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GhostOfTheChameleon
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 20, 2007
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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activebutodd:
I don't mean to be rude, but your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
| activebutodd wrote: | | I don't see it as men being banned or sexism, or me having a problem. I would simply prefer it if men politely refrained from posting here, because this is a women's area. I don't want to be talking with the ladies here about something sensitive that women experience (periods, breasts, abuse) to have a man reply or make a less than constructive remark. |
Something sensitive that men, and men only, shouldn't see or respond to? Sounds like an insecurity issue to me. Why do you care if I read or reply to something, if what I have to say is constructive or even supportive?
And let's just say that all posts by men were deleted, per the original plan for this forum. Those less than constructive remarks would be deleted no sooner or later than if the person was, in fact, a woman. Nothing would've been gained.
| Quote: |
I'm not downing anyone, but I've personally read many posts here and saw where a woman was asking if there were other ladies on here who were bisexual or lesbian, and got a crude comment from a man. There were sarcastic replies from male posters when a woman was trying to ask if other women had experienced sexual harassment.
Also, there was a thread about not liking to have breasts, and I was happy I could have a matter of fact groan, all girls together. But then a well meaning man said "It's ok, I think small breasts are hot" and that changed it from women talking about something they have in common to a man bringing his opinion and a sexual element into it. Even if he had a good intent. I'm feeling uncomfortable being open in Women's Discussion because I don't want remarks like that about what I say. |
Again, same as above. Whether the person is male or not, the post would be visited by a moderator in the same amount of time. Right?
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Read the topic description! Women's discussion, where women can feel safe to be themselves.
Of course you can't stop people reading anything, but I'd be willing to refrain from posting or even stay out of a mens forum so they could discuss things without embarrassment- and I'd like that same courtesy please.
After all- If these things are replied to a lot by men, sensitive topics being discussed by the women here draw a lot of justifying or hostile remarks from male posters, and women are told to refrain from posting if they don't want men horning in on the topic- then why don't we just talk about these things in the general discussion then, or keep our mouths shut? What's the point even having a Women's Discussion at all?
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We have a women's discussion forum for the same reason we have mathematics forums that don't delete posts from anyone who isn't a mathematician. It's the topic of discussion. In that forum, you talk about things related to math. In this forum, you talk about things related to women or being a woman. The different forums exist, in my opinion, as an organizational tool to help readers and posters find the topics they're interested in, not to discriminate against people or create some kind of private sub-community.
I respect and fully support any person's desire only to keep asinine posts out of their threads, especially when the topic is of a personal nature; however, I'm not ignorant or intolerant enough to exclude any group of people. Why don't we have an all whites board where we can all get down and talk about reverse racism, etc, without those awful blackies coming in and mucking everything up? Similarly, why don't we have an african american board where we can talk about oppression and African-American culture without those nosy whities perverting everything? IMHO it's because it's wrong--no matter where, why, or to what degree this mentality is applied.
It's fundamentally flawed. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 13226
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Alex had a 'men's only forum' and it was moved into the Adult forum on Thu May 03, 2007.
it's Alex's site he did as he does, go figure. 
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where sin abounds, grace abounds the more;
Non omnis moriar |
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TrinityDejavu
Hummingbird
Joined: May 25, 2009
Age: 33
Posts: 23
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | | Alex had a 'men's only forum' and it was moved into the Adult forum on Thu May 03, 2007. |
Well, thats not suprising, no, not at all.
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Lifestyle D/s, TPE, Aspie, Pagan, Poly, Pan, Gorean, Goth, Cyberpunk, Darkwave, SL, Lisdexic, Love and Marmite. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 13226
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TrinityDejavu wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: | | Alex had a 'men's only forum' and it was moved into the Adult forum on Thu May 03, 2007. |
Well, thats not suprising, no, not at all. |
it was mostly an 'adult' forum anyway IIRC
_________________
where sin abounds, grace abounds the more;
Non omnis moriar |
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Padium
For I am The One Who Is
Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 2369
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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And still I go unanswered...
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My skin is not my own --- Leto Atreides, son of Maud'dib
Auguries of destruction make a lullaby for rebirth |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 13226
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Padium wrote: | | And still I go unanswered... |
life can be like that, Padium.
I think what it means is no one speaks for the Woman's Discussion section. If you want to post, by all means do so. If you don't care to post, then don't. Sorry, I don't have an answer for you other than that.
