 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Is my official diagnosis correct? |
 |
|
Do I actually have classic autism or is it AS? This has been bugging me for a while now, for reasons that are too long to get into here, and I would really appreciate your input.
Just before I turned 2, I was diagnosed with classic autism based on speech delay, self injurious behaviors, and lack of eye contact, so it initially would seem like the right diagnosis.
There's a catch, though. The reason for my speech delay was because I was deaf for the first few years of life due to fluid buildup in my ears. Once I had surgery to remove the fluid, I gradually started to acquire speech.
Can people with AS be self injurious that early in childhood?
Lack of eye contact is common to both classic autism and AS, so that one could go either way.
I used to stim all the time as a kid and still do, suggesting classic autism, but nowadays I restrict it to my bedroom, bathroom, or somewhere else where no one can see. Would someone with classic autism be able to do this or is it for the most part restricted to people with AS?
I have a job in a retail store and can interact with customers adequately, which to me would suggest AS rather than classic autism.
Getting back to my early deafness, I have several questions about that. If I wasn't born deaf, would I have acquired speech at the normal pace, possibly leading to an AS diagnosis or maybe none at all until later in childhood? Could being deaf, and all its frustrations, have made me act more autistic, in regard to exacerbating self injurious behaviors, than I would have acted had I not been deaf, possibly leading to a diagnosis higher up on the spectrum?
Sometimes I can't help but wonder if the course of my life and/or my official diagnosis would've been different (for better or worse) if I wasn't born deaf. Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree here. This post might come across as obsessing over something seemingly trivial, but I just feel the need for some clarification and closure, and I felt this might be the best place to ask. Thank you for taking the time to read this very long post and I look forward to hearing your thoughts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2855
Location: Europe
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm totally not the person to answer this. I'm kinda in a similar unsure position. But I wanted to point out the following 2 as I know about these:
But autistic toddler who are not delayed/speak enough can be self injures too. Adults with adequate speech too. I think this one can appear in any of the ASDs.
I do know that some deaf children and also blind children really stim and even stim a lot. Rocking seems to be a big one for self-stimulation. But they're not autistic.
_________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
|
| Back to top |
|
stochastic
Blue Jay
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In your case I don't think (I am no expert) that either of those symptoms, given you were deaf, are enough to be sure that it is classic Autism. Like some others on WP, I feel that there are many causes of autism, and likely many causes of AS. Remember that AS was originally based on only 4 patients. Since then it has expanded to include a larger population with a wider variety of symptoms. Right now I feel that official Dx isn't relevant for most of us, who are not disabled. You know more about yourself than your Neurologist, or any of us.
I suspect you have AS, but then again if you went to a Neuro now and were not already Dx, he may not Dx you with either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| For me, there's no question about me being somewhere on the spectrum. I still stim a lot, though mostly in private these days, still have some difficulties with eye contact and socialization, difficulty with change, think in pictures/videos making it hard to put thoughts into words at times. None of that changed after I had my surgery. In fact I attended special ed schools for just about all of my school years except for 1 kindergarten year. They never tried to send me to public school after that, due to behavior problems. The school I went to as a teenager was pretty good, but many of my autistic behaviors had improved by then, and looking back on it, sometimes I wonder if I couldn't have gone to a public high school by then. Or wonder if I was held back my entire childhood by a classic autism diagnosis that may have been diagnosed as AS later in childhood if I wasn't born deaf. Just trying to figure out where I actually am on the spectrum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2855
Location: Europe
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it is hard to say which one it is. There is no defining line between the two or to PDD-NOS. Other than the speech delay concerning classical vs. AS usually, which seems out of question to consider in your case.
You could of course look at the very stereotypical views of AS and classical.
Classical: Echolalia, severe social isolation towards about anybody, severe delay with self-help skills (even though the criteria for AS do not allow delayed self-help skills, many have these nevertheless), occupation with part objects (rather than an all compassing obsession with a certain topic), IQ. Did you hit your milestones (taking out everything with language)?
