 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Othila
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 117
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: | | They move like cogs of a gigantic machine whose final product is war, repression, lies (all the ad industry), marketing, research to produce an increasing quantity of crap (mobiles to be used as toys etc), pollutants, products to feign to reduce pollution (methanol cars). |
War, Commerce, and Materialism all bring out solidarity in fellow man. It's an us against the world mentality. Our country, our company, our home versus yours. Logically this doesn't make a lot of sense; because it skips the first question which is why do we have these countries, companies, families, exc in the first place. Once something exists people don't want to mess with the why question anymore even if what exists doesn't even work or has become obsolete. So in a long winded way to answer your question culturally at times I don't feel human because my perceptions on everything differs so greatly from the vast majority.
Case in point. I blame the current human mentality for being oblivious to their own social downfall on the distorted meaning of happiness. People think of happiness as a stopping point in their existence. Such as if I buy a house, get a job with benefits, get married, have children, exc. my life will be complete and I can sit back and enjoy the fruits of my labor. The problem is the list is demanding and feeds on itself to the point that soon someone's life becomes this wish list. With all human energy being spent on lists to meet a metaphysical state of happiness it's no wonder the planet's a mess and social science is eons behind natural science. |
|
| Back to top |
|
paolo
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1047
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
It is hard to explain that in this whole mess there are no evildoers. Economic growth, science technique. It’s all like a stampede: can a cow give a rational direction to the stampede? If I look at what happens, since the agrarian revolution, 4000 thousands years ago (4000 thousand years is a very very short time in evolutionary terms) I see every so called progress as a participation to a stampede. The problem here that this perspective is scarcely understood by political actors, leaders and also by the common people. So when you have well understood the inevitability of catastrophe, you are more alone than ever, like Cassandra. Probably being autistic has helped me to understand that history is some process in which you don’t have any role. And so you are even more alone, and it’s so difficult to communicate with people who are attached to a positive view. Lenin used to say that with development, the administration of things would be so simple that any cook (significantly he referred to a woman cook) could administer a country. How could he believe in such a nonsense?
By the way, is Condolezza good at cooking?
_________________
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
--Samuel Beckett |
|
| Back to top |
|
Othila
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 117
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Lenin used to say that with development, the administration of things would be so simple that any cook (significantly he referred to a woman cook) could administer a country. How could he believe in such a nonsense? |
I don't think the Russian Revolution was so much a mistake as that it happened too fast. Humans have short life spans so this "lets get it all done" attitude is going to lead to a very slipshod system. It's impossible to get anything done well in one's lifetime that is why history is so important, along with keeping a system in place that is independent of a particualar leader. You do have to give the former USSR credit for what they were able to accomplish in a half of century.
In Criminal Justice programs this happens a lot. There will be a program that produces great results but the moment that the leader of the program quits or retires the program loses it's effectiveness.
| Quote: | | By the way, is Condolezza good at cooking? |
Was it irony or just the simple fact that Rice like the cook you think Lenin mentioned was also a woman? Rice probably knows more about Russians than any other person in the President's Cabinent. She spent a number of years studying them. It is a good thing she is the Secretary of Defense right now given that Putin is getting all paranoid about the US planning to put missles near his turf. |
|
| Back to top |
|
KindaRetarded
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 156
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: we're broken people man |
|
|
We are not right, we are incorrect. Our minds can not calculate algorithms that the NT-model can. Our wires are crossed. This organic machine is defective.
So why are we here? what is our purpose? There is no answer and in that empty void where the meaning of life should be lies our birth right.
If humans knew the meaning of life, then perhaps we would know why we are broken, why our minds work differently but then perhaps we would know once and for all wether our lives have any meaning at all. But couldn't the same be said for the NT-model? Don't they struggle the same, save for a different context?
