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snake321
phoenix
Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 3250
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 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: logical arguments for religion |
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| To begin with, I am not trying to troll, not trying to offend anyone. This question is for mainly Christians, muslims, however pagans and hindus and people of any dogma-based religion are welcome to give it a shot. I am interested if anyone can provide a logical basis for a mythological religion. I know a lot of atheist are going to be prompted to start a flame war on this thread, please don't. I am an atheist-agnostic myself, but I am interested in hearing others' points of view, to see if anyone can actually make an intelligent argument for their religion...... Buddhism or lavey satanism don't count as religions for this thread because they are more philosophy than religion. |
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Climber
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Sep 03, 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Snake,
It's been five days with no replies.
Does that answer your question? |
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egodeus59
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well I'm bored so I'll try.
The universe is so mindbogglingly perfect for the existence of life that its improbable that it had came into existence be sheer chance, hence its probable that something intelligent created it.
(^I don't believe that, its just the intelligent design logic)
The problem is proof denies faith so if you somehow prove the existence of god you cause him to not exist because without faith in him/it he is nothing.  |
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Malachi_Rothschild
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Buddhism or lavey satanism don't count as religions for this thread because they are more philosophy than religion. |
The Eastern forms of Buddhism can have quite a bit of myth and dogma. The watered-down Western Buddhism is merely stripped of much of the cultural baggage. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: logical arguments for religion |
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| snake321 wrote: | | I am interested if anyone can provide a logical basis for a mythological religion. I know a lot of atheist are going to be prompted to start a flame war on this thread, please don't. I am an atheist-agnostic myself, but I am interested in hearing others' points of view, to see if anyone can actually make an intelligent argument for their religion. |
Religion, ( which means "re-connecting/re-ligamenting"by the way,) involving a God who created the world, ( as opposed to spirits still active here , still present HERE, IN the earth, animals,rivers etc ) might have been an aspie invention some time long ago, in the Fertile Crescent, about 12/10,000 BC, when first came under the " out of body"/heady influence of opiate-similar food-opioids in gluten ( wheat was new plant at end of last ice-age) and casein ( first dairy farming).
Feeling alienated, detached, spaced out, disconnected from other people, it ( god) was a mechanism which enabled them to relax about being driven to understand everything, allowing them to relax in their attention to every little detail;
not feel so alone up there in their heads contemplating the world in its infinite complexity;
relax about responsibility for organising everything;
make some much needed empty space in their crowded, noisy, jabbering/theorising heads ( more space cos when decide to believe in God the known universe has to stretch to make room!!);
have someone intelligent enough to talk to, and also
persuade them that the world was not a figment of their imagination, that it was "really" real, more real than if it had no creator to speak of. (Someone ELSE made this!!) More real for being juxtaposed with something unreal. So can play in it, rather than remaining a spectator, hyper-critical , categorising, classifying, observing, selecting, etc.
A sort of imaginary friend. And believing in God really has an effect. Belief in the unreal happens all around us , constantly, and has what has now been recognised as very powerful effects.
 The unreal exists. ( or; the non-existent is real !!)
Maybe even found that HAD to believe in a God who made the world, in order to identify with the NT suspension of disbelief about life, NT unquestioning investment in life, (even after eating wheat!!), and commit to this paper-thin simulcrum of a world.
  God as a precious and ingenious prosthetic device for AS people on gluten and casein opioids!! Whereas AS people in the East ( China, Japan) were not exposed to casein, and to very little gluten , until about a century ago.
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:04 am; edited 28 times in total |
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richardbenson
loves mexican food
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10597
Location: my apartment in sunnyside
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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this is my theory on why people need religion.
our brains got bigger and we cant accept the fact of there not being god somewhere out there that made everything. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | ...our brains got bigger and we cant accept the fact of there not being god somewhere out there that made everything. |
The human brain has not increased in size for the last 65,000 years. But belief in Gods , composite, unreal beings , did not arise until about 12,000 BC.
Who can't accept the idea of there being no god ? Many people can!
Why would it be difficult for some humans and not others? My explanation covers that, by suggesting that it is principally aspies ( with their particular brain wiring )who find the universe difficult without meaning. For whom a reason is always necessary. Not NTs.
And that aspies in China and Japan did not "invent" a God, because they did not eat (much) wheat or any dairy until recently and so did not experience the extra-alienating effects on their aspie ness which cry out for answers. Not just for explanations but meanings.
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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richardbenson
loves mexican food
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10597
Location: my apartment in sunnyside
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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here is my new theory. once we started gathering more into groups instead of individuals we needed god&religion.
actually religion in the past has been a great tool for keeping people inline and provided humas with morality conduct |
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-Vorzac-
Phoenix
Joined: May 27, 2007
Posts: 605
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| religion is a psychological safety blanket that people use to avoid the harsh reality of life. it's an ancient and easy way to explain things that we don't understand and don't want to accept. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | here is my new theory. once we started gathering more into groups instead of individuals we needed god&religion. |
Humans have never lived or survived as individuals, at least not until recently, except in rare cases. Humans are social animals, and probably regulated their groups like chimpanzees until very recently in evolutionary terms. Dominant-male as body-guard and/or planner and "best-gene-pool" carrier with rights to most females. etc etc. Might was right in most societies until ancient Greece, which proposed another method called democracy. And which had nothing to do with religion. ( I think!)
Last edited by ouinon on Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| -Vorzac- wrote: | | religion is a psychological safety blanket that people use to avoid the harsh reality of life. it's an ancient and easy way to explain things that we don't understand and don't want to accept. |
Why put it down so dismissively? It's not even easy.
I'm agnostic and interested in God as a phenomenon, as something unreal which exists and has meaning.
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:06 am; edited 3 times in total |
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richardbenson
loves mexican food
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10597
Location: my apartment in sunnyside
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | | richardbenson wrote: | | here is my new theory. once we started gathering more into groups instead of individuals we needed god&religion. |
Humans have never lived or survived as individuals, at least not until recently, except in rare cases. |
so maybe its a mixture of both evolution, and more people on the planet. i think you'd really be suprised at how dumb humans really are. once some guy sais he know who god is, alot of people will believe him. i dont think it was any different back then |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | i think you'd really be suprised at how dumb humans really are. once some guy sais he know who god is, alot of people will believe him. i dont think it was any different back then |
So actually you're just flaming !! To you Religion is just the result of one or more persons madness or power-hunger PLUS lots of stupid people!
Last edited by ouinon on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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richardbenson
loves mexican food
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Posts: 10597
Location: my apartment in sunnyside
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| richardbenson wrote: | | i think you'd really be suprised at how dumb humans really are. once some guy sais he know who god is, alot of people will believe him. i dont think it was any different back then |
| ouinon wrote: | | So actually you're just flaming !! |
uh no?
| ouinon wrote: | | To you Religion is just the result of one or more persons madness or power-hunger PLUS lots of stupid people! |
pretty much
| ouinon wrote: | | That doesn't sound like an intelligent reason/argument for having religious beliefs! |
well i dont think religion is very intelligant. it discriminates against other people, and uses fear to convert people |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 5347
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Flaming religion I meant. Sorry, is that not what Snake321 meant? I thought the idea was to avoid the usual "slating/slagging off -religion" free-for-all!!
I don't think religion as a whole uses fear to convert people. Although some fundamentalist regimes, and some extremist groups have done, it is not like that in most religions. Which ones were you thinking of? |
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