 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
SpaceCase
Always Here,Never There...
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 2669
Location: Mississippi,USA
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Can a woman be lesbian AND feminist??? |
 |
|
Can a woman be lesbian/bisexual and STILL be a feminist?
-SpaceCase
_________________
I'll be damned if I do,I'll be damned if I don't...
Well,I'll be damned!
I'LL DO WHAT I WANT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 22397
Location: San Marcos, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Normally, I don't post in this forum.
However, I feel that a woman who is lesbian/bisexual has the same right to be a feminist as a woman who is straight.
Tim
_________________
When you need something, that's a responsibility, that only an adult...of my maturity...Bunnies!!!
~Meatwad, Aqua Teen Hunger Force |
|
| Back to top |
|
alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6321
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I thought most lesbians were feminists... |
|
| Back to top |
|
SpaceCase
Always Here,Never There...
Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Age: 18
Posts: 2669
Location: Mississippi,USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| alex wrote: | | I thought most lesbians were feminists... |
NO. 
-SpaceCase
_________________
I'll be damned if I do,I'll be damned if I don't...
Well,I'll be damned!
I'LL DO WHAT I WANT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 58
Posts: 8238
Location: Oregon, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
how can you be a lesbian and NOT be a feminist?
straight women might not be feminists because they have an 'in' with the ruling class.
but a lesbian doesn't have that hook up, so why would they hold with a system that made them second class?
fem·i·nism (fĕm'ə-nĭz'əm)
n.
Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
The movement organized around this belief. |
|
| Back to top |
|
KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2538
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It depends on how you define "feminist". Anyone can be a feminist-in the sense that they believe women should have equal rights, opportunities and responsibilities as men.
The group may narrow if you define feminist as "activist".
It narrows even more if you (incorrectly) define feminist as "man hater".
Vice versa, someone can deny feminism if they believe that
a) there is no power imbalance between the sexes or
b)men are right to be in " control" because of some advantage their sex has, or
c)they are unconscious |
|
| Back to top |
|
Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 22397
Location: San Marcos, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KimJ wrote: | | It depends on how you define "feminist". Anyone can be a feminist-in the sense that they believe women should have equal rights, opportunities and responsibilities as men. |
This is my definition of feminist as well.
Tim
_________________
When you need something, that's a responsibility, that only an adult...of my maturity...Bunnies!!!
~Meatwad, Aqua Teen Hunger Force |
|
| Back to top |
|
0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5079
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sinsboldly wrote: | | how can you be a lesbian and NOT be a feminist? |
Any which way. Just because a woman is gay doesn't mean she isn't prejudiced.
In the 80's there were several feminist activist groups that I would consider very anti-feminist. They wanted their members to live in communes. If they had a family they were encouraged to break with them. The result was broken families and mothers that left children behind or abandon their husband/partner. Every woman was assumed to be gay regardless of whether they were or not. Men weren't allowed to be feminist according to them. Despite doing some direct action/vandalism they also managed to get themselves on some prominent political comities. They got star struck with the identity politics of the day, and that was more divisive than anything. The label 'feminist' itself has become a dirty word or almost meaningless. Considering that prejudice can come from every angle and the very complicated dynamics involved I feel I'd rather identify myself as a humanist rather than a feminist, and feel it would be better to tackle it with a comprehensive approach as many things are related. That doesn’t mean there still aren’t important women’s issues that need to be addressed.
SpaceCase. Sexuality is important, but feminism is not just about sexuality. I would be only concerned with what you believe in rather than whether people think its ok for you to be called. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 58
Posts: 8238
Location: Oregon, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
just think about what you are saying, 0_equals_true.
that women of the 80's were somehow of one mind about feminism.
that women were coerced to leave their happy homes and forced to join 'communes'
that perfectly good heterosexuals were somehow successfully indoctrinated to become homosexuals
that they were forced to join communities where their personal rights and freedoms were mandatorily given up (by peer pressure or a gun to the head or what ever made them toe the fascist feminist line.)
that they were compelled to commit vandalism and become 'star struck' in their political power
and
because of all this illegal kidnapping and forced indoctrination the people that did all this were not arrested and convicted of these crimes but they simply caused their label of 'feminism' to be a "dirty word, or meaningless"and the perpetrators walked away Scot Free?
no, you are talking about Lesbian Separatist Communities, not the Feminism Movement. They are concurrent but they are NOT the same.
So tell me, 0_equals_true, if all this was done to innocents, don't you think I could find one case, even ONE CASE of it on WestLaw?
