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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: A good article on the clinical picture of Asperger's ... |
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It shows, and explains the differences between it and Autism, and how the criteria themselves, whilst similar, don't account to much in the way the two disorders manifest. It explains it all adequately as it's outlined in the DSM-IV-TR: Asperger's Syndrome Guidelines for Assessment and Diagnosis
This description, whilst probably appearing negative, fits (this is what clinicians look for):
| Quote: | The commonly described clinical features of the syndrome include:
a. paucity of empathy;
b. naive, inappropriate, one-sided social interaction, little ability to form friendships and consequent social isolation;
c. pedantic and monotonic speech;
d. poor nonverbal communication;
e. intense absorption in circumscribed topics such as the weather, facts about TV stations, railway tables or maps, which are learned in rote fashion and reflect poor understanding, conveying the impression of eccentricity; and
f. clumsy and ill-coordinated movements and odd posture. |
| Quote: | Qualitative Impairments in Reciprocal Social Interaction
Although the social criteria for AS and autism are identical, the former condition usually involves fewer symptoms and has a generally different presentation than does the latter. Individuals with AS are often socially isolated but are not unaware of the presence of others, even though their approaches may be inappropriate and peculiar. For example, they may engage the interlocutor, usually an adult, in one-sided conversation characterized by long-winded, pedantic speech, about a favorite and often unusual and narrow topic. Also, although individuals with AS are often self-described "loners", they often express a great interest in making friendships and meeting people. These wishes are invariably thwarted by their awkward approaches and insensitivity to other person's feelings, intentions, and nonliteral and implied communications (e.g., signs of boredom, haste to leave, and need for privacy). Chronically frustrated by their repeated failures to engage others and make friendships, some of these individuals develop symptoms of depression that may require treatment, including medication.
In regard to the emotional aspects of social transactions, individuals with AS may react inappropriately to, or fail to interpret the valence of, the context of the affective interaction, often conveying a sense of insensitivity, formality, or disregard to the other person's emotional expressions. That notwithstanding, they may be able to describe correctly, in a cognitive and often formalistic fashion, other people's emotions, expected intentions and social conventions, but are unable to act upon this knowledge in an intuitive and spontaneous fashion, thus losing the tempo of the interaction. Such poor intuition and lack of spontaneous adaptation are accompanied by marked reliance on formalistic rules of behavior and rigid social conventions. This presentation is largely responsible for the impression of social naivete and behavioral rigidity that is so forcefully conveyed by these individuals.
As with the majority of the behavioral aspects used to describe AS, at least some of these characteristics are also exhibited by individuals with higher-functioning autism, though, again, probably to a lesser extent. More typically, autistic persons are withdrawn and may seem to be unaware of, and disinterested in, other persons. Individuals with AS, on the other hand, are often keen, sometimes painfully so, to relate to others, but lack the skills to successfully engage them. |
| Quote: | Restrictive, Repetitive, and Stereotyped Patterns of Behavior, Interests, and Activities
Although in the DSM-IV definition the criteria for AS and autism are identical, requiring the presence of at least one of the symptoms in the list provided (see table above), it appears that the most commonly observed symptom in this cluster refers to an encompassing preoccupation with restricted patterns of interest. In contrast to autism, where other symptoms in this area may be very pronounced, individuals with AS are not commonly reported to exhibit them with the exception of the all-absorbing preoccupation with an unusual and circumscribed topic, about which vast amounts of factual knowledge are acquired and all too readily demonstrated at the first opportunity in social interaction. although the actual topic may change from time to time (e.g., every year or two years), it may dominate the content of social interchange as well as the activities of individuals with AS, often immersing the whole family in the subject for long periods of time. Even though this symptom may not be easily recognized in childhood (because strong interests in dinosaurs or fashionable fictional characters are so ubiquitous among young children), it may become more salient later on as interests shift to unusual and narrow topics. This behavior is peculiar in the sense that often times extraordinary amounts of factual information are learned about very circumscribed topics (e.g., snakes, names of stars, maps, TV guides, or railway schedules).
