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Scrapheap
Banned
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Posts: 1678
Location: Animal Farm
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 Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| MMM wrote: | What I really think is cool about the Bible is that it is living. Just read one of the books and then wait 10 years and read it again. It will mean something completely different then. I love how it communicates to my needs anytime. It is super natural but much more fun in a group I feel safe with.
God is Super Natural! He is sooo cool. |
This simply proves that your mind creates god. Not the other way around. It also proves that religion IS the opiate of the masses. 
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emp
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2006
Posts: 1001
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Endersdragon wrote: | | You seem like the type that burns bibles in your spare time when should I start preparing for your type to make relegion illegal??? |
Make religion illegal?? But atheists want government and religion to be SEPARATE. If religion were made illegal, then there would be a connection between the 2. That is contrary to what most atheists want. We do not want religion made illegal, rather we want people to wake up and stop being so gullible and naive.
Basically you are thinking like a religious person. As a religious person, you think in terms of burning books and outlawing people who disagree, therefore you think that atheists would do the same thing. No. Atheists are happy to "live and let live", although this does not mean they will be mute.
For example, I think the bible is disgustingly immoral and perverted, and holding it sacred is insane. However, I do NOT want to burn all copies of the bible. On the contrary, it should be retained in libraries as an example of the lunacy and immorality of primitive people. It should be kept for historical reference. People can learn from it as an example of how immoral people were in the past. Religion and the bible should be studied by psychologists. Religion should be recognized by psychology as the pathology that it is. And to do this, we need to keep the bible, not burn it.
No sensible atheist wants to outlaw religion or burn books because then we would have become as bad as the christians. Religion advocates persecution. Atheists advocate education. |
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MMM
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: WOW |
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Wow Scrapheap!
In one post I have SIMPLY PROOVED that God is created in my mind and that it is the opiate of the masses! When will I be rich and famous? I didn't know I had it in me! Just kidding. I just think your quote to my experience was a little silly. I have some really cool experiences that prove God is real. For some reason I think emp really believes what he says. But you are bashing a Christian who would never bash your beliefs & it confuses me as to what you really believe in. But, I'm not great at understanding others emotions or feelings anyway!
Peace & Love |
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Scrapheap
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Posts: 1678
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: WOW |
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| MMM wrote: | Wow Scrapheap!
In one post I have SIMPLY PROOVED that God is created in my mind and that it is the opiate of the masses! When will I be rich and famous? I didn't know I had it in me! Just kidding. I just think your quote to my experience was a little silly. |
Do you have a more logical explination how the same words change meaning??
| Quote: | | I have some really cool experiences that prove God is real. |
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You have no empirical evidence that Jehova/Yavwey god of Abraham is real. | Quote: | | For some reason I think emp really believes what he says. |
He does and he has facts to back up what he says.
| Quote: | But you are bashing a Christian who would never bash your beliefs & it confuses me as to what you really believe in. But, I'm not great at understanding others emotions or feelings anyway!
Peace & Love |
I don't have 'beliefs'. I'm O.K. with the answer "I don't know". I don't try to use a make believe god to explain something I don't understand.
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MMM
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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LOGIC? Faith has nothing to do with logic.
Explain cancer, it exist, but no one can logically prove anything about it fully - yet. I am convinced that very few of us really know what logic really is....and if we do, it is only in very limited proportions confused by our very large baggage.
I am not bashing you or try to prove or disprove any belief you have.
Emp's facts are still his beliefs - not proofs. I don't know him, but I don't think he trys to prove anything.
I don't know everything about God - nor have I said I do. But I have experienced Him. I know He has revealed Himself to me. That is my experience.