_________________
where sin abounds, grace abounds the more;
Non omnis moriar |
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activebutodd
Phoenix
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Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Padium- | Quote: | | And still I go unanswered... |
If you see yourself as a woman, well that's good enough for me. 
sinsboldly- I respect your position as a Moderator, and I'm not trying to cause trouble. This is a great site and I've already received valuable information about something I was struggling with. I'd like to stay on. It's just that as a new person I've taken some time to read through to get a feel for the forum and learn what the right behaviour is, and I'm a little uneasy at some of the responses I've read.
Is there a more appropriate method (eg PM) or thread that I should be discussing this in? I'm open to your suggestions.
I just feel like it's a bit strange that a structured Women's Discussion was made but I'm still getting such a nebulous and inconsistent idea of it's spirit and what the guidelines are.
And I have seen some unsupportive or crude stuff posted by males when the women are trying to discuss something, which is why I thought the women were given a section for that? Everyone has a different idea. 'Women's Discussion should be for women?' 'Just get over it because men will say all kinds of things and they're allowed?' 'Post a header asking for women's responses only?' 'Just don't talk about the girl stuff even though there's a thread made for it?'
I saw someone say once that posts would be deleted etc but that doesn't happen, I don't really know what the go with any of it is and would like to get it sorted out in my head because it's causing me a lot of confusion and discomfort.  |
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millie
bits, pieces, brass, animals
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Age: 47
Posts: 2981
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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sometimes men can make a valuable contribution to a thread in the women's section.
I am not terribly good at ignoring posts that are inflammatory - I often just reply and then reflect later that it is better to ignore troublesome posts that are not to my liking.
Activebutodd...maybe just ignore the posts you do not like (if you can) and get on with the business of responding to posts that engage you or are meaningful to you.
as for those with more fluid sexuality and gender - - my feeling is all are welcome. always have been and always will be.
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animals are the safest friends to have |
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activebutodd
Phoenix
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Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Millie. I'm not saying men should be banned and never contribute because they're all bad and such things. No. What I mean is I'm comfortable with guys having something to add if it's THAT important to them (probably personally more so in topics like society, than more body ones I guess, but whatever) but the reason I got so unhappy about it was when I saw that some replies were very sarcastic or inappropriate. That makes it really difficult to get the best out of that discussion area imo.
I don't think that's hugely unreasonable to want to know whether that's alright. (Incidentally I actually have ignored one that quoted me because I didn't want to be drawn by it)
Breaking my view down so people know exactly what I mean and don't think me out of line-
Comfort levels.
*If a guy posts asking to understand better what his wife/girlfriend experiences or something, I'm not going to fuss. Ditto if a member is MTF, I don't mind.
*If a man starts posting in a breasts and periods kinda thread, I don't know about that so much, or why they're so interested. (Unless they're a doctor, but you can go to those in RL if things are that bad.)
*If a male makes angry comments when women talk about their experiences or takes the topic in an inappropriately sexual way when that wasn't wanted, then I really don't feel comfortable with that.
There. That's that I've been saying. I don't hate men or want to make drama. I just feel ^ like that. Some of it was before I joined, but I wanted to work out any kinks about stuff now because I'd like to stay on here.
Also, I've been operating so far under the idea that the Women's Discussion was for women. But now it occurs to me that maybe it is intended to be for anyone, and created for talking about women and such? I don't know... the topic was not specific. Is that how it works, because that simplifies matters if it is. Maybe if I'm aware of that, post a header 'can women only reply' and if that's respected..
I guess in that case I can keep posting and work around it that way. |
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millie
bits, pieces, brass, animals
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Age: 47
Posts: 2981
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I see what you mean. But that means one would need a policeman/woman moderator at the women;s forum gate, and maybe that is getting into a realm that is too subjective and complex to actually arbitrate over. I think the mods always do their best here..even when they pull me up about my bluntness or my lack of awareness of inappropriate behaviour.
good luck anyway. hope you enjoy WP. I do. It has become a very important part of my life, even though I can get annoyed here at times.
there are good people here. see you round....
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animals are the safest friends to have |
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CelticGoddess
Lost in a song
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 2884
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Padium wrote: | | So, being an MTF transexual, where do i stand??? |
Totally welcome, IMO  |
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activebutodd
Phoenix
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Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Millie, I think I will enjoy it here! You make a good point.
It doesn't really help me with topics where the OP hasn't specifically requested 'female', but I will use the header myself and if I see something way disrespectful in a current discussion I will PM a mod and let them decide what to do. Meh!