That's as textbook and as stereotypical as I can think now.
_________________
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
|
| Back to top |
|
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sora wrote: | I think it is hard to say which one it is. There is no defining line between the two or to PDD-NOS. Other than the speech delay concerning classical vs. AS usually, which seems out of question to consider in your case.
You could of course look at the very stereotypical views of AS and classical.
Classical: Echolalia, severe social isolation towards about anybody, severe delay with self-help skills (even though the criteria for AS do not allow delayed self-help skills, many have these nevertheless), occupation with part objects (rather than an all compassing obsession with a certain topic), IQ. Did you hit your milestones (taking out everything with language)?
That's as textbook and as stereotypical as I can think now. |
I definitely had echolalia.
My preference was certainly to be alone as opposed to being with peers, but I could interact well enough with my family and teachers when needed, albeit not "normally."
I did have problems with self help skills. The way I learned how to bathe, brush my teeth, dress myself, and some other things when I was a kid, was by an adult either demonstrating it and I copied them, or having to teach me in a hand over hand sort of way. Nowadays it's completely unnecessary for me as I can learn in a more "normal" manner, but that was how I learned in the past.
I had an IQ test at one point. Don't remember when it was, but I think my mom said I scored pretty close to the normal range.
I don't know if this would count as a preoccupation/unusual attachment to objects, but as a kid there were certain stuffed animals that I slept with, and if I woke up in the middle of the night and lost one, I could not go back to sleep and would wake someone up right then and there to help me find it.
As far as the other milestones you're asking about, I honestly don't know, because what I alluded to in my first post is primarily what was focused on by my family and doctors. I don't know how much help this last part would be for you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Some people, even HERE, were diagnosed AS, had EARLY speech, seemed to fit AS WELL, and WERE/are self injurious. Kanners AND AS both allow SOME social skills. MOST probably do ok to a degree. So I am saying you could be either. They SHOULD have waited until 3 or 4 to diagnose you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 3853
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd say go for a second opinion. But it could be all a coincidence you have it.
_________________
http://www.factcheck.org/
A place to check for the real truth in politics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 839
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I believe it's more based on functioning level than specific traits (stim vs no stim, eye contact vs. no eye contact). If you have been able to hold down a job I think that alone I think would put you on a higher functioning level than someone with classic autism. Also things like having friends or having a relationship with someone would put you on a higher functioning level. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Age1600
Bonita-Azul
Joined: Apr 23, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1936
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Somebody told me people with classic autism need to have strict routines and strict schedules and if those strictness gets interrupted the person with classic autism melts down. Also that people with classic autism have many problems with taking care of oneself. People with classic autism usually throughout childhood into adulthood have many problems communicating verbally that they rely on communication devices to be able to live. People with classic autism have many self help skill problems, and most likely have a delay in speech. Their IQs are usually below to average IQ.
Somebody also told me that people with aspergers usually don't need much assistance with daily activities in life. People with aspergers can speak very well or can speak with a stutter/stammer/slurr and so on but not to the extreme that they need a communication device of some sort. Also that people with aspergers are more into their obsessions rather then people with classic autism. Some people with aspergers usually can go on with life without even getting diagnosed, instead be labelled weird/awkward/extremely gifted/special etc... People with aspergers usually have average to above average IQ.
Both those statements are from a person who works in a childrens hospital with autism patients. Her words, not mine.
Just remember though, you can have classic autism and be high functioning that you couldn't tell you were an autie rather then an aspie in a group full of spectrummers. And each diagnosis, aspergers, pddnos, classic autism all have different types of functioning levels, and some can be diagnosed pddnos at first then classic autism, or vice or versa, or pddnos then aspergers.
Either way your autistic one way or another hehhe 
_________________
Dxed Classic Autism(moderate to severe as a child, now moderate to high functioning as an adult) & Dxed Tourette Syndrome... 
