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methinks
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 07, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 348
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| cosmiccat wrote: | | Subjectively speaking, I am conscious of the fact that this thread hasn't been touched in several days. Is it something I said? |
no,I find these conversations fascinating and helpful..it's just that they've often dissipated before I can catch up with all of them and real-ize exactly what it is I have to say or contribute to the conversation.I trying to get better at quick concision.
Anyhow,I am very interested in consciousness and contemporary shamanism,in all forms,which I think is what Castaneda spoke/wrote of in that first "Don Juan" book.
You might find Terence McKenna and Robert Anton Wilson worth your while too.Both of them covered all aspects of consciousness.I'm only marginally interested in drugs themselves and I've found their speakings/writings to be extremely stimulating and even comforting. |
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cosmiccat
Supporting Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: In my body on my 65th trip around the sun
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Me thinks I will check those guys out, Methinks. I'm not interested in drugs at all in this phase of my life and was only marginally interested in them back in the 70's. Weed was enough for me. I must confess, though, it does enhance consciousness, and I beleive it enabled me to understand, accept, and appreciate myself in a way I would not have without it. At the same time, because of its effect on my mind, I really spaced out on that stuff more than most, I knew that any of the other drugs popular at that time, especially acid and speed, were definately not for me and would most certainly push me over the edge into insanity.
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I accept chaos. I am not sure whether it accepts me. Some people are terrified of the bomb. But then some people are terrified to be seen carrying a modern screen magazine. Experience teaches us that silence terrifies people the most. Bob Dylan |
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methinks
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 07, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 348
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Me too,I used and liked cannabis for a short time when I was younger,and I tried a few other things that I found varyingly interesting.I came to realize that my mind was already somewhat "different",even without drugs,and I wasn't going to benefit from that lifestyle.
But I agree that I learned things from certain drugs that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.They are not all "bad",by any means,but drugs are often trivialized and misused in this culture(imho). |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1572
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Toward a theory of consciousness (no less than that). Dr |
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| paolo wrote: | Our mobile behavior is governed by a galaxy of privileged cells, that we call neurons, they are the drivers of this packed bus which is our body. Neurons need emotions (fear, hunger, disgust, attraction affective and sexual) to process the inputs from the environment and find food, mates, water, protection from cold and heat. Without emotions the body would not move, or would not move fast as necessary.
Plants also move and process input from the environment. They push roots in the direction of water , leaves in direction of sunlight, even some of them can catch preys (carnivore plants) and nearly all have flowers to attract pollinators. Their reproduction is mediated by mobile animals, insects or birds or winds.
Animals, on the contrary must move to reproduce, feed, flee, fight. Movements are mediated by emotions. And emotions constitute the self, the ego, what we feel as our personality, which is a mix of stored memories of various kinds, momentary inputs from inside (hunger, thirst etc) or from outside: the sight of menacing enemies, attractive mates etc., and drives, preordained and hard wired modalities to execute vital tasks. Self is the mix of perceived sufferings, satisfactions, longings, pleasure which guide actions. |
I believe emotions are the go-betweens from sensation to thought, carrying messages from one to the other & back again. Sometimes we are aware of this, but it happens whether or not we have time or inclination to notice. Emotions are how animals (incl. humans) get things done (or keep things from being done to them). Emotions are the translators that can communicate with both our nonverbal sensations & perceptions, as well as with our verbal intellect. They are the physiological lingua franca, the intermediaries, the connectors linking our outsides (physical) with our insides (mental). The duality of mental vs. physical seems false to me, though humans often assume it's a real dichotomy-brain/mind is a physical thing that co-creates itself in concert with the environment. It takes on a life of it's own, until we die & then all is lost (just my opinion, there).
| paolo wrote: | | Emergent qualities: Many different trees = a wood and an ecosystem. Neurons "talking to each other" = consciousness. Different musical instruments = an orchestra and a symphony being played. Some parts added make a unity which is not the sume of the parts, but something new. |
Like chemistry, the elements sodium & chloride each taken alone, are quite unlike (in their properties & effects) the NaCl we use as table salt. That's an example of a simple, mundane, everyday thing made up of 2 components which by themselves we find inhospitable. The combined whole being greater than its parts, or making an entirely new/different (from its origins) creation.
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*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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psych
OTTer
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 1909
Location: w london
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| paolo wrote: |
As for connectedness and and "ecoconsciousness" there is a great deal of literature besides Bateson's "Mind and Nature" and Frjtiof Capra's "The hidden connections" and "The Web of Life".
Bateson is my favourite author. |
Are you aware of the (relatively) recent russian research into the human genome?
Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf have documented their research in a book 'Vernetzte Intelligenz', which unfortunately is only available in Russian.
To summarise, DNA (the 90%+ that doesnt build proteins, and has been largely ignored by mainstream science) acts as a biological internet, which is programmable by words and frequencies. This would seem to be the basis for concepts of 'ecoconciousness'.
http://www.lifetechnology.org/blog/2006/10/dna-biological-internet.html
I think perhaps close study of the entire genome may reveal tiered levels of inter-connectivity, whereby we share a stronger connection with our own species, less so for other mammals, and so on, leading eventually to the inhabitants of other dimensional/frequency ranges (which we are mostly unable to see).
