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Sora
Illogical, Irrational
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2422
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Effects of a real 'cure'? |
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This is an article of The Guardian from March 29th, 2001, called:
'Shopping for humans'
(I suggest reading the whole article)
| Quote: | The real threat that human cloning represents is one that, as far as I know, is never talked about by scientists, ethicists, biotech entrepreneurs, or politicians. In a society where more and more people clone and eventually customise their genotype to design specifications and engineering standards, how are we likely to regard the child who isn't cloned or customised? What about the child who is born with a "disability"? Will the rest of society view that child with tolerance or come to see the child as an error in the genetic code - in short a defective product? Indeed, future generations might become far less tolerant of those who are not engineered and who deviate from the genetic standards and norms adhered to in the "best practices" of the bioindustrial marketplace. If that were to happen, we might lose the most precious gift of all, the human capacity to empathise with each other. When we empathise with another human being, it's because we feel and experience their vulnerability, their frailties and suffering, and their unique struggle to claim their humanity. But, in a world that comes to expect perfection in its offspring, can empathy really survive?
Human cloning represents the ultimate Faustian bargain. In our desire to become the architects of our own evolution, we risk the very real possibility of losing our humanity. |
We had to read this in class and concluded that the man has a point. That's a likely possibility.
What I find to be worth considering though:
everybody else only connected this article to a far away future. Empathy and understanding towards people from today who are somehow different were not discussed even once.
It would have surprised me though. Pointing the finger to others, even towards the unknown future, is always easier than admitting that this issue described in this very article is a real problem that has its root right here and now. In today.
I cannot understand why people would think that this ignorant attitude would suddenly appear out of nothing in 50 or 200 years. It's a topic that is worth discussing here and now, as we of today have to live with the responsibility of what will happen tomorrow.
Anyway, I think it's still a good article.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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Apuleyo
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 194
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I believe that is unlikely. Engineered humans should be more emphatic and tolerant, because these positive attitudes are the ones that can make Earth a better place.
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2678
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not good science.
It mixes various things under cloning. One is selection, starting a dozen, screening, and picking the best two children to bring to term. It is a way to avoid expressed recesives for a generation, but they are still there.
A clone is a cell from one creature grown again, and the same problems, as even clones have varaiation. Plant a dozen seeds, thin to the strongest three.
The fastest growing may not be the best fruit producers, as many of our current crops show, high yield and a standard profuct, but lacking in taste, smell, texture.
We are a long way from fixing DNA, it seems some is just filler, and what will get expressed, is still beyond guess.
We can splice in other genes, but the results are iffy. Known results in one generation, but no idea of long term effects.
Nature has a system, humans have been throuigh several genetic bottlenecks, the whole species dropping to 5000, and some lines, Europeans, can be traced to a group of less than a hundred.
Those who survived times that killed off most of their species were not the more emphatic and tolerant, they were most likely the ones who first turned cannibal. Natural slection favors survivors.
Some things may be common because of survival. When the Black Death killed so many in Europe, reclusive OCD types, who kept a clean house, and avoided humans, would have survived better than those who mixed with the world. Those who showed empathy and went to help the sick, died.
We are tested in several directions, those who are just like everyone else prosper at times, and are in uniform marching to the front with everyone else at other times. It leaves the village idiot to reproduce.
A University Anthropology professor told me the Black Death favored a blood type, when they were dead, it stopped, when more were born, becme common, the Black Death returned. Less people died in each wave, often half of a house, with the other half untouched. In the end, some blood types became rare in Europe, and so did the Black Death.
Religion and Nationalism also seems to have extirminated it's true believers.
Grain has been selected for high yield, and food value has been dropping. with all production narrowed to one line, when it's version of the Black Death comes, all will die. Those that feed on the grain will die, and it will favor some other group.
The reason we have the humans we do is because they are what passed all the tests. Religion would select for church going, government for tax payers who will die in their wars, but cultures who produced many mighty warriors, found they killed their own people, and each other.
Up to 1850 brute force prevailed. Since then there has been a selection for intelligence, the industrial era, then Science, Technology, and now we have Aspies like Australia has rabbits. Mighty warriors of intellect also have unwanted side effects, but with mono cropping, all that exists is the current gene pool.
The only answer is to breed and treat for size. If humans, who have killed off the predators, were two foot tall, it would solve all of our food and space problems. They might have smaller brains, but they would not know. one fruit tree could feed a village. We could also reap great savings if they were given the genes for fur.
Some modification so they could feed directly on grass, and we would have solved most of the problems we can see now.
I notice this article was written in 2001, Windows 2000 was the highest technology. I favor sticking with the humans we have till the bugs are worked out of Vista. |
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ToadOfSteel
Extremist Moderate
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 1972
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Effects of a real 'cure'? |
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| the article wrote: |
Human cloning represents the ultimate Faustian bargain. In our desire to become the architects of our own evolution, we risk the very real possibility of losing our humanity. |
Isn't that what hitler wanted to do? become the architecht of human evolution through his whole aryan race ideology? And now look: history regards hitler as an inhuman monster, regardless of what he actually felt...
No calling godwin on my post... |
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Zara
Master of Unlocking
Joined: Jun 24, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 1430
Location: Deep Dungeon, VA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think actual cloning and picking and choosing traits is going to be a big thing for some time. That's a lot of work to do and the technology just isn't there to do it well yet. Maybe by the time I die in my geezer years it'll happen and be commonplace.
What you're more likely to see in the near future is genetic screening for traits and conditions. Those that are favored will live, those that are not will be aborted. Once autism/aspergers is identified genetically, guess where it'll end up? |
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MJIthewriter
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: |
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My fear with the efforts to "cure" autism and treat like illnesses to remove "odd one out" so "everything is in moderation" that the odd ones will be increasingly less and less odd. Anyone ever get over zelous pruning a bush? Okay I have. 
In the end we get a rather boring society of people who are all calm, even tempered, hard wokers and easy to manipulate...
Anyone ever read The Giver?
I fear and dread we are heading that way.  |
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LadyM
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| MJIthewriter wrote: | Anyone ever read The Giver?
I fear and dread we are heading that way. |
Sometimes I wish parts of The Giver would come true, like being assigned a job. I never have a clue about what I should do with my life. It would be nice to just be given a job I was good at and asked to do it.  |
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MJIthewriter
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| LadyM wrote: | | MJIthewriter wrote: | Anyone ever read The Giver?
I fear and dread we are heading that way. |
Sometimes I wish parts of The Giver would come true, like being assigned a job. I never have a clue about what I should do with my life. It would be nice to just be given a job I was good at and asked to do it. |
Being an artist I wouldn't like to give up the ability to see color. |
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