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Bozewani
Toucan
Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 263
Location: Somewhere in the Universe
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Willard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Confederate States of America
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Auties stand up in NJ! |
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| Bozewani wrote: | http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-10/1213418109274090.xml&coll=1
I hate how the term "disabled" is thrown out way too casually like it it's not a big deal, and in the spirit that autism is a disability (it isn't) but at least you have to give credit to these people. |
Looks like good things are happening there.
You might want to put another twenty years of life experience under your belt, though, before you decide that autism isn't a disability.
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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel - but I am, so that's how it comes out."
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Bozewani
Toucan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I am convinced it isn't.
It's the same way that homosexuality was considered a disease 
Now what's your opinion on homosexuality, Willard? (Mine is, with all of the problems in the world, we are concerned about whoose doing what in their bedtime, they are human to). |
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KingdomOfRats
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 2612
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Auties stand up in NJ! |
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| Bozewani wrote: | http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-10/1213418109274090.xml&coll=1
I hate how the term "disabled" is thrown out way too casually like it it's not a big deal, and in the spirit that autism is a disability (it isn't) but at least you have to give credit to these people. |
it depends on how see 'disability'.
'disabled' is not meant to be a big deal,it's not nasty or a bad thing,its description of impairment that affects every day living for long term,it's not bad,it's just a word.
whether anyone likes it or not,autism is a disability for many-where even many support workers,specialists,house modifications, aides,and medicating doesn't make the problems go away-and on the milder end,it can be disabling in specific areas.
autism is neither 'always disabling' or 'always high functioning and non disabling',it's a spectrum that includes different severities,
different functioning,different levels of complex needs,different abilities,splinter skills and intelligence levels.
and no one can say autism isn't a disability,as they can only speak for their own experience.
the disability awareness...
that is a great idea and should be done everywhere,all over the world.
am used to go to a college which was mostly for people with disabilities,and it was based at broadoak high school,a unofficial special EBD school,the students there would abuse am and all the other adult students at the college and would attack the weaker ones,the headmaster did a a disability awareness meeting,where he got a group of those from the course am was on ,to speak to speak to the children at the school about disabilities and it helped a lot with how were treated by the children.
the more awareness children can get of disability,the better.
it shouldn't be treated as anything bad.
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["Even through the darkest days, this fire burns...always"-Killswitch Engage]
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Rynok
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 23
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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The word disability bothers me because of the link to the word disabled...which I'm not.
Hindrance would be a much better word that I would agree with.
I don't know, I think a lot of this stuff comes down to petty wording issues.
Its like the term "high functioning". I don't like that one either because it still labels you, to me, as "less functioning than a normal person, because if you were the same you would be called normal". |
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earthmonkey
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Age: 18
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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While not all autistics would be considered disabled (whether by society, themselves, or both), and I quite understand someone stating that the description doesn't apply to them personally, please keep in mind that disability is not a dirty word that it's best to distance yourself from, or to try to distance all autistics from.
Perhaps "Autism is a neuro-developmental condition that is a spectrum including non-disabled and didables individuals" strikes as more inclusive description?
_________________
"Public transportation is for jerks and lesbians." --Homer Simpson
"why is it bad for me to discuss why I need the lights off above my desk but it is ok for you to tell me you had a camera shoved up your a#$?" --an aspie coming out |
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ToadOfSteel
Extremist Moderate
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2404
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| I live in NJ, and what I remember happening was in last year's general election, there was a referendum to lose the term "idiot or insane person" as a legal term describing people who weren't cognitively able to understand the voting process... it was largely the reason I voted in 2007... |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
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Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| earthmonkey wrote: | While not all autistics would be considered disabled (whether by society, themselves, or both), and I quite understand someone stating that the description doesn't apply to them personally, please keep in mind that disability is not a dirty word that it's best to distance yourself from, or to try to distance all autistics from.
Perhaps "Autism is a neuro-developmental condition that is a spectrum including non-disabled and didables individuals" strikes as more inclusive description? |
That description at least gives eevry person the opportunity to say they're or are not disabled.
I have that impression that disability is a really dirty word for many many people.
I don't agree that saying that one is disabled is a way of saying one is useless, defective and worth less than other people. That's just wrong and silly to think. But even some autistic people see it like that.
