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Neuroman
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Joined: Jul 05, 2005
Posts: 1891
Location: 1134
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Um
What is a Troll?
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| anbuend wrote: |
Count me in as another one who can't seem to pass no matter how much I learn. (Even if I know the exact nature of a situation and how a person-in-general is supposed to respond to it, it's very rare that I can actually do so. My processing speed can be too slow for that, or my body will not respond in a typical way. People know I'm different even if they don't know anything about autism (usually they'll then go to "intoxicated," "psychotic", or "intellectually disabled" as their assumptions, also sometimes cerebral palsy since I use a wheelchair, despite the fact that I don't look like I have CP).
But I also know people who can socially pass for NT, but that's pretty much all. Like they can pass, but they can't cook for themselves and/or they are incontinent, etc. They use up all their energy on passing. So generalizing coping abilities in terms of "passing skills" to other skills doesn't always work, and people in that position often find it much harder to get services than, for instance, I do. (Not that I've found it easy, but that the fact that I "look autistic" in many people's narrow idea of what "autistic" looks like, helps.) Even if everything about their skills they need services for are the same as the ones I need services for, the passing is counted against them.
I have developed a lot of what some people would call coping skills, but of necessity pretty much none of them have to do with acting NT or in doing things the NT way. If I tried to do that, I'd not only fail but have no energy left for anything important. Some of them are internal things that I can't describe easily but help me internally deal with situations better even if externally I'm doing things in the same way. Many of them depend on doing things much, much more slowly than most people do them. (Like taking days or weeks to hold a conversation that most people would hold in hours.) Etc.
But none of them leave me really able, the way society is currently structured, to do things the way other people call independent. (I have serious problems with the values underlying that whole idea, but I'm too tired to come up with the language for how things actually are.)
The most important thing I have developed is communication skills, particularly writing, so that even if I can do little else, I can direct how I want to live my life. That's the most important one to me. |
Very similar to me in some of these respects. At one point I did waste a lot of energy trying to appear normal. Sometimes people said that I was either in a shell, or hiding behind a facade. They would ask me to let them see inside. Hesitantly, I let some of them. Instantly, they no longer wanted anything to do with me. Trying to maintain that NT appearance almost killed me. I started having severe rage attacks without warning and things that had bothered me somewhat started to bother me much more. It was as if I could no longer maintain the shell. Then one day it all collapsed and I was completely out of my shell. That's what led me to a DX. I refuse to waste that energy on trying to appear the way others want me to. If that means I don't fit in than I don't want to fit in anyhow. They either accept me for who I am, or they don't. The odd thing is, that even when I thought I was completely hidden in my shell and that no one would ever suspect that something may be wrong with me (I always suspected it, but could never admit it to myself, or anyone else), others saw it (many were often very cruel about it).
What a waste of energy it was trying to maintain my own delusion that if I just tried harder then I could be like "them." The harder I tried, the worse the stress affected me. It was like I could fake being normal long enough to get hired somewhere, but then within a week, or two my communication skills would fail, or I would meltdown, or do something clumsy that made bosses think I was a liability. I have had 7 jobs in 30 years and according to Social Security did not hold one for longer than 2 weeks.
I can take a long time to have a conversation too. It is as if things do not immediately register, or process and I will dwell on them for days, or weeks until I fully understand what the conversation was about to begin with. Sometimes, when I was not thinking about the conversation I would suddenly realize what someone was talking about and then try to reinitialize the discussion, which the other person had almost always forgotten about. Once I was DX'd and learned that other people find some of these traits highly annoying I just stopped talking, as I figured not too many people would be really interested in my interests anyhow. I find it really easy to write my thoughts and feeling, I always have. But even my mom says that when I was a child I just never communicated with anyone. Places like this give me an outlet and allow me to examine my own self, in the posts of others and even in my own.
