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AspBurger
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: What would you do? |
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This is a real question, with no trick answers coming later. I would like to know how you would react to the following:
You are an agnostic. You receive incontrovertible proof that there is a Hell and that everyone that you have ever cared about is going to be cast into it. You find that you, however, have an option. You can go to Hell, not with your loved ones, but in utter isolation, or you can go to Heaven if you worship and love the God who is sending your friends and family to Hell. While you are alive, what do you do? How strong is your conviction? |
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Xenon
Mutant Space Bug
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 1708
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do? |
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| AspBurger wrote: | | You are an agnostic. You receive incontrovertible proof that there is a Hell and that everyone that you have ever cared about is going to be cast into it. You find that you, however, have an option. You can go to Hell, not with your loved ones, but in utter isolation, or you can go to Heaven if you worship and love the God who is sending your friends and family to Hell. While you are alive, what do you do? How strong is your conviction? |
The God is sending all my friends and loved ones to Hell? No way I am going to worship such an entity. Especially not if I am effectively being blackmailed into worship and love. I choose Hell.
(Utter isolation doesn't bother me.)
_________________
"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." -- Emo Philips |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5200
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| it's not really heaven without your friends and loved ones, now is it? |
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Phssthpok
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 17, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| It would be awfully arrogant of me to second guess a god. |
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calandale
Stellar's Jay
Joined: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 15131
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Utter isolation? That sounds tough to beat.
I'd take heaven, and see if I could finish
the arrogant bastard off. No question. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6138
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I would probably have to choose heaven in such a situation. I will not pretend to know the purposes of a deity, nor can I say that it would be wise to defy one either. Frankly, I would more likely want to get my loved ones in on that same deal. Really though, this sounds a bit like a distorted Christian doctrine to me. |
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gwenevyn
asdf forever
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Since the definitions of heaven tend, more or less, to involve one being in a perfect state of perfect happiness, this really isn't a dilemma. My understanding (oversimplified) is this: God is love and so those who love will love God and therefore wish to be with Him in heaven. Those who go to hell are those who have chosen it through their own consent of the will. There would be no reason to go to that prison with your hypothetical damned loved-ones in a show of solidarity, because they weren't thrown in the abyss. They decided to go. |
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AspBurger
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| I wanted to ask mostly if, should you choose heaven, you would be able to worship and adore, love, sing praises to that God, etc., while you were still alive? |
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calandale
Stellar's Jay
Joined: Mar 10, 2007
Posts: 15131
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Since it ain't my plan to worship such a cruel
thing, I'd be going to heaven for one reason,
and one reason alone. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 6138
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| AspBurger wrote: | | I wanted to ask mostly if, should you choose heaven, you would be able to worship and adore, love, sing praises to that God, etc., while you were still alive? I have known Christians whose only expressed reason for their conversion was to escape hell. The Bible does say that 'the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom'................. |
Yes it does on a few occasions, the issue is that the correct definition of fear in this case is not the emotion but rather reverence for a greater being. This is simply a definition that isn't used very often and seems odd to us for that reason, but it is even found in Websters online "3 : to have a reverential awe of" http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fear
Not only that but fear as we commonly use it cannot be the true reason for continued faith "1Jn 4:18 There is no fear where love exists. Rather, perfect love banishes fear, for fear involves punishment, and the person who lives in fear has not been perfected in love." Love and fear of punishment are thus seen as incompatible I would think, although one could argue that this is mere inconsistency or something.
Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anubis
My name is "Trouble".
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Age: 18
Posts: 13706
Location: Too school for cool
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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I'll take the third option.
DESTROY THIS "GOD"
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You can get alot out of new life. You get very little from criminal scum. |
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anarkhos
Toucan
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 279
Location: Vancouver / Portland area
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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There would be no greater horror than perfection. You could never improve, never change, never act. There would be no purpose, no point, and no aim.
I don't understand the appeal of Heaven. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5200
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| anarkhos wrote: | There would be no greater horror than perfection. You could never improve, never change, never act. There would be no purpose, no point, and no aim.
I don't understand the appeal of Heaven. |
well obvoiusly by the texts, heaven is the giving up of free will to serve god's will (whichever god you choose).
so if you give up free will, you give up the free will to be sad or miserable..and for some people, giving up free will is heaven....just look at venezuela...all those people cheering at the loss of freedoms and at oppression coming their way. they're in pure bliss over their losses. |
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anarkhos
Toucan
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 279
Location: Vancouver / Portland area
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | well obvoiusly by the texts, heaven is the giving up of free will to serve god's will (whichever god you choose). |
Sounds horrible.
As for Venezuela, most of them are dependent on government largesse. Last I read, 2/3rds were directly dependent. Their reaction shouldn't be surprising. They're so dependent on the system that any measure to maintain it will be cheered. No different than in the USA, actually. In our fascist system like their socialist one, only from a complete collapse will it be possible to take a new course. When the government cheques bounce and the dollar plummets, maybe then the faith will be shaken. |
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kt-64
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Posts: 955
Location: Who cares?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| That god sounds like adolf! |
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