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Norah_W
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 30, 2007
Posts: 315
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: Re: A good article on the clinical picture of Asperger's ... |
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| Danielismyname wrote: | | For example, they may engage the interlocutor, usually an adult, in one-sided conversation characterized by long-winded, pedantic speech, about a favorite and often unusual and narrow topic. |
Oh no, they're talking about kids here again though. Don't they realize there are adult Aspies? Great article otherwise though. |
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penny07960
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 154
Location: US - right coast
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't think they are implying that the speaker is a child. They are merely stating that, regardless of the age of the one doing the 'engaging', the target ("interlocutor") is likely to be an adult.
The implication, I believe, is that AS kids and adults are more interested in speaking with adults. I have found this to be true. As a child, my interests fell more into the domain of adult topics (science, machines, plumbing fixtures...) and discourse with other children was unrewarding; i had no interest in cartoon characters or pop music or other child-appropriate subjects. As an adult, I "like kids" (when they are well-behaved), but have little interest in speaking with them.
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2822
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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So your kid is a motor mouth about their hobbies?
There is no treatment, but submit the child as a lab rat, and a check for $100,000, and we will study for food.
Yale, we educated George Bush!
Trading on famous names for a living.
Buy the kid more Legos, it's cheaper.
Study AS adults, they are just as bad, so spend on something useful.
There is nothing we can do but we have learned to do it for a living.
Until they can publish something that I will post, Hey Folks! This works! All of their endless babble is for nothing.
They admit is in not Neurological, not a mental illness, it is a trait that runs in families, there is no treatment, but some of those families have a lot of money.
The traits of in depth learning, intense focus, and persistance for years, pay off as an adult.
It would be bad if they wanted Cold Fusion and the life of the party, but they are trying for just a modest person who sits in the corner. I would give up all of their life just to have them make eye contct.
Mess up your kid, and you will have an adult that will hate you to the grave.
I went through working on their deficiencys. They are still playing that game. You will sit here and write the same thing over and over till your hand writing improves, forever. You will do nothing else every day for the rest of your life, do you understand you little retard!
I understand there has been no progress in fifty years.
What can you expect from Yale, AS goes to MIT or Warton, so Yale tries to cripple them as children. |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you look at societies value system...as long as your "interest and obsessions" make you money, (or are about acquiring money to own possessions which reward you with the admiration or envy of others), it is normal. What makes AS obsessions "not normal" are that they don't make you money. I have been on these boards a few years and there are only a handful of members who seem interested in the door knobs or maps or that don't seem to understand what they are talking about in their interest. Most of our interests seem similar to "NT" but we just spend more time thinking about them.
I would say a more obvious difference in AS vs NT is a "general" desire to learn....but that doesn't sound "defective enough", so they leave that out. My BF spends hours researching info about guitars.....so do a lot of NT's on his forum. This is not what differentiates us from NTs.
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Funnily enough, Hans, and clinical sites in abundance, link a "positive" outcome for people with Asperger's to those who have an interest that's marketable to the majority of society, i.e., the stereotypical IT specialist, or engineer. Yes, one's outcome is defined by whether they're marketable or not (I bet it makes those whose interest is watching a specific TV show, and only that show, and knowing everything about it, feel all warm and wanted inside).
The problem with this is, one must also have less severe social deficits to actually work with and around others in regards to this interest.
I'm still trying to figure out if talking on the 'net like this counts towards whether one is "socially and emotionally aloof" or not; my mother says I appear as such to...everyone but her, and even then, I'm passive to her. |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I totally avoid all socializing in RL as far as I can. There is nothing enjoyable about it to me but I am addicted to comunicating on this site...so I also question if this is a "desire to socialize". I used to want to belong to a group but everytime I tried, I either didn't fit or couldn't handle it when they thought I should change to fit in....I gave it up by 28. Here I don't feel the pressure to fit in, but I still don't always feel the "same" as many people here but it is as close as I have ever come to relating to humans.
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Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
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Reodor_Felgen
Counting down till Castro bites the dust
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 1633
Location: Aspies for Freedom
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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A good article, in my opinion.
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sonny1471
Sea Gull
Joined: Sep 20, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Daniel -
There was definitely some good information provided here so thanks for sharing it. I do note, as do a few others, that it seems geared towards children. I think more work does need to be done regarding adult AS because so few doctors are knowledgeable about it. Looking at the "symptoms" of childhood AS in relation to adults can be helpful but adults with AS don't present as strongly.
