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MrRedNeck
Butterfly
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Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Same discrimination, new packaging. |
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| They are called homeowners associations. Our society still permits discrimination the only requirement is a better ability to cover it up!! "Community Image" is the new name for it and it can very easily include Aspergians! |
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 50
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| oh, it's a lot more broad than that. We have something called 'covenant's, which force what sort of color your house will be, how often you water the lawn (which was funny in the recent drought; either you watered your lawn, and got fined by the city, or didn't, and got fined by the Homeowners' association...either way, you'd get fined), drape colors, what kinds of cars you could have in the front, etc. |
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Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 711
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Really? My house has a HOA and they've never mentioned anything to myself or my son about our behavior. He spends of the time without pants on too, and I'll check the mail in my bathrobe or pajamas. |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mage wrote: | | Really? My house has a HOA and they've never mentioned anything to myself or my son about our behavior. He spends of the time without pants on too, and I'll check the mail in my bathrobe or pajamas. |
I don't know about you, but with me nobody could see enough of me in my home without a telescope, or coming on my property. If the cars/area look clean and in good condition, there is nothing they could do. As for watering, you can't encourage someone to break the law. That ITSELF is against the law!
And even going out in your bathrobe or pajamas, to be in a neighborhood or your home was allowed in the US even in the 50s! There wasn't any perceived problem.
Basically, the stated purpose is to keep the area clean and reasonable to keep property prices from plummeting, etc....
It isn't going to prevent people with AS from coming in.
In the US, there are LAWS against such discrimination. Of course, pricing and complexity DOES limit how bad things can be. |
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demeus
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hate to burst your bubble but it seems like HOAs and CC&Rs seem to preempt even federal law. The case law for this is how the federal government deals with ham radio antennas. The FCC released a ruling called PRB-1 which requires community zoning boards to reasonably accomadate ham radio operators who wanted to put up an antenna. HOAs however, do not have to accomadate hams what so ever. I am sure that smart lawyer could extend that to other community rules such as watering limitations and the ADA too. In fact, the only thing that HOAs must accomadate is stallite dishes which congress specifically said must be exempted from CC&Rs.
The problem is that the CC&R is that it is attached to the deed itself which means that you knew about the rules when you purchased the property. The seller is suppose to tell you about it (but many do not disclose that fact). Therefore, the fall under a different set of rules than the basic community zoning ordinances (unless the zoning ordinance itself is attached to the title or deed). More explaination beyond this is beyond my scope and I would suggest talking to a property lawyer for advice.
Could there be a day when persons with AS/Autism and other disorders are banned from area based on CC&R's? Yes, I could see that. All it would take would be a statement such as "The owner will not allow anyone diagnosed with any mental health condition (defined as a diagnosis made from the latest version of the DSM) to reside on the property. This includes immediate family." I know what this would cause but until common sense is restored..... 
You can however protect yourself from CC&Rs and HOAs. The best thing to do is if you are purchasing a home where you suspect there is a HOA (mostly areas built from 1980 and later depending in where in the USA you are), put into the contract that sale is dependent upon a search of the deed/title for CC&Rs and the rules are acceptable by you, otherwise, you can back out and get your deposit back. Then, pay a lawyer to do a search and outline if there are any CC&Rs and what they are. I know the lawyer will be expensive but CC&Rs seem to be even more expensive and instrusive than the cost of the lawyer. |
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westernwild
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The wild, wild West
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I used to be a paralegal for a real estate attorney, and we often did work for HO's. Fascist dictatorial idiots, frankly. It's not just AS, it's everything. And heaven alone help you if you make one simple mistake against their five million pages of "regulations." Why in the hell anyone would want to even consider being a part of an HO is totally beyond me. Then again, I've always been a bit more independent-minded and nonconformist anyway. I have to recognize that not everyone is like that.
_________________
Queen of the anti-FAAAS. FAAAS does NOT speak for me and many other families!!
Life is not about waiting out storms, but learning to dance in the rain-Anonymous |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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In the US there are SEVERAL governing agencies. In order of superiority, most superior first(with LIMITATIONS):
1. FEDERAL
2. STATE
3. COUNTY
4. CITY
5. COMMUNITY
6. OWNER
A good example is that many governments have height limitations. In most cases, a place lower on a hill can not add height that affects the view of a place farther up the hill. There are SIMILAR laws that prohibit things like color that could affect community appearance.
One limitation is one of limitations! The federal government demands that there not be discrimination. There are STILL notes on property, in California at least, that, by law, apparently can't be changed, that say that the property should NOT be sold to blacks! State law DEMANDS they be IGNORED!
