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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4408
Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: The Remedial Effect (Low Expectations at School) |
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I remember being at school and having a hard time following the work in the early years. In particular, I seemed to do a lot of things later than the other kids. (Reading, Maths etc...)
There weren't special ed classes at my primary school.
Little by little I caught up until my English and Math were pretty much middle of the class by 4th Grade.
I changed schools in 5th grade and they immediately seized upon my deafness as "oh, he's deaf, so he must be dumb as well" and put me in remedial classes. I did remedial English, maths etc.. (They didn't know I was aspie, but did know that I was very deaf).
It was relaxing... but after a while, I'd let my talents show and they'd move me back into the mainstream classes.
Until the next year... when it repeated all over again.
I'm finding that my son (7) is going through the same thing. Last week he brought home a spelling list of lengthy words to learn. He learned them all within the week. This week, he's been grabbed by special ed, had his harder words taken off him and reduced to words he was supposed to be doing at the beginning of last year.
I'm not expecting him to over-achieve and I'm not a pushy parent but I think he should be given a chance to learn what the other kids are learning - especially since he's handling it ok at the moment.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Did you think it was cause for concern?
What did you do about it?
Thanks.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2540
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, just being in a public school has the remedial effect on my son. He is in 2nd grade (full inclusion) and his pullout services are for social skills. But the district has very low expectations. So, certain subjects are really boring and repetitive. Math is taught in such a backward way. Sometimes he "forgets" how to do it because he must be "checking out" after the gazillionth ditto.
In fact, his pullout services occur when the other students are "catching up" on their academics. There is such an emphasis on test-taking here that they are just drilling these kids to know this really boring stuff. But they fail to realize that you have to be engaged in the subject to remember what you've learned. |
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schleppenheimer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 1173
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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We've had the same problem to some degree. And we also have the same problem as KimJ, where the kids here spend so much time preparing for standardized tests that they don't really LEARN anything.
We've had to become very, very diligent in knowing what is going on at school. They've been putting our son in special ed throughout the elementary years, and he may very well have needed that to some degree. But we've pulled him out of those special need classes more and more. He's finally telling us what's going on at school, and he says he's bored by English class -- it's just too easy -- and sure enough, that's the last special ed class. That one is going NEXT year -- after that, no more special ed.
He also was leaving the mainstream class to take tests in the special ed director's room (in elementary school). We felt that was too stigmatizing, so we demanded that he take tests in the regular class like everyone else. Yes, he's slower on tests, but amazingly enough, he finishes them in class this year. Funny how that works. You need to expect more sometimes -- and often, even though these kids have different needs, they still can live up to those expectations.
What has to be determined is whether the school personnel are doing things for the child's benefit, or for the school personnel's benefit. I totally can understand changing curriculum to make it so that a child can be successful, especially if the work is unnecessarily long or repetitious, but if they are changing curriculum because it takes a little longer for a child to complete, that's ridiculous.
We also had the teachers cut spelling lists down to half. Funny thing, he's terrific at spelling, and he COULD finish a spelling test in the time alloted. The teachers were OVER-compensating for his diagnosis. Sometimes (not always) the teachers don't really have a clue about Aspergers. There are other times when the teachers understand it, but the school administrators don't, and they are the ones who determine these silly adjustments in the curriculum. We cannot allow school personnel to make judgement calls on our children's education when they don't really understand the needs.
Kris |
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Tortuga
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 597
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I feel like public school was detrimental in our case, because of the special ed services. They don't work towards getting a kid up to grade level when they are in special ed.
This has nothing to do with special ed at school, but I have a funny story that made me re-think my own expectations for my son. I taught him to play chess. I was letting him win every time, giving him a chance to learn the moves. He seemed to struggle through the game. One day we were pressed for time and I said it would be a chess game without mercy. I explained that I would not let him win or let him undo moves. I told him that I was going to win. He was okay with those terms and we started to play. HE BEAT ME!!!! he won fair and square. He was 8 at the time. He adjusted his game play to the necessary level to win. It was an amazing thing. |
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Smelena
Cure Neurotypicals Now!
Joined: Apr 02, 2007
Posts: 2150
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Has he had an IQ test? At least that way you can wave the test results under their nose and say, 'See, he's smart. Let him do the same work as the others.'
My 7 year old's reading was lagging behind. My husband was very dilligant in reading with him every night last year and his reading caught up to average for his age.