Perhaps it is listed next to the mythological 'bra burning(http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/bra_burning.htm)
So, 0_equals_true, since I lived in Berkeley and in the Feminist movement of the 1960's till the present, I would love to see some actual documentation to your outrageous claims about feminism of the 80's. I will not accept any information from Rush Limbaugh, though, so that might just cut down on your 'proof'.
oh, and I have the documentation, so bring it on.
Merle |
|
| Back to top |
|
KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2538
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I can't stand when someone brings up some radical corner of a movement and then says that it tainted the whole movement.
I wouldn't even say that the Lesbian Separatists are indicative of many lesbians, again, a corner of one group.
In all my life, the only man-haters have I ever come across are straight women, mostly divorced and over 30. I never understood it, but I guess many misogynist men worked the same way. (desiring a relationship with a gender you hate and fear) |
|
| Back to top |
|
0_equals_true
Quack!
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5079
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sinsboldly wrote: | just think about what you are saying, 0_equals_true.
that women of the 80's were somehow of one mind about feminism.
that women were coerced to leave their happy homes and forced to join 'communes'
that perfectly good heterosexuals were somehow successfully indoctrinated to become homosexuals
that they were forced to join communities where their personal rights and freedoms were mandatorily given up (by peer pressure or a gun to the head or what ever made them toe the fascist feminist line.)
that they were compelled to commit vandalism and become 'star struck' in their political power
and
because of all this illegal kidnapping and forced indoctrination the people that did all this were not arrested and convicted of these crimes but they simply caused their label of 'feminism' to be a "dirty word, or meaningless"and the perpetrators walked away Scot Free?
no, you are talking about Lesbian Separatist Communities, not the Feminism Movement. They are concurrent but they are NOT the same.
So tell me, 0_equals_true, if all this was done to innocents, don't you think I could find one case, even ONE CASE of it on WestLaw?
Perhaps it is listed next to the mythological 'bra burning(http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/bra_burning.htm)
So, 0_equals_true, since I lived in Berkeley and in the Feminist movement of the 1960's till the present, I would love to see some actual documentation to your outrageous claims about feminism of the 80's. I will not accept any information from Rush Limbaugh, though, so that might just cut down on your 'proof'.
oh, and I have the documentation, so bring it on.
Merle |
Wow wasn't expecting that. I never said that were women were of one mind ever. In fact I think that is a flaw of some people who call themselves feminists have.
'several feminist activist groups' does not equal all. I meant a number of not even the majority, they just happened to have some influence such as the Greater London Council.
Now I’m am extremist, great…
I'll try to find the bbc documentary, that interviewed various people in various feminist groups. I never said they were forced or coerced. I did see some regret and also tears in one or two of them not all. That doesn't mean they didn't still feel they didn't do important work, or even believe in it. What I was talking about happened in the uk.
Regardless I still don't see how you would think being gay automatically make you free of prejudice or a feminist. That was my point after all.
Please can you re-read what I wrote? to try see it in a slightly differently light--I'm not a neocon. I just think the world 'feminism' has ownership issues with some people. The identity politic problem was something brought up by some the members themselves and creating an impossibly fragmented system.
I would consider myself a humanist. Especially we as humans are capable of choices, even counter to our original animal behavior or as it is involving. That is an amazing/beautiful capability that we have. We actually need that to live in a society in my opinion, constantly adjusting to gain a sense of stability. I don’t really think anyone is ever ‘stable’ as in there isn’t neutral in a person people adjust all the time so that we can get along or not. As a liberal I believe people have a choice to live ‘traditionally’ so long as they don’t force their view on other people. Traditions come and go. I’m not really a fan of Victorianism. But I wouldn’t insist on my lifestyle either, or even claim to know myself. The 60’s was by no means the first ‘sexual revolution’ or as you said all that accurately depicted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
blondie
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 370
Location: San Antonio, Texas
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Hi |
|
|
To answer your question I think so. 
_________________
I am 18yrs old and have 3 younger brothers.
There are 4 aspies in our family, dad, me and my
two little brothers 13, 5. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sandra3
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 333
Location: california
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| well first off there were straight women feminists, but then as lesbians became more out there they wanted to be part of that whole empowerment thing even though some straight women feminists didn't want them in thier ranks it eventually came to where there were more lesbian feminists than straight ones. feminism is for everyone lesbian or not. It's all about getting together and empowering eachother and yourself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ghostgurl
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 07, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 1557
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't see why not.
_________________
Currently Reading: Survival by Juliet E. Czerneda
http://dazed-girl.livejournal.com/
Vote Kalister 2008 |
|
| Back to top |
|
hale_bopp
Ruffle some Feathers
Joined: Nov 03, 2004
Age: 23
Posts: 6333
Location: New Zealand
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah.
I'm more wondering whether a woman can be straight and a femenist, because I think that's what I am. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