Well, I'm disabled in some areas but I'm not useless or defective, I'm actually perfectly good and cool to my mind, I just have troubles.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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earthmonkey
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Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Age: 18
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sora wrote: | | earthmonkey wrote: | While not all autistics would be considered disabled (whether by society, themselves, or both), and I quite understand someone stating that the description doesn't apply to them personally, please keep in mind that disability is not a dirty word that it's best to distance yourself from, or to try to distance all autistics from.
Perhaps "Autism is a neuro-developmental condition that is a spectrum including non-disabled and didables individuals" strikes as more inclusive description? |
That description at least gives eevry person the opportunity to say they're or are not disabled.
I have that impression that disability is a really dirty word for many many people.
I don't agree that saying that one is disabled is a way of saying one is useless, defective and worth less than other people. That's just wrong and silly to think. But even some autistic people see it like that.
Well, I'm disabled in some areas but I'm not useless or defective, I'm actually perfectly good and cool to my mind, I just have troubles. |
I agree.
_________________
"Public transportation is for jerks and lesbians." --Homer Simpson
"why is it bad for me to discuss why I need the lights off above my desk but it is ok for you to tell me you had a camera shoved up your a#$?" --an aspie coming out |
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Willard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Confederate States of America
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bozewani wrote: | I am convinced it isn't.
It's the same way that homosexuality was considered a disease
Now what's your opinion on homosexuality, Willard? (Mine is, with all of the problems in the world, we are concerned about whoose doing what in their bedtime, they are human to). |
I don't give a rat's patoot about who's gay and who isn't. However, if being gay causes you to get dragged out into the woods, tied to a tree and beaten to death, you've got a serious social hurdle to overcome. And who's fault it is, doesn't matter to your broken bones.
Difficulties in socializing with the NT will cause you problems in the workplace, and over a period of thirty to fifty years, you may find yourself without anything resembling a pension, a 401K, or even a savings account, all because people you worked with thought you were a tad bit odd because you didn't talk much, or go out with the gang for drinks after work, or play on the company softball team.
It's easy to say "Oh, my AS isn't a disability, I can function just fine" when you're 20, but just wait till you're 50, with a resume twenty pages long, because you've found yourself looking for a new job more often than you've gone shopping for new clothes.
When everyone in your field says you're one of the best in the business, but no one wants to hire you because the long silences make them uncomfortable.
Not a disability, my @ss. If it's not a disability for you, either you're too young to have lived through the hard truth, or you've been misdiagnosed.
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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel - but I am, so that's how it comes out."
- Bill Hicks |
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penny07960
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 154
Location: US - right coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: disability function of position in 'spectrum' |
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Willard – I am sympathetic. But the degree of “disability” probably depends on the individual’s position on the ASD spectrum. I have many coworkers that are clearly ‘afflicted’ with Aspergers, yet thrive in the setting (engineering) where social skills are considered optional. I hope I am not overstating the case, but I believe aspies make BETTER engineers than do NTs. They are more focused, and often love to get into the details. They earn good salaries, often love their work, are respected for their contributions and (even if avoided socially) seem happy.
NTs tend, in my experience, to exit engineering early and “go into management”, or marketing, where they can deal with people rather than with systems. This is doubly true for women NTs; barely any survive in engineering. They tell me that it is soulless and that they miss human contact. They often thrive in management. I am often in technical meetings with dozens of engineers where I am the only women in the room.
In contrast to aspies, as people get further into the autistic parts of the spectrum, there is little doubt in my mind that their ability to interact with others becomes more and more compromised. I don’t see how this can be seen as anything other than a disability. And, as you point out, the NTs that likely judge your career success are probably far more comfortable with other NTs, and will discriminate against those who are different in both hiring and promotion. Hence your very long resume.
Penny
P.S. I believe that this also accounts for some of the hostility between WrongPlanet (“W_P”) people and Autism Speaks (“A_S”) people. (Did you see the Time magazine article?) The highly verbal, often successful (in the economic sense) folks that disproportionately inhabit W_P may resent being stigmatized as handicapped, or having a “disorder”. Many of us see ourselves as having different brain wiring that gives us different strengths and weaknesses than NTs.
