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vetivert
gagged, but never silent
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5768
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 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:23 am Post subject: |
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the square root of -1?
there's got to be something meaningful in there, somewhere...  |
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adversarial
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I was prepared to give credence to the OP because the internet is liberally scattered with all manner of strange rantings and half-baked 'pseudo-science' 'theories'.
Perhaps I was softened up to some extent by the ASPartners site, where there are angry posters diagnosing entire neighbourhoods, including other people's children.
Over-generalise on a set of behaviours, stick a label on it, and it can be used as a stick with which to beat someone.
Even the 'scary' labels such as 'schizophrenic' or 'psychopath', that have been appropriated by Hollywood and Suspense writers, were never meant as value judgements in and of themselves. They just got used that way, because they became convenient labels.
It also has to be said that popular perceptions of what these labels actually mean are wildly divergent from how the terms are used in a clinical setting. There is a vast difference between the colloquial and the clinical.
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"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw (Taken from someone on comp.programming) |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
Now, since you spotted the troll so well, I'll admit to my dirty little secret: You're right! I fabricated this whole article and organization whole cloth. The Female Liberation Front is a stereotypically extremist feminist organization with a patently anti-male agenda, playing loose with scientific theories to support their worldview. In this case, I used Simon Baron-Cohen's systemizing (male) brain theory as the base. I then took the stereotypical bad guy (the psychopath) and actually described him instead.
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So, you are saying that you are not only a troll, but a liar as well. You not only lied about the story, but you lied when you said your source is offline. You undermine the personal security that honest people have on this site. Now that you have admitted to your own ignorant behaviour it would be the most foolish of fools to ever believe anything you ever say again. You are a liar. If you will lie about one thing, you will lie about anything. You have lied to all of WP and that is not what this place is about.
There have been times when certain things you have done made me feel like I do not want to be here anymore, but now I see. I am not the one that doesn't belong here. You are. You owe everyone an apology and you if you can't be honest (which probably won't matter anymore, once you have lied nothing you say will be believable anymore) then you should find some other site to stir up trouble on. Just my opinion.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| DeepThought wrote: | | So, you are saying that you are not only a troll, but a liar as well. You not only lied about the story, but you lied when you said your source is offline. You undermine the personal security that honest people have on this site. Now that you have admitted to your own ignorant behaviour it would be the most foolish of fools to ever believe anything you ever say again. You are a liar. If you will lie about one thing, you will lie about anything. You have lied to all of WP and that is not what this place is about. |
A joke is not a lie. It was meant for fun and for arousing discussion. A lie is meant to deceive for personal gain.
| DeepThought wrote: | | There have been times when certain things you have done made me feel like I do not want to be here anymore, but now I see. I am not the one that doesn't belong here. You are. You owe everyone an apology and you if you can't be honest (which probably won't matter anymore, once you have lied nothing you say will be believable anymore) then you should find some other site to stir up trouble on. Just my opinion. |
Non sequitur. Just about everyone has lied before; that does not mean you can trust no one. I owe no one an apology for exercising my creativity. In all honesty, you are upset too easily. This is just the Internet, not the be all and end all of existence. |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | In all honesty, you are upset too easily. |
Not to infer anything here, but that's what most NTs say to me when they don't understand the concept of social and emotional retadation.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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DeepThought
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 574
Location: A chair in the USA.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | A lie is meant to deceive for personal gain.
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A lie is ANYTHING other than the truth:
Lie:
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they called me,
Too old for a sailin', too young for the sea;
Set sail for the sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be. |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| DeepThought wrote: | A lie is ANYTHING other than the truth:
Lie:
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression. |
A lie is a matter of will; if my intention was to lie, I have lied. A person can tell the objective truth but be lying because they believed that what they were telling was false. Moreover, it is socially acceptable to say some things that are untrue as entertainment. Movies and most novels are not literally true; they require the audience or reader to suspend reality. Actors, directors, authors, and playwrights are not considered to be liars(unless it's for something else). Entertainers usually (but not always) expect the audience/reader/viewer to realize the story is not literally true.
A lie is usually told to meet one's own goals that could not be met through honesty. If a person does not have the education and experience for a job but falsifies their résumé and says untrue things to the interviewer, that is lying. A white lie, of course, is the more socially acceptable form of lying: If a person dislikes, for example, someone's cookies, they might lie and say that they did enjoy the cookies because the greater wrong, in this case, would be to cause the other person emotional dispondancy. |
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eamonn
not viable
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Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 2296
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe you should post these things in the music and writings section instead of having people believe it. |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| eamonn wrote: | | Maybe you should post these things in the music and writings section instead of having people believe it. |
Then there's no chance for Socratic irony. |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: ... |
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I would rather you be the type of troll who says "YOU SUCK!!!" or something. There is no point to prove if you make people ANGRY when doing it. Then the entire point is missed. And that's not our fault but yours for the inability to predict it. But you KEEP doing it, over and over again... Grrrrrr. 
