man
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: rachael46 |
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First, you probably ought to take this to the parents forum. You'll get more answers. Second, as a parent (with AS) I didn't like not having friends, so i want out and I made a few, but we were never very close. It didn't stop me from getting married to someone I've been with for nearly 20 years.
My son seemed to be that way, but in fact, he's just being choosy. That's fine. It's hard, but it's fine.
You probably ought to back off. Things change, and he'll have to find his own friends if he wants them. If you force things, you'll wind up making him mad and compromising your own sanity.
Good luck.
Beentheredonethat
Last edited by beentheredonethat on Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2538
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | . . . one of the main things that is emphasized( by counselors, other parents) is you have to find friends for your kids, you have to teach them how to make and keep friends or they are going to become someone akin to the Unibomber and live a dreadful, lonely life. |
This is an illogical conclusion. The Unibomber was a criminal, an immoral person who sought to hurt others. Loneliness doesn't begat immorality.
1)People on the spectrum have various needs and wants and some desire company, some don't. Some are successful at fitting in, after some amount of hard work and learning how to act. Some want to fit in and can't. Some don't want a lot of socialization. I would like to have close friends but I can't compromise with people. I can't "do things" that I find unpleasant, trite or illogical to keep friends. Therefore, I socialize with strangers and my immediate family.
2)I didn't know anything of substance about autism or Asperger's growing up. I was an adult before AS was put in the DSM-IV. My mom did try to get me to fit in and do what the other girls were doing. I had "default friends", my mom's friends daughters that was made to play with and socialize with. I misunderstood a lot and didn't get why these girls didn't like me or wouldn't play with me at school. Once I realized what had happened, I resented my mom's actions. Deeply.
Don't know if the alternative would have been better because I just don't know. I enjoyed playing with others but the betrayal, forced socialization and the comparison (with other girls) was very hurtful.
3)Sometimes I'm lonely, sometimes I'm grateful that I don't depend on a group or a culture to inform me, to banish me, to punish me when I'm bad.
4) There is no evidence that "people on the spectrum" are "wired to be not social". I've never heard of this and don't know where you get this. Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder that affects speech acquisition and reciprocity, understanding non-verbal cues. It's nearly always accompanied by sensory integration disorder which changes how autistic peple deal with sensory input.
As for the need to push autistics into being more social. That's how humans react to what they think is wrong, they want to fix autistics and make them neurotypical. Historically speaking, loners are always met with suspicion. And misinterpreted empathetic ideals about loneliness makes people believe that autistics should not be alone or antisocial.
5)Your son is old enough to know whether or not he is happy with his social skills, ability to make friends and ability to communicate. I think you should ask him what he really wants. Does he want a buddy? Does he want a group of peers? Does he want time alone to destress from school? (very important) |
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Eller
Deinonychus
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Your questions are not offensive at all, and I'll try to answer them...
1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)?
I'm one of the lucky aspies without any social problems. That sort of thing exists. *g* I have some very close friends and a lot of acquaintances through my hobbies who probably count me as a "friend" though I'm careful with that label. I'll only call someone a freind if I can talk to him/her about anything and I don't have to check my own facial expression all the time.
Generally, I'm interested in making friends, it's just that I need a lot of recovery time after socialising too much. (Overload problem)
When your son plays with other kids, make sure he has the opportunity to take a break now and then, it's very difficult to keep track of other peoples moods and facial expressions all the time - think of it as solving very difficult maths problems. Very hard to keep up for hours.
2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him)
There was basically no need for that, I had friends. My parents didn't force me to meet people I disliked.
3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life?
Can't answer that one, obviously.
4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way?
Because they have to find jobs in NT world and for that it's a disadvantage not to be social... Though you are right, not being social in itself is not the problem. It's the others who MAKE it a problem.
5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends?
No, it's right to worry. If your son has no friends it's very likely that other kids are going to bully him. And maybe he won't even tell you. I'd advise you to keep in touch with his teachers so you're notified when that sort of problem arises.
If your son has any special interests, maybe it would be a good idea for him to meet other people with the same hobbies. That will make social interaction easier.
Last edited by Eller on Thu May 17, 2007 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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beentheredonethat
Grouchy Old Man
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: nonsense |
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As KimJ points out, people on the spectrum are not at high risk for becoming criminals. There isn't one shred of relaible statistical evidence that points that way. The media would like it to be so, but it's not! There is a lot of good wisdom in what KimJ says
btdt |
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Graelwyn
Myrrdyn
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Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 8424
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)? |
I have had a few good friends, but apart from during childhood, no real life good friends, only those I have known on the net.
