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Now they're coming for our computers
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LoveableNerd
Velociraptor
Velociraptor


Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Posts: 439
Location: Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Now they're coming for our computers Reply with quote

H.R. 4279: AKA: Legalizing the seizure of your computer act

The criminals in the federal government are now trying to legalize the seizure of computers and other property under the guise of strengthening intellectual property laws..

HR 4279 or the Prioritizing Resources and Organization for Intellectual Property Act of 2008 which was recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives, will give the government draconian powers to do just this. This legislation gives the government the power to seize property that facilitates the violation of intellectual property laws. The legislation also mandates the formation of a formal Intellectual Property Enforcement Division within the office of the Deputy Attorney General to enforce this madness. In addition, a new office called the Office of the United States Intellectual Property Enforcement Representative is created within the Executive Office of the President. If you boil it down to brass tax, this legislation allows the U.S. government to lawfully seize your computer if it has one unauthorized mp3 file on its hard drive. It also provides the authorization for the creation of offices within the executive branch to enforce a law that is impossible to enforce..

Below is taken from section 202 of HR 4279 that gives the federal government the authorization to seize property that may have been used to facilitate an intellectual property violation. The language in this section indicates that a violation would include downloading a single unauthorized mp3 file on to a computer..

d) Unauthorized Recording of Motion Pictures- Section 2319B(b) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

..(b) Forfeiture and Destruction; Restitution-

..(1) CIVIL FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS- (A) The following property is subject to forfeiture to the United States:

..(i) Any copies of a motion picture or other audiovisual work protected under title 17 that are made without the authorization of the copyright owner..

..(ii) Any property constituting or derived from any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly as a result of a violation of subsection (a)..

..(iii) Any property used, or intended to be used, to commit or facilitate the commission of a violation of subsection (a) that is owned or predominantly controlled by the violator or by a person conspiring with or aiding and abetting the violator in committing the violation, except that property is subject to forfeiture under this clause only if the Government establishes that there was a substantial connection between the property and the violation of subsection (a)..

This is the 1980s equivalent of the government being given the legal authority to seize cassette recorders if they were used in recording a song off of the radio. Under this legislation, downloading even a single mp3 file unauthorized by the copyright owner will give the federal government the power to take your computer. There is no way that the federal government can enforce this. In fact, it is insane that the U.S. House of Representatives is more concerned about keeping the record and movie industry happy by passing this legislation than they are with real issues. Incredibly, this bill was passed by a vote of 410-11. Two of the dissenting voters included Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

John Conyers, [the] member of the U.S. House of Representatives who originally introduced this bill made the following statements describing the purpose of the legislation. His statements were republished in a Billboard Magazine report..

(1) prioritize intellectual property protection to the highest level of our government;

(2) make changes to IP law to enhance the ability of IP owners to effectively enforce their rights;

(3) make it easier to criminally prosecute repeat offenders;

(4) increase penalties for IP violations that endanger public health and safety..

Basically speaking, Conyers believes that downloading illegal mp3 and movie files endanger public health and safety. Conyers is either an insane individual that belongs in a mental institution for making such a ridiculous statement or he and everybody else who voted for this bill is in the back pockets of the RIAA, the MPAA and the rest of the music and movie industry. Common sense would dictate that such a law is unenforceable and should have not been seriously entertained. This is just another sign that this country is run by a bunch of fascists who are trying to find as many ways to undermine civil liberties under the guise of enforcing the law. What is really ridiculous about this, is the fact that the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land is violated by these fascist tyrants in Congress every single day of the week.

If they were actually serious about enforcing the law, why are they not following the Constitution? Why do they reject it?

Maybe if the movie and music industry stopped putting out horrible content, their sales would be a little better. It seems as if they are trying to blame people who download unauthorized mp3 and movie files for their shortcomings in business. Perhaps they should do what smaller independent music and film production companies have done and embrace the technological revolution instead of stifling it by trying to push this anti-American legislation down our throats..

It is understandable to go after people who are illegally profiting off of selling material that isn’t their own but there really isn’t a need for government involvement. The record industry should sue those people if they believe that there are groups or individuals who are unfairly profiting off of their work. A court can decide if the claims they present are valid. However, to give powers to an already corrupt government to seize private property from people who are violating copyright laws by merely having downloaded mp3 files or movie files on their computer is unenforceable and beyond the scope of government. Section 301 of the bill establishes the Office of the United States Intellectual Property Enforcement Representative and section 501 of the bill establishes the Intellectual Property Enforcement Division within the Department of Justice under the office of the Deputy Attorney General. These particular offices will be established to serve as the enforcement arm for this legislation..