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The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Neuroman wrote: | Um
What is a Troll? |
A troll is a person who is actively looking for opportunities to cause trouble on forums and in chatrooms. They will usually post something that they think will get people into arguments and cause divisions, while the troll sits back and laughs about it.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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Neuroman
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 05, 2005
Posts: 1891
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like that would really not work here. One of the things about me that makes me a good crisis counselor (and a poor commercial materialist), is that people have a lot of trouble provoking me. LOL, one of those people is my supervisor, who is trying to get me to be insubordinate. She gets pretty angry when I respond with logic.
A good example: I have to go to another program some mornings to pick up a book of reports; one day she called there and asked where I was because no one at my program had known where I was. She kept saying it as if I had been missing. And over and over, where were you? I siad, I was right there at the program, and I asked her why they hadn't called the program since I had called them when I got there. I suggested that if no one knew where I was, then how did she know to call there to find me. She got pretty angry and said, "Just get over there right now." I asked again why they hadn't called the program, and she got angrier, so I just said I would go over there.
Or maybe it is from the work I do that I have developed some immunity.
I thought the NT vs ND question was a pretty good one. I see a lot of borderlines that look very autistic. The difference is that they have the ability to connect. I would be jealous except I tried cutting and it did nothing for me. Hitting my head works better. Also the kind of attention that I have seen borderlines enjoy would freak me out (too much emotional noise, too much talking and touching).
Hm. That makes trolls sound kind of like borderlines.
Sorry you lost your post, deep thought. I usually don't do spoken conversation because even when I am doing well I get left behind pretty quickly, or say something stupid and then get ignored. When I am not doing well it takes me a very long time to write things (motor and other issues). A lot of times I compose in word processor and then paste into email or forums.
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Raised by Wolves
if you are going through hell, keep going.
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: |
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I have considered writing the posts in a word processor more often myself. I actually do sometimes, but rarely. I just started copying the text after each edit.
At my doctor's one time, my companion told him that I was mad at her about something. He said "He can't be mad at you." When she asked why, he said "because to be angry at someone requires a relationship and he is not capable of having relationships." This stunned me so much that I couldn't even ask what he meant, but as I realized the implications of that statement, after the appointment, I began nagging my companion for her to explain it to me. She couldn't. A month later at the next appointment I asked him what he meant by that. He said that in order for me to be in a true relationship, I would have to be able to connect with the person and I am not able to do that. He said that I am unable to reciprocate emotions, or even comprehend that the other person has emotions. My companion then said to me, "yes, you are the only one with emotions." At this point I felt like I was in a bubble and what little realness there was in my visual senses of the things around me simply collapsed. I said, "right now I feel like both of you are illusions, or like angels, or aliens and you have come to tell me that I am the only person that exists, or has emotions." My companion said, "in your perspective, you are the only one that has emotions, no one else around you does." The doctor then said that this is because of my inability to connect with people. He reminded me that this is part of the reason why I have a companion, because she can connect for me and then translate things to me in a way that I can understand.
Later I did some thinking and realized that things I think are relationships are all based on my own needs and what the other person can do to meet those needs. I told my doctor that I sometimes feel like I am the center of the solar system and everyone around me has to stay in perfect sync with that and if they don't then I explode. I said that Jupiter can't decide that it wants to revolve around Mars and if it did, then there would be total chaos. He agreed and said "yes, in the world that you have created in your mind, you are the center of the universe and there is no connection between that universe and the universe that others around you live in, that is the autism." So my companion acts like a connection between me and this other world that I cannot comprehend.