I'm one ticcing, stimming chica from the Jersey Shore 
Being Normal Is Vastly Overrated  |
|
| Back to top |
|
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks a lot for all your responses. I've read all of them and have been comparing my symptoms, functioning level, your responses, and everything else in between, to the tons of research I've been doing on the internet all afternoon. None of the sites really provided many answers. Then I came across this site:
http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=347
It's a blog, and the entry in this link talks about what PDD-NOS really means, and how someone would meet the criteria for it, since there are many misconceptions about what it really is. Some ways to meet the criteria:
| Quote: | Fitting the criteria for Asperger’s, and not the criteria for autism, with the exception that the person had delayed language early in life.
Fitting the criteria for Asperger’s, and not the criteria for autism, with the exception that the person has a lower IQ than the cutoff for Asperger’s.
Fitting the criteria for Asperger’s, and not the criteria for autism, with the exception that the person had a delay in self-help skills early in life.
(For the DSM-IV, but not the DSM-IV-TR.) Meeting the social criteria of autism alone, without the other criteria.
(For the DSM-IV, but not the DSM-IV-TR.) Meeting the language criteria of autism alone, without the other criteria.
(For the DSM-IV, but not the DSM-IV-TR.) Meeting the repetitive behavior criteria of autism alone, without the other criteria.
Meeting the social and language criteria for autism, but not meeting the repetitive behavior criteria. (Meeting social and repetitive behavior without language is mostly covered by Asperger’s.)
Having “a few autistic traits”.
Seeming autistic, but having another condition going on (such as cerebral palsy or intellectual disability) that makes it hard for a person to do enough things to fulfill the autism criteria.
Meeting the criteria for some other kind of autism, but not quite enough (in number) of the criteria.
Meeting the criteria solidly in one category, but ambiguously in one or more of the other categories.
Meeting the criteria, but ambiguously in all categories.
Meeting the criteria, but meeting them (or some of them) later than the cutoffs for other things. |
Reading some of your responses about how I could go either way in quite a few things, I'm wondering if this could possibly apply to me. I bolded 3 criteria above. The first bolded one is questionable since I was born with deafness, but the last 2 bolded above seem to apply to me. The second bolded item seems to apply to me right now, while the third bolded item might've applied to me as a kid (meeting classic autism criteria solidly, but with some AS traits).
Does this make any sense to you guys? Or have a different opinion? Am I interpreting the above right or wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
As an adult, are you:
Socially and emotionally detached from [nearly all] people (perhaps with a strong attachment to a certain person that you knew from an early age, but this isn't always there)? You appear socially withdrawn to outsiders; sometimes, you may approach others, but it'll be all set out and ordered so that it appears rigid. You have adequate expressive speech, i.e., talking, and adequate receptive speech, i.e., understanding, but you only express yourself when someone else asks something of you, or you perhaps require something/wish to express something of importance (in other words, interacting mechanically); you take things literally, and speech doesn't come "naturally" to you. It's an effort to talk
Your repetitive behaviours involve "stimming" (this can include self-injurious behaviour), whether to alleviate anxiety, and/or to mimic the motions of something you're interested in. You like parts of objects rather than a whole, and as an adult, this usually manifests as liking a single piece, like a type of horse, and not being interested in any other types of horses, or anything to do with horses but that type (only liking riding when it involves that type of horse for example). You generally require a routine for most things, otherwise you can't do them; you must wear this on this day whilst putting it on the same way, or else you can't function in other tasks for example. You don't need all of these, but one of them is there to a marked extent. You like saying phrases that appeal to you over and over again, for the simple reason that they appeal to you
Or,
You appear socially active, albeit odd and/or sometimes intrusive, not recognizing boundaries. You can approach others for social contact in person, but it probably appears odd, one-sided, and verbose on your part, often speaking of what you like. Your friends are probably interested in the same things that you are. Even though you can approach others, you still find it immensely difficult to do such, which can equate to social failings, and this can lead on to anxiety and/or depression. You may appear cold and unemotional to others due to not responding in ways they expect; you may appear insensitive due to not filtering your thoughts, and you don't really have time to talk about things that don't interest you, i.e., small-talk is of no interest. You may take things literally. Your expressive and receptive speech is fine, sometimes speaking in an overly formal and pendantic way. You probably get along with those older or younger than yourself, rather than "peers"
Your repetitive behaviours usually involve liking a single topic of special interest which you devote an inordinate amount of time to studying and collecting facts, i.e., liking everything to do with horses, rather than just that narrow piece like someone with Autism. You don't like thinking or talking of things that deviate from this special interest. You probably don't like change/a broken routine, and it causes anxiety when it is, but you can still function and do other things
#1 is Kanner's, #2 is Asperger's. This is generally speaking, of course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Danielismyname"]
With ME...