In contrast, the poor folks who are being spoken for in A_S (mostly by their parents) are likely to be low-functioning and severely handicapped by their condition. |
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Rynok
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 413
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Willard wrote: |
Not a disability, my @ss. If it's not a disability for you, either you're too young to have lived through the hard truth, or you've been misdiagnosed.
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Seeing it as a disability only gives you an outlet to blame all your trouble on. "I'm disabled, thus its ok if I don't perform as highly as my coworkers do". Also I strongly believe your field of choice makes a difference. I work in the field of computer science, and to tell you the truth...when I go to meetings they don't care if I make eye contact and smile broadly. They care that I know my stuff well enough to fix their problems. That's what they pay me for anyways. Maybe I'm too young (worked for a year now), but I doubt that is the problem here. There is a reason its called a spectrum. |
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Willard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Confederate States of America
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rynok wrote: |
Seeing it as a disability only gives you an outlet to blame all your trouble on. "I'm disabled, thus its ok if I don't perform as highly as my coworkers do". |
I perform far MORE highly than my coworkers do because I am more dedicated and more focused, and I have a wall full of awards to prove it. Unfortunately, I can't EAT them.
I stand by my statement. Those of you who are fortunate enough to have a good job that pays well FOR NOW can be as self righteous and self assured as you like. Time will tell.
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"I don't mean to sound bitter, cynical or cruel - but I am, so that's how it comes out."
- Bill Hicks |
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earthmonkey
Velociraptor
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Age: 18
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Willard wrote: | | Bozewani wrote: | I am convinced it isn't.
It's the same way that homosexuality was considered a disease
Now what's your opinion on homosexuality, Willard? (Mine is, with all of the problems in the world, we are concerned about whoose doing what in their bedtime, they are human to). |
I don't give a rat's patoot about who's gay and who isn't. However, if being gay causes you to get dragged out into the woods, tied to a tree and beaten to death, you've got a serious social hurdle to overcome. And who's fault it is, doesn't matter to your broken bones.
Difficulties in socializing with the NT will cause you problems in the workplace, and over a period of thirty to fifty years, you may find yourself without anything resembling a pension, a 401K, or even a savings account, all because people you worked with thought you were a tad bit odd because you didn't talk much, or go out with the gang for drinks after work, or play on the company softball team.
It's easy to say "Oh, my AS isn't a disability, I can function just fine" when you're 20, but just wait till you're 50, with a resume twenty pages long, because you've found yourself looking for a new job more often than you've gone shopping for new clothes.
When everyone in your field says you're one of the best in the business, but no one wants to hire you because the long silences make them uncomfortable.
Not a disability, my @ss. If it's not a disability for you, either you're too young to have lived through the hard truth, or you've been misdiagnosed. |
Also, some of those who describe it as not a disability for them are people who are older and who have adapted to the point where they can pass often enough, and also depends on their environment (so a person in an environment more accepting and accommodating would probably feel less disabled).
For instance, while my dad probably wouldn't be diagnosable today, when he was a child from what he's told us he most likely would if he were born around nowadays (when he was 12 it was 1960, so yeah if he'd got diagnosed with anything when young maybe childhood schizophrenia, but not autism).
Of course, not everybody ends up being able to be undiagnosed, and I'm fairly disabled by being autistic. But I don't think that those who become less disabled or not really disabled at all suddenly fall off the spectrum, just because they can hide stuff and keep a job - it just means they're not disabled at that point.
_________________
"Public transportation is for jerks and lesbians." --Homer Simpson
"why is it bad for me to discuss why I need the lights off above my desk but it is ok for you to tell me you had a camera shoved up your a#$?" --an aspie coming out |
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ignisfatuus
Raven
Joined: Feb 06, 2008
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Willard on this one. A lot of individuals are growing up in a protective bubble due to advancements in autism awareness and activism by those with Asperger's and their family (this is a good thing, despite the later setbacks, as long as you are exposed to the reality you will eventually face, if only in small doses at first). The unfortunate truth is you are not the unique little snowflake you have been told you are and will find out you are an expendable cog once you leave the sanctuary of that protective circle. The severity of this revelation is going to be compounded by the fact you are different, making the shock a world shattering one to your self narrative.
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