Helen
_________________
To see my family and my advocacy efforts: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JR03uSFQf6Y and http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZBxFYFvuA |
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greendeltatke
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Could it be that the teacher has decided your kid seems anxious or stressed and is trying to compensate by making his workload easier? |
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Mum2ASDboy
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 562
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well I know if work is too easy for Damo he gets frustrated and says (well yelss more like it) "I KNOW THIS" and the homework gets thrown across the room.
At the end of last year he was reading level 2/3 and is now back on level 1.
I can't wait till I have the 'goal setting' meeting with his teacher in a few weeks time  |
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ster
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: new england
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| my husband had this happen to him when he was growing up, but haven't experienced it with any of my kids |
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4408
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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We had our meeting with the teacher and special ed yesterday afternoon.
They were both very nice and, I think, an improvement on last year.
Both seemed interested in feedback but we couldn't get a word in edgewise, they were pretty straight about being "new to the school" and "not being quite sure what to do with our son". I'm not so worried by their level of expertise since everyone who wants to learn, can learn. They seem to be trying hard.
Apparently our son got a bit excited after having done his "news" presentation yesterday and couldn't settle. The teacher couldn't sort the class out. They didn't want to single him out, so they started moving kids who were laughing at his antics - telling them that they're not helping.
We were told that next time he's out of the class for special ed, the teacher will talk to the class to tell them that they're not helping when they laugh at his behavior. Is it just me or does anyone else think this might be setting him up for later discrimination/bullying?
I mentioned meltdowns - mainly to see if they had a strategy. The teacher shot me a panicked look and said what should I do? I suggested that he'd be best isolated but the teacher told me that it wasn't possible - does anyone have any feedback on what other teachers in primary schools do if a meltdown occurs in a classroom?
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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ster
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: new england
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| i think the teacher's hearts are in the right place~they're right, it doesn't help for the kids to laugh.....but focusing the issue on your son instead of on the other individual children's responses is not helpful......IMO, it would be best to talk to the children as a group with your son in the room. all of the children should be told of the teacher's expectations for "proper behavior". all of the children should be reminded of consequences for inappropriate behavior . |
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4408
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Update: We've finally moved house - yay!
anyway, I'm back at work and sore from lifting stuff.
When we were talking to the teachers I said that I was suspicious of whether or not my son was "powered by Ritalin" at the time.
lo and behold, on the weekend after the move, we found the entire tray of the week's tablets in his schoolbag completely untouched.
Weird because this classmate girl (who is obviously a little keen on him), was taking my son out of class every lunchtime to get his tablet from the office. They never mentioned that there were no tablets - unless he's been having someone elses.
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Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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KimJ
Legend in my own mind
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 2540
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| that's not something to fool around with. I'd be getting angry with whomever is in charge of dispensing the pills. That's like when I find Pop's homework in his backpack, not turned in when I've had full conversations with the special ed teacher about getting him to turn it in. |
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 40
Posts: 4408
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think the teachers are in shock - they've already pledged to keep a close eye on things.
I'm sure the new crew have their hearts in the right places, but they seem very "green" (inexperienced).
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3194
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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My son's work is never cut unless there is a request by him or us. The school has left that in our control, when to say, "this is too much." I am really happy with it that way; my son wants to be part of the class, he wants to learn. He simply wants to be accommodated when he NEEDS to be accommodated. Mostly accommodations are in volume, not skill level. For example, if he cuts his math practice homework in half, that is fine. Or if he dictates his papers to me instead of writing them himself, that is fine, also (he has horrible motor skill issues).
I actually would like him to get a simpler spelling list, lol, because then he might actually get a decent spelling grade. But, you know, it's better that he isn't given that luxury. He is well aware this way of where his weakness lies and, since it doesn't seem to stress or frustrate him, it's fine. He knows he will need to find "work arounds" for spelling, probably all his life, and he already does that in many ways.
Our school does have a place my son can go when he feels himself heading for a meltdown, assuming it isn't already in use. Every 3 classrooms or so connects via an anti-room, and he has permission to escape there whenever he wants to. He actually hasn't taken that option in years, since he has gotten so much better at mitigating potential triggers.
I think we mostly need to keep an open, ongoing conversation with all the teachers in our children's lives. Education is a team effort.
Hopefully things will work out well with this new special education team you have. It seems to really be a crap shoot how well schools and professionals understand our kids. I feel I have been very lucky with it. |
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