I have little interest in trying to get to know real life people on a deep level, yet plenty of interest in them getting to know me on a deep level..ie, sharing too much about myself and my interests lol.
| Quote: | | 3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life? |
It varies. Most times, as long as I have someone on the net to talk to, or a person in real life to speak to a few times a week, I am happy enough. I do not like much social interraction..it drains and tires me as I think it does many on the spectrum. Some are social animals...some are not. I fit the latter criteria. I need some interraction, but only some in my real life. The net.. I can spend a whole night chatting on and off in a box with someone...because they are there and I am here, still in my own space.
| Quote: | | 4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way? |
Because society has told us that we MUST be social..this herding instinct. Human nature is supposedly to be a pack animal, so naturally, everyone has to be this way.
| Quote: | | 5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends? |
If he seems truly content to be in his own company, I would suggest letting him be.
If he decides he wants friends, then of course, a little guidance never went amiss...there are books out there written with kids on the spectrum in mind, including some written by kids on the spectrum. These might help. |
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Eller
Deinonychus
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 302
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the "criminal" thing is obviously rubbish - if someone isn't interested in other people, he won't be interested in killing them, either.
Loneliness is another issue altogether. But it's naive to assume YOU could find friends for YOUR SON. It won't work, simply because different people have different tastes. By forcing him to play with "normal" kids, you won't do him a favour, maybe you'll even worsen the situation by causing him overload. |
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motherofalien
Butterfly
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Parents have so many fears about raising their children. I know I'm there. The most important thing I have found is to keep the communication open with your child. Be prepared to listen, don't judge, be prepared to correct in a constructive way, one that they will accept. Coach them constantly. My husband spent years telling my son to make eye contact with people and he does so with confidence know. Encourage, support and love. |
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0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5079
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Need insight from anyone on the spectrum (I'm a parent) |
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| rachel46 wrote: | | 1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)? |
I didn't till 20. Learnt at 24 by my own fruition. I still find closeness hard. Only made some friends. 2 'proper' friends. I'd be happy if I don't make anymore as long as they don't go away. Relationships more difficult. I want one.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him) |
N/A. I wish I knew. My parents had me seen by various experts. But there was no Asperger’s. I wasn't encouraged. Mostly discouraged. I used to take things apart. So people would take things away from me, my toys were often things like string, etc. Stuff that I was allowed. I was always treated differently. Sill am. I don't want to be treated the same but I don't like being restricted.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life? |
I'm completely ambiguous. I can go from not seeing anyone for weeks to seeing them more than once a week. I was around people as a kid but I didn't want to be their friend. I didn't really understand friendship. That didn't mean people didn't try to be my friend and talk to me. I never took initiative or invited people round. I moved a lot as kid. Never thought about keeping in touch. Forgot about people easily. In fact before my friends if I didn't see somebody for a couple of months I'd never see them again if I could help it. I like doing things with my friends now. It was hard to trust them for months. As a kid I was bullied because I didn't how to relate so I didn’t exactly want to be interpersonal. Also 'group interest' sort of a new concept to me. Group interests are stuff I do with my friends. It is not really too serious. Just trying stuff to spend time with them. My obsessions are mostly solitary. Personally I don't like it if someone is being too probing about them. I might discuss it. But I don't like people to get involved in my business.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way? |
Not sure maybe because people think they are stunted. Mostly because it is an NT world. Also being AS doesn't necessarily mean I'll be able to understand another AS. We are actually missing inherent instincts.
The desire to have friends? NTs don't understand friends. You can't say you understand something if you haven't actually learnt it. ‘Friends’ is something they do naturally without thinking. They don't know why they do small talk. They don't know why they do body language. I have learned quite a bit myself. What I say is yes I'll do it. Only for some people. But that doesn't mean I don't think it is overcomplicated.
| rachel46 wrote: | | 5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends? |
You worry all you like.  It has to be their idea. Don't close that avenue off. Actually few people make close friends. People who make a lot of friends spread things very thinly. NTs can be very lost. AS can be curious, you can't always get by without asking questions. Your son may be like me not really wanting or knowing friends at school but still talking to people some of the time. Or not. All I know is when I knew I wanted friends I had to figure it out. I also had Social Anxiety because of not being able to relate. So I got help with that and also my eye contact. That's how I found out I'm on the spectrum. |
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Beenthere
10 Miles South of Sanity
Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 2129
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I am an aspie...raised by two parents who although undiagnosed I'm sure were both aspies...I'm raising a son who has alot of aspie traits...
1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)?
No interest, in fact I find it for the most part extremely stressful. I do have one very good friend that I've had for years, who is alot like myself.
2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him)
I didn't know, my parents were not social themselves, so there was no pressure in this department. I don't believe they would have been successful on a long-term basis even if there was. Socializing has almost always been something that I've done because the situation warranted it or expected it of me, not because I truly enjoyed it. That is a concept most NT consolers fail to grasp.
3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life?