How many more powers is this corrupt legislature going to give to a renegade executive branch that is already engaging in perpetual war, setting up a police state, authorizing torture, destroying national sovereignty and other horrors? The federal government is full of petty bureaucrats and tyrants that can’t do anything right to begin with, and the U.S. House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to expand government again through this legislation. With 410 of these tyrants voting for this legislation, it is doubtful that we will be successful in defeating this bill in the U.S Senate or if it goes to the dictator in chief..

Lee Rogers - May 9, 2008 - posted at www.roguegovernment.com

As a pre-emptive strike I will go ahead and deflate the primary argument people always bring up in favor of bulls [freudian typo there so I left it Laughing] like this:
"The entertainment industry is losing billions of dollars per year due to piracy and have to take strong measures to counter it."

No they are not. Arguments like this always make the utterly fallacious assumption that if the downloader couldn't get it for free, then they would pay for it. I (and most likely millions of others) can counter flat out that I would NOT pay for it if I couldn't get it for free. I download music. I also buy CD's - of artists I really like and want to support. I will download the others to listen to them and build up a collection, but if I were unable to do that, I would still only buy the CD's of artists I really like and want to support.

Actually, I take that back. If this bill goes through I will boycott the music and movie industry and not pay for a single thing. (I'll just wait to see the movies on TV and hear the music on the radio) I would suggest everyone else do the same thing.
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TheMidnightJudge
Ghost in the Shell
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Joined: Mar 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why the bill is unenforceable. It isn't hard to trace internet activity.
The government made a law that created a penalty for a form of stealing. I honestly don't understand why this is wrong or a major concern for that matter.
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LoveableNerd
Velociraptor
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Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Posts: 439
Location: Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, you must not understand the nature of the open peer to peer networks. They are decentralized, and everyone that uses them are servers as well as clients. Tracking all illegal downloads would be impossible without monitoring every single byte of communication over the internet. This doesn't scream big brother to you?

Second, it is debatable that downloading is stealing. Theft generally implies that you take something which the original owner no longer has possession of... File sharing is not the same thing. Sure, they argue that it is stealing, but their argument always uses the fallacious assumption that if users didn't download it for free, they would buy it. I've already destroyed that argument. It may be a bit murky moral ground, but no more so than recording a song off the radio or a TV show with your VCR/DVR - then letting your friend watch/listen to it.

Finally, I have a big problem with gestapo storming into my house to inspect and seize my computer. It matters little whether this is accomplished by jack boots literally beating down my door to search my computer, or spyware being forced onto my computer slowing down my processing assuming I am doing something with no proof or probable cause. We used to have a 4th amendment to prevent that kind of Nazi crap.
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8th Cmdmt: Thou Shalt Not Steal.
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Kauf039
Deinonychus
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Joined: May 17, 2008
Age: 24
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that has got to be one of the stupider bills lately... they are aware that if they did try and enforce this "properly" they would nearly be taking every computer from anyone in the 15-35 age bracket? Not to mention the hell in the justice system trying to prosecute them and the amount of money that would have to be sunk into this system to keep it going... *shakes head* Some people really need a reality check.
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jamescampbell
Sea Gull
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if a virus downloaded it how would they prove it was actually you.
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cybershooter
Tufted Titmouse
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Joined: May 03, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 44
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh oh...I just hope the UK doesn't follow suit!
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Nambo
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 01, 2007
Posts: 570
Location: Croydon England

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame us, for giving these people the power to gradualy complete control our lives.
Every thing we let them get away with gives them the confidence that we will let them without complaint, so they can move up to more draconian measures.

Soon they will be telling you what time you should go to sleep at night, and what time we have to get up.
We wont be allowed to own property, etc, etc, they laugh at us that not only do we allow them to invade our lives without hinderance, but then we vote for them to do it to us even more.

A "guise" is right, if its not interlectual property rights it will be terrorism or your computer is causing global warming, give it to us!
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LoveableNerd
Velociraptor
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamescampbell wrote:
and if a virus downloaded it how would they prove it was actually you.