Tell me exactly what you mean by empirical evidence if you are wanting proof. If you don't want proof or just don't care - don't let what I write bother you. |
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emp
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2006
Posts: 1001
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| MMM wrote: | | LOGIC? Faith has nothing to do with logic. |
Correct. Faith is illogical and irrational, and a tad insane. Faith is a psychological disorder.
| MMM wrote: | | Explain cancer, |
Explain why God allows children with cancer to die horrible slow deaths. Go into your local childrens hospital and personally meet some of the children who are slowly dying from cancer. Then try to tell me that God is benevolent.
If you think that these children, these wonderful children who never harmed anyone, innocent children who just want to play with their friends without being sick, if you think these children should continue to die from cancer, then you have a very black heart indeed. God does not help these children because he does not exist. |
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MMM
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| My third child died with luekemia. My best friend died at age 30 with a different kind of luekemia. I have been in the hospital and know too well what that is like emp. Thank you! |
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don
Emu Egg
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: simplicty |
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| I agree that all the symbolism, etc. is not something one with AS should spend much time with. If the so called experts are somewhat right, and we tend to take things literally. One place in the bible, Jesus says, "thank you God that you've hidden these things from the wise of this world, and revieled it to the simple". Another place, This guy Paul said, "notice that there aren't many wise,(this world) amoung us" Jesus said the WHOLE of the law and the prophets was summed up in things like love one another, and do unto others as....., . I find comfort in knowing I don't have to understand all the symbolism etc. |
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emp
Phoenix
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Posts: 1001
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MMM wrote: | | My third child died with luekemia. My best friend died at age 30 with a different kind of luekemia. I have been in the hospital and know too well what that is like emp. Thank you! |
Therefore you have first-hand experience of why god is unworthy of worship. God allows children with cancer to die horrible slow deaths. How can anyone worship such an awful god? Either god is malevolent, or he does not exist. |
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Scrapheap
Banned
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MMM wrote: | | LOGIC? Faith has nothing to do with logic. |
At last! a christian who got it right!! Faith is not Fact and Religion is not Reason! Theay are different subjects.
| Quote: | | Explain cancer, it exist, but no one can logically prove anything about it fully - yet. I am convinced that very few of us really know what logic really is....and if we do, it is only in very limited proportions confused by our very large baggage. |
I'm a student of Philosophy, Psycology and History. Logic is a branch of Epistemology.
| Quote: | | I am not bashing you or try to prove or disprove any belief you have. |
I try not to have "beliefs". Accepting something without facts is dangerous!!
| Quote: | | Emp's facts are still his beliefs - not proofs. I don't know him, but I don't think he trys to prove anything. |
Facts aren't beliefs. Dimissing 'evidence' as merely a belief system, leads to relative truth. Everything becomes equaly false or true. Is this what you believe??
| Quote: | | I don't know everything about God - nor have I said I do. But I have experienced Him. I know He has revealed Himself to me. That is my experience. |
So you're admiting that god can only be known subjectively and not proven to exist objectively.
| Quote: | | Tell me exactly what you mean by empirical evidence if you are wanting proof. If you don't want proof or just don't care - don't let what I write bother you. |
If you could produce empirical evidence that Jehova exists, you'd be the first christian to do so. Christians have tried unsuccesfully for 2000 years to prove god. No one has done it. I doubt anyone ever will.
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Scrapheap
Banned
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| emp wrote: | | MMM wrote: | | My third child died with luekemia. My best friend died at age 30 with a different kind of luekemia. I have been in the hospital and know too well what that is like emp. Thank you! |
Therefore you have first-hand experience of why god is unworthy of worship. God allows children with cancer to die horrible slow deaths. How can anyone worship such an awful god? Either god is malevolent, or he does not exist. |
This goes back to the problem of Evil. I'll give the christians a second chance to answer this one.
These 3 things cannot co-exist. Two of them cancel out the third.
1) God is omnipotent
2) God is omnibenevolent
3) Evil exists
One of these 3 isn't true. Which one is it??