| Danielismyname wrote: |
You appear socially active, albeit odd and/or sometimes intrusive |
Somewhat, but people quickly figure I don't really "have a life".
| Danielismyname wrote: |
, not recognizing boundaries. You can approach others for social contact in person, but it probably appears odd, one-sided, and verbose on your part, often speaking of what you like. |
I recognize boundaries more than most. My talks aren't one sided, and appear verbose, etc... only if on an interest or tangential.
| Danielismyname wrote: |
Your friends are probably interested in the same things that you are. Even though you can approach others, you still find it immensely difficult to do such, which can equate to social failings, and this can lead on to anxiety and/or depression. |
YEP.
| Danielismyname wrote: |
You may appear cold and unemotional to others due to not responding in ways they expect; you may appear insensitive due to not filtering your thoughts, and you don't really have time to talk about things that don't interest you, i.e., small-talk is of no interest. |
Yep.
| Danielismyname wrote: |
You may take things literally. Your expressive and receptive speech is fine, sometimes speaking in an overly formal and pendantic way. You probably get along with those older or younger than yourself, rather than "peers" |
Yep. Most of the people I spoke with were older, etc...
| Danielismyname wrote: |
Your repetitive behaviours usually involve liking a single topic of special interest which you devote an inordinate amount of time to studying and collecting facts, i.e., liking everything to do with horses, rather than just that narrow piece like someone with Autism. You don't like thinking or talking of things that deviate from this special interest. You probably don't like change/a broken routine, and it causes anxiety when it is, but you can still function and do other things |
Yep! It WAS electronics, then computers, and now languages.
As for stimming, I have some odd things I do, though NOT even close to all the time, that some here would call stims. I can certainly control them. I DON'T like looking people in the eyes, and usually don't, and would rather not even have to look at them. I don't feel PAIN if I do though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I have to run off to work now, but I'll answer your post in more detail tonight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
chocoholic
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: At a Chocoholics Anonymous meeting
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The parts of your post I bolded are the ones that I feel apply to me. I'll go more in depth below each section.
| Danielismyname wrote: | As an adult, are you:
Socially and emotionally detached from [nearly all] people (perhaps with a strong attachment to a certain person that you knew from an early age, but this isn't always there)? You appear socially withdrawn to outsiders; sometimes, you may approach others, but it'll be all set out and ordered so that it appears rigid. You have adequate expressive speech, i.e., talking, and adequate receptive speech, i.e., understanding, but you only express yourself when someone else asks something of you, or you perhaps require something/wish to express something of importance (in other words, interacting mechanically); you take things literally, and speech doesn't come "naturally" to you. It's an effort to talk |
I think I fall into the socially withdrawn part. When I'm at work I find it much easier to focus on my tasks than to socialize with coworkers on the job and interact with customers. As far as approaching customers/interacting with them goes, I have no problem with it if it's scripted. It's when they ask me a question and I have to come up with the answer right on the spot without having much time to think everything through that I have difficulty with.