They don't have to. All they have to prove is that it was your IP address. And the precedent is already there.

A few years ago the RIAA had servers setup on the p2p networks in a sting operation and were suing people who connected to their servers and downloaded music. I know that is Entrapment, but it was apparently legal because it was civil action, not criminal. Anyway, when that was going on one of my programmer friends wanted to create a virus that would download music... that way if everyone's computer did it without their knowledge they'd have no grounds to sue. However, then they started going after feeble grandfathers and impoverished single mothers of kids who downloaded without their knowledge, and he realized they'd just sue the unsuspecting victims without mercy. So if a virus like that really did exist and got disseminated... yep, they'd take our computers anyway.

The same thing goes if you have a wifi network and someone hacks into it from outside and downloads music... the IP is tied to your wireless gateway, so they would take it along with your computers.
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8th Cmdmt: Thou Shalt Not Steal.
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Nexus
Phoenix
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Joined: Aug 15, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an easy solution to evade IP address tracing, just use an anonymous proxy, or just hack into a public wireless network. But then you have the issue of them possibly tracing the interface MAC address too, which then you must spoof the MAC address somehow and still allow downloading to ensure best evasion. These industries will never learn with their aggressive tactics. Their use of laws, tactics and threats are only just encouraging new, smarter ways and means for piracy to thrive, and never going to stop it anyway. They'd have to arrest/sue the entire internet in order to do that. Laughing
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DocStrange
Peacebone
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's idiotic. I expect it to fail like a lead balloon. This may actually kill blogs that host free mp3s (even if the label consents). In how do they know that Nine Inch Nails' The Slip was made to download for free or not? Some underinformed computer policeman could accidentally confescate Trent Reznor's computer.
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Shidash
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, way too may computers would be taken, many falsely. Don't forget that people can set you up to make it look like you did something even if it was them.
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pezar
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know how easy it is to switch a hard drive, especially in the cheaper computers that are everywhere nowadays? Simply undo the two sides of the computer, unscrew the little screws holding the hard drive in, unplug it from the power and data connectors, then reverse process to replace it with a brand new hard drive with nothing on it. Throw the hard drive with incriminating data into the nearest deep body of water. Bingo, your evidence is gone. The jackbooted thugs break down your door to take your PC, you smile nicely and let them take it, then they go to search the hard drive and get...nothing. Zilch. No evidence of erasure, after all you just took it out of its antistatic bag and stuck it in there. They triple check your IP address, but the evidence is gone. What will they do now? The incriminating hard drive is at the bottom of the river in the mud somewhere. All they have is an IP log showing that you downloaded it. The only way that would fly in court is to take away the jury's discretion and FORCE them to say you're guilty and FORCE the judge to give you the maximum sentence. They already do that with drug cases. We might as well just get rid of the justice system entirely. They break down your door and kill you, no questions asked, and you never find out what you did. Very convenient for getting rid of troublemakers.
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LoveableNerd
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pezar wrote:
Do you know how easy it is to switch a hard drive, especially in the cheaper computers that are everywhere nowadays?


Better yet, just save your mp3's and videos on an external usb hard drive. Remove it when you're done (and I'm sure with a little thought you can figure out a way to hide it that they wouldn't find, but you could retrieve later). No need to crack open the computer for the technophobes out there.

However, the log of your IP being used to download it will still be there, so they would still have a case, unfortunately.
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8th Cmdmt: Thou Shalt Not Steal.
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DiabloDave363
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1984, accept for us itll be 2084
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RainSong
Seatbelts Totally Cause Autism
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They can seize your computer now anyway. Not for having free MP3s on it, but rather for a variety of other crimes, including child porn.

I think everyone is getting a little too worked up about this. In reality, I highly, highly doubt that they're going to go around tracking down everyone who has a song or two or even a dozen on their computer. More likely than not, this is made for the people who do mass downloadings, totaling over one hundred and actually hurting profits for the music/movie companies. To go after each individual would cost too much, be too time consuming, and be unrealistic to meet their expectations. There is no reasonable way for them to take each computer with illegal downloads on it. I'm guessing that the majority of people freaking out about it here are not important enough to warrant a seizure by the government.

Do people actually read 1984 before they start comparing things to it? This is a fairly serious question, by the by.
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