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| emp wrote: | | Endersdragon wrote: | | You seem like the type that burns bibles in your spare time when should I start preparing for your type to make relegion illegal??? |
Make religion illegal?? But atheists want government and religion to be SEPARATE. If religion were made illegal, then there would be a connection between the 2. That is contrary to what most atheists want. We do not want religion made illegal, rather we want people to wake up and stop being so gullible and naive.
Basically you are thinking like a religious person. As a religious person, you think in terms of burning books and outlawing people who disagree, therefore you think that atheists would do the same thing. No. Atheists are happy to "live and let live", although this does not mean they will be mute.
For example, I think the bible is disgustingly immoral and perverted, and holding it sacred is insane. However, I do NOT want to burn all copies of the bible. On the contrary, it should be retained in libraries as an example of the lunacy and immorality of primitive people. It should be kept for historical reference. People can learn from it as an example of how immoral people were in the past. Religion and the bible should be studied by psychologists. Religion should be recognized by psychology as the pathology that it is. And to do this, we need to keep the bible, not burn it.
No sensible atheist wants to outlaw religion or burn books because then we would have become as bad as the christians. Religion advocates persecution. Atheists advocate education. |
If this is true why do they write songs like imagine and tell us relegion is the cause of all the worlds problems (while ignoring places like Soviet Russia and North Korea.) And you guys seem to be talking about unreasonable Christians so why cant I talk about unreasonable atheists.
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Xuincherguixe
High Priest of the Followers of Squiggy
Joined: May 10, 2006
Posts: 1419
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Endersdragon wrote: | | emp wrote: |
No sensible atheist wants to outlaw religion or burn books because then we would have become as bad as the christians. Religion advocates persecution. Atheists advocate education. |
If this is true why do they write songs like imagine and tell us relegion is the cause of all the worlds problems (while ignoring places like Soviet Russia and North Korea.) And you guys seem to be talking about unreasonable Christians so why cant I talk about unreasonable atheists. |
A reasonable Athiest wouldn't actually believe that. This is not to say they wouldn't right such a song though (it's trendy right now to both bash Christians and be Christian. And the two aren't mutually exclusive  ) The so obvious it's probably too simple an answer to be true is that they want money/power and the usaul things. It might be misunderstood parody, or Misunderstood criticism.
Maybe the musician just enjoys having people get ready into "Crusade Mode".
As far as North Korea and Soviet Russia (hooray for Communists, everyones favorite scape goat!) go, one could argue that the beliefs of the Communists originated from religious beliefs, and thus is indirectly responsible. (I'm not saying that, I'm just showing that I can blame anything on anything else) |
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peebo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 718
Location: aberdeen
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Endersdragon wrote: |
If this is true why do they write songs like imagine and tell us relegion is the cause of all the worlds problems (while ignoring places like Soviet Russia and North Korea.) And you guys seem to be talking about unreasonable Christians so why cant I talk about unreasonable atheists. |
i don't really think you can compare a song like imagine with burning books and persecution. people are entitled to their beliefs, and to express them, i don't think john lennon was advocating burning anyone on a stake for their beliefs, was he? for comparisons to work and be reasonable, you have to compare like with like. |
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Endersdragon
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Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | | Endersdragon wrote: |
If this is true why do they write songs like imagine and tell us relegion is the cause of all the worlds problems (while ignoring places like Soviet Russia and North Korea.) And you guys seem to be talking about unreasonable Christians so why cant I talk about unreasonable atheists. |
i don't really think you can compare a song like imagine with burning books and persecution. people are entitled to their beliefs, and to express them, i don't think john lennon was advocating burning anyone on a stake for their beliefs, was he? for comparisons to work and be reasonable, you have to compare like with like. |
Ummm where did I say anything about burning people at the stake??? When I went into athetistic regimes I was talking about comparing them with relegious regimes (both of which can be horrible) and that is comparing like with like.
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no one gives a sh** ... as long as we smile"
Im tired of smiling.
Vote for me in 2020 |
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