I will be talking to my doctor today about his Bipolar and my companion's Borderline theories. As of this time 3 doctors and Social Security have determined Asperger's without a doubt. My mom describes my behavior as a child like any description I have ever read about Asperger's. In second grade my teacher even nicknamed me "Little Professor," which is too mind boggling for me to contemplate. Two doctors I have seen (one an "expert" on AS) both said that had it not been for my very early quick development of language and verbal ability, my DX would have been HFA. No one ever mentioned Bipolar, or Borderline for at least a year, until my companion told my doctor that I said "sometimes I just have to buy things." That triggered his suspicion. When I read the symptoms of Borderline, I do see some of them in myself as well, but nothing that can't be connect to Asperger's and/or Tourette's and my extreme OCD (that's quite a bit pilied up against me). I definitely do not do too much talking, unless I am provoked into an Aspie monologue and touching is not something I like to give, or receive. I often do not react well to anyone trying to physically connect with me. Two doctors have said that I am the most obsessive compulsive person that they have ever encountered. My doctor told me to watch As Good as it Gets because I am very much like Jack Nicolson's obsessive compulsive character. I have not yet seen the movie.
I also think that if someone has suspicions that certain people may not really be Aspie's, whether they are faking it (again, why someone would even want to do that is beyond me), or simply have another condition that is similar, they shouldn't have to feel like that subject is off limits. However, I don't think that posting numbers of suspects is a good idea, although that in itself is basically an Aspie trait. I think that this thread has revealed a lot about people. Had it not been for this thread, I personally would have continued feeling like no one here really understand, or shares some of my more severe difficulties.
As I mentioned in a previous post and tried to expand on in my reply to you, which was deleted by my clumsiness, if there is any prestige in being an Aspie it is certainly earned. If being an Aspie makes anyone special, then part of the reason they are special is because they have endured far more suffering, heartache and frustration that the typical person can even comprehend. My mom says that the most amazing thing about me is the fact that I have survived as long as I have. I do not know what it is like for people who have been less severely affected by autism than myself. When people here post things that I can easilly relate to, then I can get a sense of the things they may have experienced, based on my own experiences. In a sense that is making some sort of connection, but only by familiarity, as if looking at one's self in a mirror. I don't think that someone with BPD would be able to understand my experiences, especial if they do not know what it is like spending years of your life wanting something that they have and never being able to get it no matter how hard you try.
For a long time I wanted to be married and have kids. This was really messed up. I couldn't keep a job, was supported by my mother and was searching for a wife. Because I had a Jim Morrison.Jimmy Page type of appearance when I was younger, not to mention I played music, may members of the female sex were attracted to me. Each time I though I had found what I was looking for and I would soon have my desires. I did not know that my desires were not their desires. I did not know that my meltdowns and my social inadequacies we nto what these people considered normal. I eventually began to suspect that I would never have this, but it wasn't until my understanding of autism that I knew why and was able to come to an acceptance of it. When I hear Aspies talk about their spouses and children, I often wonder how they do it, or did it. I wonder how they manage to remain in such relationships day after day. What secret do they know that I don't? What am I not doing that they are? Certainly, if I were a father, it would not be good for the child/children. Sometimes I think the same thing about Aspies who hold jobs. How do they do it? I know that many Aspies are able to hold jobs. I am not one of them, which, as with the marriage issue, makes it hard for me to comprehend.
I do not mean to offend anyone, I am simply being honest and speaking my thoughts. I know there are some that may take offense to some of the things I have said. However, I am interested in knowing some of these things. Please, if you are married and/or have children, let us know: how do you do it? How are you able to connect and have relationships? I know how Neuroman keeps his job, he is comfortable in that environment, although as is the case for many Aspies, he has shown that like myself, he is still a target for bullies. Though Neuroman's description shows a more sophisticated form of bullying, these people who do those things are still bullies.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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Feather
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| DeepThought wrote: |
I do not care who here has an official DX and who doesn't. What I care about is people who may try to say that there is no need for an official DX, when in fact, for some people there is a real need for one. Just because one person does not have a need for an official DX, does not mean they should make other people who do have a need for one, or even think they should get one feel belittled. As far as acceptable AS behavior on forums, or in a chatroom, everyone is different and I think the written rules define the limitations of what is acceptable. However, it is important to remember that no one should assume that everyone here should have, or does have the same coping skills, or other abilities, no matter how old they are. No one should be trying to make anyone with less coping skills (using this as an example) feel bad because of that. Where one is weak another may be strong.