Thanks for discussing with me. Ok, I shall now go around to 'see what I can see'! |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 13226
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| activebutodd wrote: |
sinsboldly- I respect your position as a Moderator, and I'm not trying to cause trouble. This is a great site and I've already received valuable information about something I was struggling with. I'd like to stay on. It's just that as a new person I've taken some time to read through to get a feel for the forum and learn what the right behaviour is, and I'm a little uneasy at some of the responses I've read.
Is there a more appropriate method (eg PM) or thread that I should be discussing this in? I'm open to your suggestions.
I just feel like it's a bit strange that a structured Women's Discussion was made but I'm still getting such a nebulous and inconsistent idea of it's spirit and what the guidelines are.
And I have seen some unsupportive or crude stuff posted by males when the women are trying to discuss something, which is why I thought the women were given a section for that? Everyone has a different idea. 'Women's Discussion should be for women?' 'Just get over it because men will say all kinds of things and they're allowed?' 'Post a header asking for women's responses only?' 'Just don't talk about the girl stuff even though there's a thread made for it?'
I saw someone say once that posts would be deleted etc but that doesn't happen, I don't really know what the go with any of it is and would like to get it sorted out in my head because it's causing me a lot of confusion and discomfort. |
Hello activebutodd! Welcome to WP and I hope you love it here as much as our other members!There used to be a moderator here in the Woman's Discussion section. I don't know what happened to her, as all moderators are volunteer and we are just happy when someone shows up. When they are gone, they are often just gone with no explanation.
If someone wants a post deleted or a thread moved to another section or even completely removed, then PM a moderator. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt76158.html has a list of them. If someone is in violation of the rules, then please PM a mod. WP is huge and we depend on our membership to keep WP the type of place they want it to be and clue the moderation team in on what is going on.
So, everyone is a moderator to some extent. This section: The WP Discussion Section http://www.wrongplanet.net/forum13.html is where a lot of members start threads about concerns with WP. You are certainly welcome to post there your concerns.
As a member I used to post in the Woman's thread, but as a mod, I have been too heavily scrutinized about my 'feminist' ways to want to call down comment on my personal feelings. Perhaps someday, when I pass the moderator baton I can go back to being just a member and be able to use WP like other members and not have that double standard to labor under.
But that is another story! Welcome to WP!
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where sin abounds, grace abounds the more;
Non omnis moriar |
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activebutodd
Phoenix
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Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Ok, thanks! That helps a lot  |
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julebird
Emu Egg
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Age: 21
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| GhostOfTheChameleon wrote: |
We have a women's discussion forum for the same reason we have mathematics forums that don't delete posts from anyone who isn't a mathematician. It's the topic of discussion. In that forum, you talk about things related to math. In this forum, you talk about things related to women or being a woman. The different forums exist, in my opinion, as an organizational tool to help readers and posters find the topics they're interested in, not to discriminate against people or create some kind of private sub-community.
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Um. Does anyone see the flaw in this? Mathematics is an object, we can treat it thus, talk ABOUT it. I know I'm new here but pls bear with... I'd hazard a guess that the purpose of this section isn't to talk about women, it's FOR women to talk about things that concern them/us/whatever. I know you didn't explicitly say that GhostOfTheChameleon, but could be seen as somewhat implied - and "talking about" was actually stated by someone else in this thread (cbf to go and find the quote)..
Anyway...
Try to think of it this way. In a science/math forum, the forum is open to everyone. However if someone has a specifically technical question, they might request that experts in that field only reply. Someone who is not familiar with the technicalities of that field might complicate matters further, or bring the discussion to something that is not entirely relevant. It doesn't mean the non experts are incapable of contributing, or that their contribution is invaluable, just that their contribution may not, or may be unlikely to, progress the discussion to the desired level, and could even slow it down (such as with n00b questions).
This is about efficiency. It's not that we don't value men's contributions, just that because our experiences are more closely linked in this one particular way, women are more able to get to the point on certain issues faster. Perhaps if a male truly has something valuable to add, he could start a new thread addressing the issue, or still try to contribute but be prepared for whatever response, especially if there was a warning at the start of the thread.
I think it's fair enough if someone has been sufficiently notified that they be prepared for the consequences of their actions, no matter the situation. And anyone who feels they can't contribute but still wishes to is welcome to start a new thread to address the topic, in which they are perfectly welcome to state who they would prefer to hear responses from. |
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