Our disabilities is like an error in the code, and I'm just curious to know, when will the error be deleted? When will we die off? I don't want to die. not yet. I want to have a family and raise children who won't experience what I've experienced. but isn't it genetic? if so, why would i curse my heirs with my twisted mind? I wouldn't. Thus leads me to a lonely life and death. My mind is my burden, and mine alone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
paolo
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1047
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes freaks, phocomelic people, dwarfs. All mistakes or imperfections in the transmission of instructions for building a “normal” creature. It’s the stochastic element guiding the perpetuation of the species and on the whole the method (if it can be called a method) works. Imperfect creatures die without reproducing themselves. But, if, as I believe, communication is mostly a technique, and artifice, much more a part of that awful machinery which places humans out of the laws of nature (what can one say of a species which already owns the means of total self annihilation?) it’s not in humanity that one can find salvation but in something else and, lacking any other way, in inaction, resistance, rejection of the ways and customs of humanity.
No cow can give a direction to a stampede.
Where do the boundaries of a species lie?
I hope this eulogy of a dog lover, published in the British daily Independent of today 10.31 will clarify some problems related to our antrhopocentic idea that communication and relationships are inestricably connected with language and words:
"Can you seriously refuse to grant a dog the complexities of emotional feelings? Many do, but I can't accept that. I can't believe that dogs don't have emotions and the only words I have to describe those emotions are ones I'd use to describe a fellow human.
<My dog Macy was "jealous" when another dog took one of her toys, "thoughtful" before trying anything unfamiliar, " joyous" when she met people or other dogs she knew, "contented" to be left alone, "purposeful" when investigating the natural world around her, "circumspect" in her approach to unknown people, " contained" in her display of emotions. Helen Mirren in The Queen reminded me of Macy – guarded, wary, restrained, but no less " human" for it.</p>
But there's a trickier emotion. Can you describe love? Can you put your own feeling of love for someone into precise words? Can you capture in a sentence or a paragraph that feeling of love so that someone reads and understands what you mean?
I know the look of love in my wife's eyes, but can I describe in words what that look is? (I know, too, her look of exasperation, or annoyance.) You can't dispassionately describe love from the outside. You have to feel it from the inside in order to know what it is, so you'll have to take my word for it. As trite as it may sound, I loved my dog and I know my dog loved me." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ahaseurus2000
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 373
Location: Taupo, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aspies are Human. Maybe another form of human but human anyway. Without aspies humans may not be quite as advanced scientifically as today. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Starr
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Sep 18, 2006
Posts: 4216
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | But there's a trickier emotion. Can you describe love? Can you put your own feeling of love for someone into precise words? Can you capture in a sentence or a paragraph that feeling of love so that someone reads and understands what you mean? |
It is so difficult to describe emotions and feelings in words. Thoughts have many words, even very abstract concepts can be described in words but love...there are no adequate words are there? Maybe an artist could paint it, or a dancer dance that emotion or a composer make music out of it, but to try and put in into words? I will try, with my own words (I will not resort to a dictionary - someone else's words) Love=a very positive feeling of affection and connectedness? See, it falls flat when feeling are put into words. Even poets, the experts at expressing the almost inexpressible, often resort to metaphor. Logos - Eros. Two very different gods.
The Triumph of Love (extract) by Friedrich Von Schiller
By love are blest the gods on high,
Frail man becomes a deity
When love to him is given;
'Tis love that makes the heavens shine
With hues more radiant, more devine,
And turns dull earth to heaven!