Just because someone is undiagnosed, for whatever reason, does not mean they should be treated differently than those who are. |
Exactly. My last post on this thread was written about me and my needs, and lack of dx. I do see however that many people do require a dx. The point I was trying to make is that, considering many of the so-called professionals get it wrong, it is not possible to point the finger and say 'you're not AS' over the internet.
Also re-reading my post, I realise that I have come across as very confident in my abilities. I often overestimate what I am capable of and get myself into difficult situations, and this is exactly what I have done in my earlier post. I have some coping skills, but they are not fantastic. I don't know whether I sometimes manage to come across as NT or not - I have nothing to measure that against. I don't know how I appear to others, or what others think of me. I only know how I percieve myself, and how I percieve the world around me. I am not able to judge how I come across.
| Quote: | | I do not mean to offend anyone, I am simply being honest and speaking my thoughts. I know there are some that may take offense to some of the things I have said. However, I am interested in knowing some of these things. Please, if you are married and/or have children, let us know: how do you do it? How are you able to connect and have relationships? I know how Neuroman keeps his job, he is comfortable in that environment, although as is the case for many Aspies, he has shown that like myself, he is still a target for bullies. Though Neuroman's description shows a more sophisticated form of bullying, these people who do those things are still bullies. |
I have not taken offense to anything you have said, I find the topic fascinating. I have a part-time job at the moment, because my friend hired me. I'm good at databases and things like that. I find being in employment hugely stressful - just sitting in an office with another person a bit much. I've been unemployed for quite long periods, and had great difficulties in every job I've ever had.
As far as my relationship goes, all I can put it down to is that my partner must love me a great deal, and it is often difficult for both of us. I'm not even sure I know what you mean by 'connect'. Maybe that is indicative of a lack of awareness of the issue itself. I am unsure about the subject. But then I seriously doubt that he is NT. Many aspects of him are similar to me, some are different, some are more severe, some things that I find difficult he finds easy and vice versa. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe we connect but differently, on a different level to other couples. I don't know, because I'm not sure I understand the question.  |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Exactly. My last post on this thread was written about me and my needs, and lack of dx. I do see however that many people do require a dx. The point I was trying to make is that, considering many of the so-called professionals get it wrong, it is not possible to point the finger and say 'you're not AS' over the internet. |
I have been officially diagnosed by 2 professionals and the DX was confirmed by a doctor I started seeing when I was 7 (31 years ago), who knew my family and remembered me. The first offcial DX came from one of those "experts" in autism and learning disabilities. The second came from a doctor that doesn't claim to be at that level of expertise, but has a significant amount of experience (30 years) with autism, though less with AS, which of course is understandable. In my case I am sure that no one got it wrong, but that is because I have been fortunate enough to find doctors that know enough about it to get it right.
| Quote: | | Also re-reading my post, I realise that I have come across as very confident in my abilities. I often overestimate what I am capable of and get myself into difficult situations, and this is exactly what I have done in my earlier post. I have some coping skills, but they are not fantastic. I don't know whether I sometimes manage to come across as NT or not - I have nothing to measure that against. I don't know how I appear to others, or what others think of me. I only know how I percieve myself, and how I percieve the world around me. I am not able to judge how I come across. |
There have been times when I have tried to be more NT-like (prior to my DX). I discussed this with my companion last night, who met me before I was diagnosed with AS. The conclusion we reached was that my efforts to be more NT-like only appeared to be working from my perspective. Part of the problem was that typicals have the ability to just apply social rules that come naturally to them. In my case I had to recall things that I had read, or observed from memory and determine which would be appropriate in certain situations. If a situation arose that I was not familiar with, then it became obvious to others that something was wrong and I would simply feel like I was retarded.