I do tend to take things very literally.
| Quote: | | Your repetitive behaviours involve "stimming" (this can include self-injurious behaviour), whether to alleviate anxiety, and/or to mimic the motions of something you're interested in. You like parts of objects rather than a whole, and as an adult, this usually manifests as liking a single piece, like a type of horse, and not being interested in any other types of horses, or anything to do with horses but that type (only liking riding when it involves that type of horse for example). You generally require a routine for most things, otherwise you can't do them; you must wear this on this day whilst putting it on the same way, or else you can't function in other tasks for example. You don't need all of these, but one of them is there to a marked extent. You like saying phrases that appeal to you over and over again, for the simple reason that they appeal to you |
I do stim pretty often, and most of them are very stereotypical. But nowadays I'm usually able to restrict them to my bedroom or some other place where no one can see. And I love repeating certain things, especially things I hear on tv shows or commercials. I used to be able to recite entire commercials when I was a kid. I thought it was pretty cool.
| Quote: | Or,
You appear socially active, albeit odd and/or sometimes intrusive, not recognizing boundaries. You can approach others for social contact in person, but it probably appears odd, one-sided, and verbose on your part, often speaking of what you like. Your friends are probably interested in the same things that you are. Even though you can approach others, you still find it immensely difficult to do such, which can equate to social failings, and this can lead on to anxiety and/or depression. You may appear cold and unemotional to others due to not responding in ways they expect; you may appear insensitive due to not filtering your thoughts, and you don't really have time to talk about things that don't interest you, i.e., small-talk is of no interest. You may take things literally. Your expressive and receptive speech is fine, sometimes speaking in an overly formal and pendantic way. You probably get along with those older or younger than yourself, rather than "peers" |
I can approach employees at places where I'm shopping if I really need to, but I prefer not to and would rather try to find what I'm looking for on my own, and I get somewhat anxious if I have to ask them. And like I alluded to above, I have no problems approaching customers at work if it's scripted, but I do have some anxiety about it at times.
| Quote: | | You may appear cold and unemotional to others due to not responding in ways they expect; |
Very true.
Like I said above, I do take things literally. And talking to teachers and other adults as a kid came much more naturally to me than interacting with peers.
| Quote: | Your repetitive behaviours usually involve liking a single topic of special interest which you devote an inordinate amount of time to studying and collecting facts, i.e., liking everything to do with horses, rather than just that narrow piece like someone with Autism. You don't like thinking or talking of things that deviate from this special interest. You probably don't like change/a broken routine, and it causes anxiety when it is, but you can still function and do other things
#1 is Kanner's, #2 is Asperger's. This is generally speaking, of course. |
I know I said above that I stim pretty often when you asked about repetitive behaviors, but this whole paragraph fits me to a T. Especially when it comes to baseball, particularly the New York Yankees. I'm a die hard fan, I watch every single game they play and visit baseball message boards every day.
And change certainly gives me a lot of anxiety, especially a last minute one, but at the same time it's not to the point where I absolutely can't function if it happens.
Notice I bolded neither portion above where expressive/receptive language is concerned. This is where I think I fall into a gray area. When I'm having bad days I show most of the Kanner's tendencies:
| Quote: | | You have adequate expressive speech, i.e., talking, and adequate receptive speech, i.e., understanding, but you only express yourself when someone else asks something of you, or you perhaps require something/wish to express something of importance (in other words, interacting mechanically); you take things literally, and speech doesn't come "naturally" to you. It's an effort to talk |
On the other hand, when I'm having good days, my expressive/receptive language will fall into the Asperger's description. Sometimes I can carry on a decent conversation on those days, though my speech may be a little odd at times.
I don't know if this post clarifies things more, or just leaves more questions than answers, as I seem to fall into parts of both categories. One thing I can say, however: the complexities of different areas of the spectrum are quite interesting, to say the least. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