The current antidiscrimination laws say not to be discriminated on based on race, creed, color, or disability. Of course, it IS apparently OK to discriminate against healthy white males, but that is it.
| demeus wrote: | Hate to burst your bubble but it seems like HOAs and CC&Rs seem to preempt even federal law. The case law for this is how the federal government deals with ham radio antennas. The FCC released a ruling called PRB-1 which requires community zoning boards to reasonably accomadate ham radio operators who wanted to put up an antenna. HOAs however, do not have to accomadate hams what so ever. I am sure that smart lawyer could extend that to other community rules such as watering limitations and the ADA too. In fact, the only thing that HOAs must accomadate is stallite dishes which congress specifically said must be exempted from CC&Rs.
The problem is that the CC&R is that it is attached to the deed itself which means that you knew about the rules when you purchased the property. The seller is suppose to tell you about it (but many do not disclose that fact). Therefore, the fall under a different set of rules than the basic community zoning ordinances (unless the zoning ordinance itself is attached to the title or deed). More explaination beyond this is beyond my scope and I would suggest talking to a property lawyer for advice.
Could there be a day when persons with AS/Autism and other disorders are banned from area based on CC&R's? Yes, I could see that. All it would take would be a statement such as "The owner will not allow anyone diagnosed with any mental health condition (defined as a diagnosis made from the latest version of the DSM) to reside on the property. This includes immediate family." I know what this would cause but until common sense is restored.....
You can however protect yourself from CC&Rs and HOAs. The best thing to do is if you are purchasing a home where you suspect there is a HOA (mostly areas built from 1980 and later depending in where in the USA you are), put into the contract that sale is dependent upon a search of the deed/title for CC&Rs and the rules are acceptable by you, otherwise, you can back out and get your deposit back. Then, pay a lawyer to do a search and outline if there are any CC&Rs and what they are. I know the lawyer will be expensive but CC&Rs seem to be even more expensive and instrusive than the cost of the lawyer. |
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Silver_Meteor
Asperger Accountant
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: North Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | In the US there are SEVERAL governing agencies. In order of superiority, most superior first(with LIMITATIONS):
1. FEDERAL
2. STATE
3. COUNTY
4. CITY
5. COMMUNITY
6. OWNER
A good example is that many governments have height limitations. In most cases, a place lower on a hill can not add height that affects the view of a place farther up the hill. There are SIMILAR laws that prohibit things like color that could affect community appearance.
One limitation is one of limitations! The federal government demands that there not be discrimination. There are STILL notes on property, in California at least, that, by law, apparently can't be changed, that say that the property should NOT be sold to blacks! State law DEMANDS they be IGNORED!
The current antidiscrimination laws say not to be discriminated on based on race, creed, color, or disability. Of course, it IS apparently OK to discriminate against healthy white males, but that is it.
| demeus wrote: | Hate to burst your bubble but it seems like HOAs and CC&Rs seem to preempt even federal law. The case law for this is how the federal government deals with ham radio antennas. The FCC released a ruling called PRB-1 which requires community zoning boards to reasonably accomadate ham radio operators who wanted to put up an antenna. HOAs however, do not have to accomadate hams what so ever. I am sure that smart lawyer could extend that to other community rules such as watering limitations and the ADA too. In fact, the only thing that HOAs must accomadate is stallite dishes which congress specifically said must be exempted from CC&Rs.
The problem is that the CC&R is that it is attached to the deed itself which means that you knew about the rules when you purchased the property. The seller is suppose to tell you about it (but many do not disclose that fact). Therefore, the fall under a different set of rules than the basic community zoning ordinances (unless the zoning ordinance itself is attached to the title or deed). More explaination beyond this is beyond my scope and I would suggest talking to a property lawyer for advice.
Could there be a day when persons with AS/Autism and other disorders are banned from area based on CC&R's? Yes, I could see that. All it would take would be a statement such as "The owner will not allow anyone diagnosed with any mental health condition (defined as a diagnosis made from the latest version of the DSM) to reside on the property. This includes immediate family." I know what this would cause but until common sense is restored.....
You can however protect yourself from CC&Rs and HOAs. The best thing to do is if you are purchasing a home where you suspect there is a HOA (mostly areas built from 1980 and later depending in where in the USA you are), put into the contract that sale is dependent upon a search of the deed/title for CC&Rs and the rules are acceptable by you, otherwise, you can back out and get your deposit back. Then, pay a lawyer to do a search and outline if there are any CC&Rs and what they are. I know the lawyer will be expensive but CC&Rs seem to be even more expensive and instrusive than the cost of the lawyer. |
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No, they cannot do this. Even if you signed it and you broke the terms and they took you to court, a judge could declare this to be unenforceable. This is illegal under the ADA.
_________________
Not by revolution but through evolution are all things accomplished in permanency.
Certified Bookkeeper:AIPB
QB ProAdvisor
Diagnosed with Autism/Childhood Schizophrenia early 60s. Today, I would have Asperger Syndrome |
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