| Quote: | | I'm not even sure I know what you mean by 'connect'. Maybe that is indicative of a lack of awareness of the issue itself. I am unsure about the subject. |
I understand and in a way share your sentiments about the term "connect." Had someone told me that I am unable to connect with someone before I had a doctor to at least try explain it, I probably would have gotten very upset at them and thought they were trying to belittle me. In a way I simply parrot certain things, but I do think I have a minimal understanding of my inability to connect. From what I know about myself, I am not able to function on the same social level as other people. My social/emotional developmental level is that of a 7 years old. This means, almost literally, that my soial and emotional skills ceased developing at the age of 7. My efforts to be more NT-like were simply me copying other people and sometimes I copied the WRONG people. I am unable to perceive emotions in other people, unless they are dramatically extreme and visually obvious. If someone says that they are sad, I simply do not feel anything for them. I usually wonder why they allow themselves to be sad about whatever they are sad about. If my mom said to me in tears, "I am very upset because my dog just died of old age," my response would probably be something like, "get a new one." Nothing really matters to me unless it has a direct affect on me. I guess that would be considered my lack of empathy. I don't even believe there is such a thing as empathy, by the standard definition.
This is one area where my doctor has really helped me. He is helping me to be more self aware. Before I started seeing him, I had the same lack of awareness that you described. Now, I may go in and ask him why I keep doing a certain thing. His explanation (such as me not being able to have relationships) may upset me at first, but as I think about his response and what it means between appointments, I usually start to understand and become more aware of the things that cause me to do this. Once I am aware of the cause of something I explain it back to my doctor. If he agrees with my conclusions, which is usually does, he makes sure that my companion undertsands and he guides her in knowing how to deal with certain things that may need to be dealt with. Just because I have become aware of certain things, does not mean I can control them. I have no internal calming mechanism and no ability to regulate emotional responses. I am aware of this, but that does not help to remove the inabilities.
I am not exactly sure of my question either. It was partly a matter of curiosity and partly me babbling with the keyboard. I live with my companion. We enjoy doing certain things together and I think that she really cares about me more than I am able to understand, or reciprocate back to her. Many times she has wanted to leave, telling me I need to be in a home for people with special needs, but she has not abandoned me. She has often told me that I am brutal and merciless. I do not think that I would make a good husband for anyone, even if I was actually able to get married.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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RobertN
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 934
Location: Cambridge, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Aspergians or Neurotypicals? |
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| aspergers_patrick wrote: | | I hope this will not offend anybody. But I have noticed a majority of non-aspergians on this website. Especially those having a "Have Aspergers - Undiagnosed" certification in their profiles. Also to say, I believe there are around only 200 aspergians on this website. Not necessarily do they talk much, whereas I notice an influx of Neurotypical activities presiding on the Forums. |
I don't think that aspergers_patrick was trolling. I do not agree with him, but he has a right to express his concerns about the forum, however incorrect he may or may not be.
An example of a troll would be someone who came in and said: "aspergers people are idiots" |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3053
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, some trolls are obvious like that, and others are more sophisticated. A very adept troll will essentially bring down a forum, by saying things that sound innocuous and treading a really thin line between following the rules and stirring things up. This then causes people to defend the troll when they are trolling, by saying "It's not trolling, it's legitimate conversation." The troll then proceeds to push everyone's buttons while still maintaining a fairly innocent appearance.
I don't know if that's what's going on here or not, and this isn't meant to say that aspergers_patrick is trolling. But lack of straightforward offensiveness (such as "Aspies are idiots") doesn't mean lack of trolling, the worst (most skilled) trolls are more subtle than that.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Aspergians or Neurotypicals? |
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| RobertN wrote: | | aspergers_patrick wrote: | | I hope this will not offend anybody. But I have noticed a majority of non-aspergians on this website. Especially those having a "Have Aspergers - Undiagnosed" certification in their profiles. Also to say, I believe there are around only 200 aspergians on this website. Not necessarily do they talk much, whereas I notice an influx of Neurotypical activities presiding on the Forums. |
I don't think that aspergers_patrick was trolling. I do not agree with him, but he has a right to express his concerns about the forum, however incorrect he may or may not be.