And by the way, a "joke" takes two people. If one of them isn't aware that it's a joke, it ISN'T a joke.
Stop trolling! It'll only make people dislike you for it. Plus, half of your posts are troll posts at least (or those posts which you lovingly refer to as "jokes" or "half-serious, half-joking").
And the other half are your "adore me, talk about me" posts or the ones where you're showing off how much "knowledge" you have after reading a couple articles on Wikipedia.
I wish we could bring back the IGNORE BUTTON...
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Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: | | Stop trolling! It'll only make people dislike you for it. Plus, half of your posts are troll posts at least (or those posts which you lovingly refer to as "jokes" or "half-serious, half-joking"). |
It takes the monotony out of my day. I'd describe my life as a flat line with occasional tiny blips of being interested. Trolling helps me make a few blips.
| Sophist wrote: | | And the other half are your "adore me, talk about me" posts |
After Sarcastic_Name told me in a PM on IRC that I was not saying enough about myself and my issues involving AS—just asking people a bunch of questions and writing polls—I decided to to make more posts describing my personal situations to see how common they are to other aspies and how other aspies dealt with them. I'm not really expecting people to talk exclusively about my situation but more theirs and their speculation about causes and solutions.
| Sophist wrote: | | or the ones where you're showing off how much "knowledge" you have after reading a couple articles on Wikipedia. |
I enjoy reading Wikipedia very much. Why should I make posts about something I have zero interest in or knowledge of? That makes no sense. The concept of showing off doesn't occur to me.
I am at a loss to understand why you would assume I'm trying to get people to fawn over me and be in awe of my knowledge. I enjoy discussing ideas, the Enlightenment ideal; and I'm sure many other aspies share this view. I do sometimes like to use less orthodox methods of describing my views, but everyone has their own way. |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: ... |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | Sophist wrote: | | Stop trolling! It'll only make people dislike you for it. Plus, half of your posts are troll posts at least (or those posts which you lovingly refer to as "jokes" or "half-serious, half-joking"). |
It takes the monotony out of my day. I'd describe my life as a flat line with occasional tiny blips of being interested. Trolling helps me make a few blips. |
Well, I'm glad we can help entertain you.
Suggestion: Find something else to occupy your time.
And glad to see you have an excuse for everything. 
Question: Have you been getting an overwhelmingly positive response from trolling-- not counting your own reactions? How many people have made negative comments about it so far?
_________________
Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:01 am Post subject: ... |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | I am at a loss to understand why you would assume I'm trying to get people to fawn over me and be in awe of my knowledge. I enjoy discussing ideas, the Enlightenment ideal; and I'm sure many other aspies share this view. I do sometimes like to use less orthodox methods of describing my views, but everyone has their own way. |
In addition you spout the DSM and ICD right and left as if all answers lie within them. You use them constantly and haphazardly. And I'm sure I'm being hypocrytical when I say that. But I wish the DSM and ICD were never allowed to be purchased by the public, because there was a time when they were not available to the lay person for those very reasons.
Yes, call me a hypocrite if you like because I make reference to it, too. But is not a book to live by nor to back up all arguments. It has too many flaws to mention and should be read by skeptical eyes and backed up by other materials.
It's just... disrespectful of the people that are represented by that book, to use it right and left as though it's some toy. Hypocrite, yes, yes, I know. Hypocrite. I'm a hypocrite. So there.
_________________
Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3601
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sophist wrote: | | In addition you spout the DSM and ICD right and left as if all answers lie within them. You use them constantly and haphazardly. And I'm sure I'm being hypocrytical when I say that. But I wish the DSM and ICD were never allowed to be purchased by the public, because there was a time when they were not available to the lay person for those very reasons. |
I sometimes use psychiatric diagnoses jokingly to show how easily the concepts can be extended into outer space. For example, I "diagnosed" my college's administrative bureaucracy with obsessive-compulsive (anakastic) personality disorder.
| Sophist wrote: | | Yes, call me a hypocrite if you like because I make reference to it, too. But is not a book to live by nor to back up all arguments. It has too many flaws to mention and should be read by skeptical eyes and backed up by other materials. |
You suggested it; so I won't deny it; but I won't affirm it, either. Honestly, whether you are a hypocrite or not doesn't matter much to me.
| Sophist wrote: | | It's just... disrespectful of the people that are represented by that book, to use it right and left as though it's some toy. Hypocrite, yes, yes, I know. Hypocrite. I'm a hypocrite. So there. |
The point is the DSM-IV-TR and Chapter V of the ICD-10 use inherently subjective criteria. For example, look at histrionic personality disorder. That could describe just about any sociable, good-looking woman. Narcissistic personality disorder easily describes a good chunk of politicians. Et cetera et cetera ad infinitum. |
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Sophist
Professor of Pedantry
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6170
Location: St. Louie
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: ... |
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By God, you did it again!
*staring in disbelief that the point was utterly lost* 
_________________
Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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