I like me, I'm happy with me...we all have days when we feel like something's missing, I'm no exception. But not having a "social circle" is not one of those things I miss.
4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way?
I think it's a classic textbook thing...the round peg fits in the round hole, the square peg fits in the square hole...this is what the book says is best, this is what the textbook says works...then we come along and we're the shape of an octagon and they are still trying to tell us the same rules MUST apply for us to be happy...and we end up spending a lifetime trying to "conform".
5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends?
I would quit worrying so much...friends come and go...that goes for NT's as well as Aspies...he WILL make friends and THOSE will be the friends HE really likes to be around, those are not the ones anyone "forces" you into making...those are the people you attract that truly accept "you" for being "you". I work on making memories with my son, sharing interests together...like my parents did with me...that has been what has kept me strong all these years, not a social circle to lean on.
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*Normal* is just a setting on the dryer. |
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giaam
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 05, 2007
Posts: 351
Location: Dexters Lab
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need insight from anyone on the spectrum (I'm a parent) |
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| rachel46 wrote: |
1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)?
2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him)
3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life?
4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way?
5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends?
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1-That's an individual thing I think your son will figure out for himself as he gets older. The friends I had were in many ways like me to an extent, not realy socialy motivated, but we shared some interests.
2-My mother did not push me to be social, but she did take me to social or 'family' events
3-I did not particularly crave to be around others; if they were there, as long as they did not interfere with what I was involved in, then they were OK by me.
4-My theory is that NT's are wired to be around each other, it the 'norm' so they expect that is what we want also.
5-Can't say you should not take an interest; if you could suport him in his areas of interest, and if by this he comes in to contact with others who share his interests and he tries to share with them then great. Just letting him know you're there for him in this regard and he'll do fine I'm sure.
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(Just give what I want, and no-one gets hurt 
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rachel46
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I am so grateful for all of your answers - it just confirmed in my own mind what I have sort of been thinking for awhile in my own mind about my son. There is nothing "wrong" with him, he has a few friends now, he may have more later if he wants, I will continue to raise him to be a productive, decent human being and continue to ignore a lot of what the NT world says he "should be"- it's taken over a year to get to this place but it is a very liberating feeling.
I love this board! |
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1818
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Need insight from anyone on the spectrum (I'm a parent) |
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| rachel46 wrote: |
1. Do you feel like you absolutely have no interest in getting to know someone on any interpersonal level or it's just too difficultt or do so only because it is dictated by your job or circumstance? Have you ever had a really good friend(s)? |
it is difficult for me. I have had good friends, but only a few (and only a few friends of any kind). However until the age of about 9 I had absolutely no interest.
| Quote: | | 2. If you knew that you were on the spectrum when you were younger did your parents do things to try to make you be social? were they successful? did you care about being social or did you do it only because your parents made you? (my son always tells me he only does certain social things because we "make" him) |
They didn't know. they did try to make me more social, and failed. Though they themselves are not particularly social and, while not aspies, are definitely atypical.
| Quote: |
3. If you are someone who is not part of the "social world" are you relatively happy and content or is something you feel is missing in your life? |
Something is definitely missing in my life
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4. If people on the spectrum are more comfortable and are even wired to NOT being social why do we push so hard to make them that way? |
Two different issues here - the need of being social and the ability to satisfy the need. I lack the latter. As a child, I didn't have either. Social skills are always useful - someone could change and want companionship (happened to me) and even if not, networking is always useful in any career (something along the lines of being CEO of an engineering firm vs. being Dilbert).
| Quote: |
5. Should I as the parent of a son on the spectrum quit worrying so much about his ability to make friends? |
I think we socialise better in highly structured situations like working on a common task (NOT parties). something that requires interaction but that places no great stress on social skills and that doesn't involve aggressive socialising. obviously common interests help.
This is not to say you should try to make your son like everyone else. You should help him to acquire social skills. Think of it this way: someone who learns to use acomputer is still the same person, but has acquired a skill that is likely to be useful, either jobwise or for fun or both. Social skills are something analogous. It's not about pretending you're someone you're not, it's about being able to, if you want to, make friends, acquaintances, etc. Friends do come and go - that's exactly why being able to make new friends is so important.
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I neither take revenge, nor beg for favours. (Rabindranath Tagore)
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka) |
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0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5079
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rachel46 wrote: | I am so grateful for all of your answers - it just confirmed in my own mind what I have sort of been thinking for awhile in my own mind about my son. There is nothing "wrong" with him, he has a few friends now, he may have more later if he wants, I will continue to raise him to be a productive, decent human being and continue to ignore a lot of what the NT world says he "should be"- it's taken over a year to get to this place but it is a very liberating feeling.
I love this board! |
Well that's good, he's lucky. It is quite good knowing you can put your feet up isn't it
Two friends? That's loads. How many people do you actually trust? |
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