An example of a troll would be someone who came in and said: "aspergers people are idiots" |
Perhaps you could clarify what it is exactly that you don't agree with and the reasons you disagree.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Whether he was trolling, or not, this thread has not turned out in the manner a troll would hope for. I do not support his numbers, but I do agree with something Neuroman referenced and that is that many who may believe they are Aspies may actually be Borderline.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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azalynn
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 69
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I keep hearing about these comparisons between AS and borderline personality, however, I really have trouble seeing how the two could be THAT similar. For me, some major AS-related manifestations are sensory sensitivity and difficulty with spoken language pragmatics. I had speech abnormalities (i.e., pronoun reversal) as a youngster and have been told by people my entire life that I speak in an atypical, often excessively precise and pedantic manner. Neither of these traits is a characteristic of borderline.
In addition, borderline personality is often associated with an ephemeral or unstable sense of identity. I have an extremely strong sense of who I am and I am committed to being as consistent as possible. I have a hard time changing myself according to situations -- borderlines tend to be more "adaptable". Even in my dreams, I find myself unable to do things that are inconsistent with my everyday behavior and personal code of conduct. My identity is excessively rigid if anything. There were times during my youth when I experimented with
"alternative" subcultures (mainly because I liked the associated clothing!) but I was never able (or willing) to shake off the pervasive nerditude of my being. When my classmates went off to get drunk, etc., I'd still be going home to watch Star Trek.
Borderlines also seem to have a tremendous fear of abandonment and need for constant attention. I can see some Aspies perhaps having some abandonment fears due to past rejection, but this does not seem to be a defining attribute of AS. As for the attention -- I like some degree of companionship based on mutual interests, and I do not want to be hated, cursed, or imprisoned for misconceptions people may have about me, but I really dislike being either persecuted or fawned over. Too much attention in any form makes me very uncomfortable. I'd rather be left alone for the most part.
So, where did this idea come from that AS resembles BPD? I am still not seeing any relationship -- except perhaps that borderline attention-seeking tantrums could possibly resemble AS meltdowns, though that is a very superficial observation since the stimulus that prompts outbursts tends to differ greatly between these groups. |
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DeepThought
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that was simply a reference to make a point. It's all logic. Not everyone who exhibits a few Aspie traits is an Aspie. Not everyone who exhibits a few borderline traits has BPD. Sometimes a diagnosis by one, or more knowledgable professionals is required to get an accurate diagnosis, sometimes it isn't. You cannot assume that everyone's diagnosis (whether self-DX's or otherwise) is accurate, or innacurate. What does it matter? If they are right, fine, if they are wrong, that's fine too. Perhaps some of the ones who are wrong are Borderline, perhaps they are not. Who cares? Not everyone who is borderline has ALL of the traits of BPD and not everyone who is an Aspie has all of the traits of AS. Just because "identity disturbance" is listed in the DSM-IV-TR it doesn't mean that everyone with BPD has that trait. A person can have any 5 of the 9 listed characteristics.
It may be a good time for Neuroman to discuss the similarities betwen AS and BPD that he mentioned earlier.
If someone believes they are an Aspie, whether they are DX'd professionally, or not, then they must have some reason to believe that. Who are we to say that they are, or they aren't. Yeah, some may base their own DX on just a few things they have read, or a few similarities that they have with other Aspies with, or without taking their entire life into consideration. They may be right, they may be wrong. WHO CARES!? If they come here and everyone gets along, then fine. I am not sitting here browsing the site and counting who I believe is an Aspie and who I believe is not. I don't care who is and who isn't! I enjoy being able to express things here and to read things that other people post that I can relate to. MANY times I have desired to reply to a post that sounded very neurotypical to me, but I haven't. MANY times I have read things that Aspies here have posted that I could not understand. I am sure I have posted things that others have not understood as well... this thread shows some examples of that. Do I care if someone does not understand what I am saying? Sometimes. If I do I will try to ellaborate on it.
