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Smelena Cure Neurotypicals Now!


Joined: Apr 02, 2007 Posts: 2125 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Visual System in Autism |
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Hello,
I'm on a mailing list for a parent support group. The following came in an e-mail.
I don't know whether it's accurate or not. I thought I'd ask the real experts - WrongPlanet members - for an opinion.
So what does everyone think?
I was given a reference for Dr Mary Megson, US Developmental Paediatrician.
She has the following to suggest regarding the Visual System of Children with Autism: http://www.megson.com/readings/BiologicalBasis.pdf
VISUAL SYSTEM
Probably one of the most profound things I have discovered is how the children “see” their world. Once you understand it, then you begin to realize that the way the children look at you and the world around them makes perfect sense, given the way their eyes function. These children live in a “magic-eye puzzle:” you’ve probably seen these puzzles at the mall. You stare at a cluster of shapes and colors, and eventually an image will pop out. These children, because of the blocked pathway affecting their vision, can’t see like most people do. The blocked pathway has caused the rods in their eyes to not function correctly. They must compensate for the rod dysfuction the best way they can. They “see” the world around them as though it’s in a 3-D box. They have such a limited visual field that everything that doesn’t fit in their box blurs and is perceived as color and shape alone. And, the most incredible thing is that they actually have to piece together each “box” that they see in order to see a complete shape. So, in order to live and perceive the world outside of their limited “box,” they have to organize it according to color and shape. That’s why the children “melt down” when objects are moved or when you clean up their lines or piles of toys sorted by color. They have to work so hard to perceive their world that it frightens and overwhelms them when the world as they are able to see it changes. It also explains why the children are known to organize things so carefully. It’s the only way they can “see” their world. This is a visual perception problem! When you say, “look at me, look at me,” they really are. But they have to look at you sideways. They are turning their eye so that the light reflected from your face lands on the edge of the fovea or the lateral retina where they have some rod function. The fovea is the area in the back of the eye where the cones are closest together. That’s the only way they can “see” you. When you force their pupil to appear to focus on you, you are actually forcing them to look away from you because their “best vision” is off to one side. On the fish liver oil, their rod function improves. One of the first effects we see is the disappearance of the “sideways glance” that the children are known for. For too many years, parents have been told that there were psychological reasons for why their children wouldn’t look at them. The old theory of a cold, unloving parent was probably developed due to this observation. But the truth is, the sideways glance is a biological adaptation, given how their vision pathway has been blocked. The body always tries to adapt the best way it can. So, this way of looking at things is “normal” for the child with autism. As rod function improves, they look right at you and can really see you! They move back from and become less interested in TV and videos. Until “the box” expands, the only place they always hear the right language for what they are looking at is to set “the box” (i.e. TV, video, computer, Lovas/ABA therapy program). As vision improves, their ability to see and hear the right language for what they are looking at improves. Donna Williams, an autistic adult, describes this as “thinking in monochannel.” If what you are hearing is not related to what is clearly seen (i.e. in the box), only one input can be processed at a time. They can listen or they can look, but only one at a time. They can’t do both. _________________ To see my family and my advocacy efforts: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=JR03uSFQf6Y and http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZBxFYFvuA |
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Chadk Yellow-bellied Woodpecker


Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Age: 17 Posts: 66
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Never heard of that.
Maybe its true for infantile autists. But not for me as an aspie. |
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Danielismyname something something

Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 5375
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm the king of the "sideways glance".
It's logical, even for someone who's developed; we focus and fixate on parts of things, and when I see something, I see pieces, not a whole.
When I see a door, I see each part, and then I need to put it together with my eyes to understand it; the timber, the hinges, the screws, and each time I see a door, I do this.
We have visual and auditory disturbances, so yeah, it's probably correct for people with certain types of autism (lower down on the spectrum).
I still line things up, and I still like everything to be where I left it; the more parts to an environment, the more overwhelmed I become (visual and audible).
When I talk, I have to look away; when I listen, I can sometimes look at people, especially if I'm used to their appearance, i.e., how their face fits together.
My GP recommended fish oil to me, so I guess this is why she did such. |
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zen_mistress Phoenix


Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Age: 30 Posts: 887 Location: aotearoa
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I find that I find it hard to keep eye contact because it demands me to look at 2 eyes at once and keep my focus on an area of about 10-12 centimetres... I prefer to focus on a small point, so I dont like to look at peoples eyes for very long.
Also, when I am looking at a person's eyes Im looking at the colour, mascara, eyelashes, eyelids... Im not listening to what they are saying. So that is another reason why I dont use a lot of eye contact in conversation. For that period Im looking into a person's eyes, Im not actually listening. _________________
I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.
~ Albert Einstein |
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Fuzzy Ack! Thbbbt!

Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 1772 Location: Alberta Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I agree with zen_mistress. One thing at a time, and I can agree that there is some assemblage that has to happen. Some of its pretty automatic.
For example, today my dad was in his garage and hanging/standing against shelves looking for something. I stepped in looking for him and while I could hear the noise, it took me a bit to render him against the cluttered shelves. His posture didnt match a typical pose and I couldnt pick out his form. |
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Danielismyname something something

Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 5375
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Addendum: I'd say it's correct for everyone with an ASD that has problems with verbal and nonverbal cues, also anyone who played with toys "incorrectly".
The direct cause may be incorrect, as I remember the information from the rods is processed in parts of the brain too, so the "blockage" may be anywhere in the visual sensory system. Nevertheless, the explanation for the effect sounds logical and correct, i.e., one thing at a time. |
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victorvndoom Deinonychus


Joined: Mar 20, 2008 Age: 40 Posts: 309 Location: europe: belgium
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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i used loads of images in my mind on my daily walks on the playgrounds when i was little . Images were based on things that happened on tv so i made my own 'ideas' or imagination
dont know if it is this what the TW (topic writer) means
now i dont use it anymore because i use internet to fullfill it _________________ sorry for been rude sometimes or emotionless or hurting feelings ; i got as for something
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2ukenkerl Phoenix


Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 4374
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| I don't remember my eyes EVER functioning differently, outside of the fact I used to have MORE detail. When I was VERY young, I was looking at color codes on various components(resistors, etc...), and writing on ICs(They used to be smaller, and the writing was FAR from clear) So I have a good idea how my vision was in good detail. I don't ever remember cocking my head like that. |
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Irisrises Raven


Joined: Oct 10, 2007 Posts: 104
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: |
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It's much too specific to be true for everyone, but could be useful as something for people to keep in mind.
I compute things very, very quickly. It's not much of an issue unless I'm overwhelmed on every level at the same time, and even then, I decide what to focus on, and concentrate on it. |
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Elovic Butterfly


Joined: Aug 12, 2007 Posts: 15
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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For me it's a lot like that, I've always had great problems with seeing and have had to teach myself to see through memory and systems. Still I have good days and bad days, and when I work too much I start loosing my eye sight, temporarily. For example if I draw too much I start losing all depth vision, it's like I have to choose between depth and the ability to draw.
I've trained myself to look people in the eye, and no one can notice that I don't like it, but when you do it the whole world really melts away and only the eyes remain. It really hurts and is very disconcerting.
So maybe for the first time I've got a clue as to why it is this way - thank you! I've forwarded the article to my doctor. _________________ I will participate in purple shadows afterwards. |
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silentchaos Toucan


Joined: Mar 08, 2008 Posts: 250
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I experience something similar to Elovic, i can take in many things at once but sometimes only at certain depths of field. It is comparable to an SLR camera, if i want to see a lot quickly then i have to give up seeing the background and what much of it means. If i focus on one thing in depth then it will make sense but i will not see anything else. If i try to do both i get a headache,feel nauseous,tired,scared, if i keep trying for too long i essentially shut down. The same thing happens in class, if i listen intently and watch the lecturer i will zone out,get anxious, i pretty much wont remember anything from the class. So when i am driving or in class i do NOT pay attention, it seems crazy but it works. Whenever i drive i need loud music to shut everything else out. If i do this and do not really think about what i am doing or seeing i drive great. You would think i would be a total road hazard but i am actually the best driver in my family, i have never had an accident, i get complemented on my driving constantly,i don't speed much at all and tend to get places quickly(when i need to). If i try to focus on driving it makes me a mental wreck but if i don't then i find driving to be very relaxing, i drive for hours and hours when i am stressed. It is the same way with class, as long as i don't focus on the lecture and just draw,read,make lists, or whatever it isn't stressful at all and i pickup on more of the info than most people. I do get yelled at occasionally for reading a book from a different subject during every lecture but that is fine by me.
Is this the case with anyone else? Does your 'subconscious' work better than your 'conscious' for certain sensory oriented activities? |
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Aspie_Chav Phoenix


Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Age: 35 Posts: 2042 Location: Croydon
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have to make a consious effert to make eye contact. And my eyes don't focus well |
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Sophist Professor of Pedantry


Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 6170 Location: St. Louie
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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That sounds more like agnosias that occur with autism. But not all autistics are agnosiac.
For myself, I find I actually ignore my peripheral quite a bit, moreso than most people. My focal area is mainly what gets processed and I frequently block out processing of anything beyond the foveal area.
Although, aside from natural inclination, much of that is brought about because I wore glasses from age 10 onwards and with glasses and extreme short-sightedness, the brain learns to ignore the peripheral because it's just a big blur. _________________ Autism Speaks: The Walmart of the 501c's.
GESTALT: An Autism and Psychology Discussion Forum
http://asdgestalt.com
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Elovic Butterfly


Joined: Aug 12, 2007 Posts: 15
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well I can't drive, I can barely ride a bike, I can't catch balls or jump over things, I hardly see any movement or depth or size even on a good day. I always have to choose between being active - like talking, reacting etc - or passive and seeing. If I'm with a friend for instance I shut off most of my eye sight, I only have a basic, orienting eye sight left, and if I'm alone out walking I shut off all active reactions on stuff and focus on seeing. I can also only focus with one eye at the time, the other is passive and only used for periferic vision, so I've divided my eyes into one looking far-eye and one looking-close eye, so I'll use them equally much, otherwise the unused or less used eye goes blind. So in my case it's probably not agnosias, but something I was born with. In 2004 I saw my whole body at once for a second or so and 2007 I experienced depth for the first time, like actually seeing it, so it's in constant development. But I have bad periods as well. It's very confusing and adds to the living inside a bubble experience. _________________ I will participate in purple shadows afterwards. |
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