I will note, however, that if you get me started on one of my interests, I will talk incessantly regardless of whether or not you care to hear about it. I suppose that's the one that doesn't seem to change for anyone over the years as the information points out. Unfortunately, my interests aren't really anything that I can realistically parlay into a career so I've struggled along in the workforce doing jobs I care absolutely nothing about.
My interests aren't necessarily "odd" but my intense interest in them is. I'm very into the world of modeling. So much so that I can name any model's name by photo and basically tell you what campaigns she's been a part of, which agency she belongs to, etc. Not an odd obsession, but my intensity with it is. I think that's the difference.
As for a preference towards "talking" online goes, I'd much rather communicate through email or chat rooms because I'm given the time to decide what to say and how to say it. It's much easier than real life interaction though I will do that in certain situations if I'm forced. |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 2528
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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THe article describes me very well, better than any other thing I've read about AS written by the so-called specialists in the field.
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dtoxic
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 313
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobody should be surprised that we'd rather interact online than in person. There's no need for eye contact or other nonverbal cues. The closest we come to using a nonverbal cue on here is adding an emoticon. We can formulate a thoughtful response and check it for accuracy and eloquence before putting it out there. A direct result of that is that our intelligence can shine through right away - I've come off looking stupid in face-to-face encounters because I blew the social requirements before having a chance to bring my IQ to bear. |
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NeantHumain
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Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| It's uncanny how well these things describe me, especially when I was younger. Awareness of distinguishing features helps people compensate for them as they see fit. For example, as I read up on the social functions of gaze, I taught myself how to use it to direct people's attention to what I am talking about. When I use gaze in this way, it is very much a conscious thing, not something reflexive. Likewise, I have learned better when and how to discuss things I enjoy talking about so that I don't end up talking to someone for half an hour about, say, meteorology (although that did happen recently enough at work! but I did stop myself). Unfortunately, many of the things they described (rigid, formal behavior; social naïveté; pedantic, monotonic speech; etc.) fit me pretty well; I'm trying to correct those because obviously it doesn't help if I'm putting people off before they've even talked to me. |
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Whilst it appears to be specific for children, of note is that it mentions that it's a stable condition that doesn't change too much throughout a person's life. People can adapt through intellect in certain ways as they develop (the DSM states "rote memory" as being the key feature in how some adults can blend in in certain situations, rather than the one-sided and verbose individual), but the core syndrome will always remain that can be picked up. And besides, I'm sure it fits in with how people and parents remember one as a child if they're objective, rather than hiding from the truth like many do (denial by family members seems to be a common thing, i.e., "there's nothing wrong with said person!" There's nothing wrong as individuals with AS usually interact with the family adequately).
I don't identify with it completely, other than that which is shared with other disorders (except for several years during my primary school years where I improved, before going back downhill in high-school; I spoke of my interest to people who asked, but I didn't initiate anything); I have an all-encompassing interest, as well as problems with nonverbal communication, and the usual pedantic [on the 'net'] and monotonic speech. I have a lack of empathy rather than a delay in such, and I don't interact with people out there, I never have (this isn't due to social failings, I'm just not interested, and even if I were, I don't know how to do anything other than stare at people blankly). Plus the usual cognitive and communication delays, as well as the whole slew of repetitive behaviours rather than just the all-encompassing interest.
Just another article I found in trying to figure out what I am, and another pointing towards the so-called "HFA". |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 2528
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
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It's the most accurate description of AS limitations that I've read so far. At least it's not full of misconceptions about what causes our different behaviors or assumptions about what's going on inside our heads when we don't display empathy, for example.
And the recommendations of what to do as far as assessment and treatment possibilities at this stage of research are sensible and realistic too.
Besides, I felt quite relieved that someone out there understands how difficult it is for me to survive in novel and complex social situations. All other articles I'd read so far spoke only of lacking and the need to acquire basic social skills (which I know from experience are not enough) such as eye contact, etc.
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Danielismyname
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Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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It's why I like clinical definitions and sites, they tend to refrain from mentioning opinions other than what everyone outside of the individual with the disorder sees. They point out the negatives (the symptoms), as that's what a disorder is.
There's positives and negatives to Asperger's (ironically, the positives reside in the negatives), it's just that the negatives are what professionals look for, as they're what makes it so hard for the individual with AS to function [socially].
I see my father in the article. |
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