I show some signs of BPD and Bipolar. So what. I also show some signs of Narcissistic Disorder, Paranoia, Depersonalization, Schizoid, Schizotypical, Antisocial, Avoidant, Dependant and who knows what else. They come and go, seemingly as they please. I have not DX'd myself with any of them. My DX is in my signature. I am more obsessive compulsive than an army of Monks. Had I not gone to a doctor, I would never had even realized that a lot of the things I do are affected by my obsessive/compulsive traits. Some can relate to that, some can't. A lot of people say OCD traits are common with AS. That means little to me after 2 professionals, one who has work with autistic people for 30 years, says I am the most obsessive compulsive person they have ever encountered.
Before I was DX'd with Tourette's, I thought that the major attacks were caused by demons, or something. I have had seizures, but do not have a DX for Epilepsy. Still, the fact that I have not gotten an Epilepsy DX, although I have been tested for it, does not mean that I have not had seizures. My doctor witnessed a Tourette's attacks that he thought could have been seizures, he had to rule Epilepsy out before DXing Tourettes. There are other possible causes of the seizures that are related to the Tourette's that I have not been tested for. If I say I have seizures sometimes, but don't have Epilepsy, should I care if someone says "you can't have seizures without Epilepsy?" Haha, anyone who suggests that needs to do some research.
For a long time I suspected Savant Syndrome. I was even tested for it in various ways (different memory tests). I never assumed I was a savant, although I did look for people who might be able to help me understand it more, but was unable to find anyone. Instead I encountered people that said things like "savant is such a degrading term, it was originally used to describe idiots." These people have no clue what they are talking about. When I confronted my doctor about it he said "you are a genius, your abilities go way beyond that of a savant." I was humbled that he thought so highly of me, but he admitted to not knowing very much about Savant Syndrome. Upon further research, however, I am now told that I am not a genius, that there is a difference between genius and savant and I meet the criteria for savant more than I do genius. We have pages of papers here outlining the differences as they apply to me. So what. If someone came here and said I have counted 2 people that are savants and I wasn't included on the list, then would I care? NO! That person doesn't know me and has no logical basis to judge that based on what I try to communicate here. If they PMed me asking me to tell them about my savant DX, then I would probably tell them. Perhaps they have something in common with me that we can discuss. If I suspected they were trying to get me to prove myself, then I would tell them to leave me alone. I do not have to prove anything to anyone, nobody here does.
The whole point of this discussion, after getting past the troll issue, has been focused on some of the differences and similarities that Aspies have and why no one should be trying to convince anyone here that someone is, or is not an Aspie. We have shared experiences and taken comfort in knowing that there are others here that share some of the extreme difficulties that many of us have in common. I have read about people getting wrongly DX'd by professionals and I do not think that a self-DX is immune to such error either. Since no one here really knows what stimulates each others meltdowns, unless we communicate it, then no one really knows what the underlying cause for them is. This thread has prompted several people to discuss these things and I think that overall, with the exception of a few posts, this thread has been fine, so far. I hope that people here will see that what could have been a nasty thread ultimately turned out fairly well.
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The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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Prometheus
Mindless Philosopher
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 1506
Location: Through the plexiglass
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Frankly, I don't know if AS is possible with me or not.
All I know is a lot of sh*t on this site is virtually identical to what I went through, and I really connect to it.
The reason I am so unsure is that most of my dx'es already cover a great deal of the ground covered by AS and are physical in nature.
I am quite frusterated in social life and have little desire to further persue it, given the past record of it.
Like others have said, I don't meltdown in public, nor do I do the more hardcore stims at all, but I still ain't kosher enough to sastify most people.
/me shrugs
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well, whether you are, or not doesn't and shouldn't matter much as long as you are comfortable here.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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