Schiller does it well, I think.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
crazyllama
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 162
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't want to belong to humankind. Does that count ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 1608
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Honestly, I see these claims of separation and often superiority (from both NT's and Aspergians) as only serving to create problems. The answer is no, Aspergians are human. Not another branch of humanity, not the next stage of evolution, not another form, just humans. There are differences between the Aspergian mind and the neurotypical mind, but the similarities far outnumber the differences. Especially considering the blurriness in defining a person with an ASD. What seperates an Aspergian from an eccentric introverted person who has narrow, intense interests? Does that mean I have Asperger's? Where does the spectrum end? Just the fact the the differences are often so vague leads me to believe that the notion of Aspergians not being "human" is rather silly. People are people with their individual strengths and weaknesses; neither are "better." |
|
| Back to top |
|
BazzaMcKenzie
Wild colonial man
Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Age: 48
Posts: 3666
Location: the Antipodes
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Starr wrote: | | Quote: | | .... Can you describe love? ... |
... Love=a very positive feeling of affection and connectedness? ... |
so much so that you put the other's well being above your own? |
|
| Back to top |
|
crazyllama
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 162
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Phagocyte wrote: | | Honestly, I see these claims of separation and often superiority (from both NT's and Aspergians) as only serving to create problems. The answer is no, Aspergians are human. Not another branch of humanity, not the next stage of evolution, not another form, just humans. There are differences between the Aspergian mind and the neurotypical mind, but the similarities far outnumber the differences. Especially considering the blurriness in defining a person with an ASD. What seperates an Aspergian from an eccentric introverted person who has narrow, intense interests? Does that mean I have Asperger's? Where does the spectrum end? Just the fact the the differences are often so vague leads me to believe that the notion of Aspergians not being "human" is rather silly. People are people with their individual strengths and weaknesses; neither are "better." |
Agree 100%.
Even though I feel as though I don't 'get along' with the rest of the human race, I am no less human or no greater of a human than anyone else. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Starr
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Sep 18, 2006
Posts: 4216
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BazzaMcKenzie wrote: | | Starr wrote: | | Quote: | | .... Can you describe love? ... |
... Love=a very positive feeling of affection and connectedness? ... |
so much so that you put the other's well being above your own? |
That is such a hard question isn't it? I would say...probably, sometimes. But to do it all the time would not be good for oneself...what do you think?
the whole subject is very interesting. I think I'll start a separate thread about it, if I may borrow Paolo's question. |
|
| Back to top |
|
paolo
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1047
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Animals of the same species, cats, dogs, elephants, zebras, are prepared to cope with the problems of their life span. They are wired for that, if we want to use this term. Humans are very different, not for their skin color, but for the extreme complicatedness of the life experiences they will have to face. For this thy must be trained, by their families, by schools and numberless institutions (West Point, Madrassas, Ivy League, Eton and what not). They all separate men in incalculable ways, they make them incommunicable isles. The only terms in which communication is still possible are the animal terms, sex, affection, territory, some fundamental inhibitions (not to kill your neighbor in the street in peace time). But are these inhibitions still holding now spontaneously? Isn’t artifice, training, drilling, police surveillance corrupting every relationship? May be God created all men equal, but they die apart and in loneliness. If anything, humans can (I don’t say that they do) communicate with some animals better that with their biological mates. So the compactness of humankind is largely a bureaucratic abstraction. When you are born you are registered, when you die you are registered again, like if you were property of the public administration. In the meantime everyone is a fortress of solitude and selfishness. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sorenzo
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 02, 2007
Posts: 44
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can't really bring myself to say I'm a part of the human species. I don't know many people with Asperger's, never have, so I've always felt various differences between me and the people around me. They've never seemed very rational to me, never seemed interested in such beautiful subjects as science and philosophy. They've always had social cliques that made no sense to me.
Genetically, if Asperger's is hereditary, does that not make it some kind of evolutionary step, anyway? Imagine a future where everyone skips social cliques, where most people have fields of excellence, where rationality and sensitivity was common in humans.
I think too much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 7053
Location: The Emerald Forest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sorenzo wrote: | I can't really bring myself to say I'm a part of the human species. I don't know many people with Asperger's, never have, so I've always felt various differences between me and the people around me. They've never seemed very rational to me, never seemed interested in such beautiful subjects as science and philosophy. They've always had social cliques that made no sense to me.
Genetically, if Asperger's is hereditary, does that not make it some kind of evolutionary step, anyway? Imagine a future where everyone skips social cliques, where most people have fields of excellence, where rationality and sensitivity was common in humans.
I think too much. |
that is only your opinion. I think you think just fine.
Merle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