Consider how animals are supposedly able to 'sense' and avoid coming ecological disasters - like a tsunami or volcano. This suggests that their inter-connectivity is much stronger than ours & (this has only just occurred to me) and ties together neatly the discovery that DNA can be programmed by words with the ancient lore from Africa which states that humankind lost their ability to communicate telepathically via the introduction of verbal speech.
I cannot really end this post without mentioning David Icke, he has written much about the nature of conciousness and the holographic nature of reality in laymens terms, whilst drawing together and joining up research from many different areas of both western science and eastern mysticism/aboriginal folklore. The russian discoveries occurred after his last published work, but supports and/or lends material weight towards much of what he has already written (and been branded a 'nutcase' for  ) |
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cosmiccat
Supporting Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: In my body on my 65th trip around the sun
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="psych"]
| Quote: | | http://www.lifetechnology.org/blog/2006/10/dna-biological-internet.html |
Can't wait to check it out.
| Quote: | | I cannot really end this post without mentioning David Icke, he has written much about the nature of conciousness and the holographic nature of reality in laymens terms, whilst drawing together and joining up research from many different areas of both western science and eastern mysticism/aboriginal folklore. The russian discoveries occurred after his last published work, but supports and/or lends material weight towards much of what he has already written (and been branded a 'nutcase' for ) |
Ah, where would we be without the "nutcases" of the world. I will have a lot of reading to do this summer. Thank you Psych et all.
_________________
I accept chaos. I am not sure whether it accepts me. Some people are terrified of the bomb. But then some people are terrified to be seen carrying a modern screen magazine. Experience teaches us that silence terrifies people the most. Bob Dylan |
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cosmiccat
Supporting Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: In my body on my 65th trip around the sun
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Aha, Paolo - I see that Fritjof Capra is both a buddhist and a catholic. This makes me even more eager to read his work. Although I know the combination must surely exist in many, I was only aware of Thomas Merton and his "Zen and the Birds of Appetite":
"Zen enriches no one. There is no body to be found. The birds may come and circle for a while in the place where it is thought to be. But they soon go elsewhere. When they are gone, the nothing, the no-body that was there, suddenly appears. That is Zen. It was there all the time, but the scavengers missed it, because it was not there kind of prey."
These words inspire me. It is similar in my mind to the idea that we cannot steal the fire. The fire must be given to us. We can't sneak up on it and carry it away because it then becomes something other than fire. When we have a moment of enlightenment or revelation, it comes to us, we do not go in search of it. We become more fully conscious when effort is not present.
_________________
I accept chaos. I am not sure whether it accepts me. Some people are terrified of the bomb. But then some people are terrified to be seen carrying a modern screen magazine. Experience teaches us that silence terrifies people the most. Bob Dylan |
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Belfast
Vast Ambivalence
Joined: Jul 18, 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 1572
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmiccat wrote: | | Aha, Paolo - I see that Fritjof Capra is both a buddhist and a catholic. This makes me even more eager to read his work. |
Am irreligious, but appreciate deep thought & feeling.
Great film I'd suggest: "Mindwalk" (based on his book "The Turning Point")-it's 3 characters walking & talking about philosophical, ecological, spiritual perspectives. Anyone familiar with it ?
http://www.fritjofcapra.net/mindwalk.html
_________________
*"You cannot administer a wicked law impartially-it destroys everyone it touches, its violators as well as its upholders."* |
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cosmiccat
Supporting Member
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 1700
Location: In my body on my 65th trip around the sun
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Belfast"]
| Quote: | Great film I'd suggest: "Mindwalk" (based on his book "The Turning Point")-it's 3 characters walking & talking about philosophical, ecological, spiritual perspectives. Anyone familiar with it ?
http://www.fritjofcapra.net/mindwalk.html |
Well, anything with Liv Ullman has got to be good. And score by Phillip Glass? I'll rent it for sure.
Thanks, Belfast. I am struggling to keep the faith I was raised in, but I never allowed it to box me in. It's my base, and I build upon it. I do not consider myself religious, oddly. I think Thomas Merton had to walk on thin ice in regards to his Buddhist ideas and their compatability with Catholicism. He seems to me to be almost apologetic in a sense. If he could write or speak with out the axe falling from the Vatican, perhaps he would have not minced his words.
The Gateless Gate (Mumon, excerpt)
"The Great Way has no gate,
A thousand roads enter it.
When one passes through this gateless gate,
He freely walks between heaven and earth."
I don't pretend to be an expert on Thomas Merton, or on anything, for that matter. I offer only my insights and opinions here. I believe that Merton passed through the gateless gate, but could not divulge the many roads he traveled without losing the one he held most dear.
_________________
I accept chaos. I am not sure whether it accepts me. Some people are terrified of the bomb. But then some people are terrified to be seen carrying a modern screen magazine. Experience teaches us that silence terrifies people the most. Bob Dylan |
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