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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6312
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Email from mother calling Wrong Planet a "hate site |
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| Quote: |
Sender's Name: Teri Martin
I was looking at your website for my niece who has Aspergers\' and was quite disappointed. My son has autism and is non-verbal. I found your website to be a borderline \"hate site\" for those who have autism and are non-verbal. Between the article on the T-shirt about Autism Speaks and David Kirby, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Wanting to breakdown the stereotype of all autism being looked at as non-verbals, should be done without being discriminating and prejudice against non-verbals. You should think about uniting with all those on the autism spectrum, not create walls between those who speak and those who do not. You are sending a message of anger, hate and discrimination against non verbal autism....please stop! |
My response:
| Quote: | Hi Teri,
We have nonverbal autistic members on Wrong Planet. One of them posted on her blog about Autism Speaks sending a legal threat and she agreed that Autism Speaks is in the wrong to intimidate people with autism.
None of the nonverbal autistics on Wrong Planet believe that it is a "hate site" and would probably be offended by the allegation.
From what I've seen, Autism Speaks is the organization that is most to blame for hate against autistic individuals. Saying things like "People with Autism lack personhood" does not seem to embrace our nonverbal.
We are against organizations that hurt nonverbal autistics. For instance, we have attempted to bring light to the inhuman Judge Rotenberg Center, a facility that uses adversives (like electric shocks) on autistic people in order to try to "correct" them.
I think you may have gotten the wrong idea. And from what I've seen, David Kirby believe vaccines cause autism. We don't agree with his assumptioin that children with autism are "damaged goods."
Thanks,
Alex |
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craola
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds to me, although it may be me who has gotten it wrong that this is a misunderstanding about 'Autism Speaks' thinking it is about verbal and non-verbal autistics and not about the website itself?
Or have I completely misread that?
Otherwise I am at a complete loss as to how this could be seen as a hate site or an 'anti non-verbals' I thought there were many here, that is what is so wonderful about it is that no one stands out because everyone is accepted whether you're on the spectrum or not, if you're non-verbal Autism or borderline Aspergers. No one is judged or thought less of because of a label. No beliefs are forced upon anyone, there are discussions but if you don't agree then you can debate or not take part.
This is one of the few places I'm comfortable. |
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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6312
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess it is a misunderstanding but I can't see how you could even mistakenly think this is a hate site. |
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HarryWilliams
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Age: 110
Posts: 125
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see how you can say WP is one thing or another. You'll find every shade of opinion, political view and lifestyle. Maybe someone just needed to vent...
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craola
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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No neither can I, I'm not entirely sure which the second article even is.
Oh...ok I found it. I wonder if she looked at the forums or only the articles...
It makes me sad to think of people thinking about the site like that, I'm so tempted to ask you to let me write to her showing her more of the site... |
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penny07960
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 154
Location: US - right coast
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: is ASD too broad a label? |
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I wonder if this is blowback from the New York Magazine article.
I also wonder if the aspergers/autism spectrum is too broad. By lumping together so large a diversity of people under the same label, we may be causing more trouble for all.
For example, does an aspie living independently, earning a (low) six-figure salary, making (what I hope are) creative contributions really have the same problems as a non-verbal child who, perhaps, can’t even dress himself? While there may be some similarities in brain structure, or wiring, or neurochemistry, the impact on the individual is as different as absent-mindedness is from schizophrenia.
It may also be that the cause of these conditions is different. It is very obvious to many of us in the aspie ‘wing’ of the spectrum that the origin of our condition is genetic. We see similarities with parents, grandparents, siblings and, for those who have them, children. Our symptoms don’t suddenly arise at age 2, they appear to have been present from birth.
In contrast, there do seem to be kids who, for whatever reason, are ‘normal’ until they wake up one day and have lost language, social skills, etc. While I am not a fan of the vaccine theory, something does seem to have exploded in their brains, destroying circuitry that was seemingly intact a week earlier.
Perhaps Autism Speaks is a reasonable advocate for those who are not merely non-verbal, but so cognitively blunted as to have indeed “lost their personhood”.
Perhaps the rest of us need a different organization – and a different name for our condition?
Penny
Last edited by penny07960 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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velodog
Gold Supporter
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 1251
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Definitely not a hate site. Off the top of my head I can think of three non verbal members here who seem to enjoy the place. I'm sure there are more, but I haven't been here long. |
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Nan
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 3158
Location: left coast
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, on a few points so far.
the spectrum is a VERY broad spectrum. it might be difficult for someone who has a loved one on one end to relate, particularly, to someone who has a loved one on the other end. assuming, of course, that the spectrum is actually linear (which i kind of doubt, but that's semantics anyway).
i see people vent here. that's what people do, from what i can tell. i've seen all sorts of venting - pro this-or-that, anti this-or-that. i've seen venting from parents, from kids. from people on the spectrum, from people not on the spectrum.
the one thing i have noted is that unless there's a specific "hate" message or personal attack involved, all vents are tolerated here. that's not what i've found elsewhere.
so, no, i don't think this is a 'hate' site - unless one chooses to selectively filter out only those messages that one finds personally objectionable and/or threatening to one's life-view and magnify them up so that they become one's entire representation of WP. which is, i think, the definition of a kind of mental illness. which the spectrum is not about.
who was it who said "you can please some of the people some of the time...."?
ps - what new york magazine article?
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Novinson's Revolutionary Discovery: When comes the revolution, things will be different - not better, just different. |
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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The whole nonverbal/verbal thingy, and basing severity on how one can communicate verbally, is archaic and erroneous. 18% of those with [Kanner's] Autism are nonverbal into adulthood; that's not a very high percentage. There are people who're verbal that are [objectively] more severe than those who're nonverbal, it's just in a different or more facets. There's so many pieces to Autism/Asperger's, and each piece can range in severity from "mild" to "severe"; it's unique, and potluck in how "mild" or "severe" you are in each facet.
I don't understand the sender's point of view. |
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sinsboldly
Free Range Aspie
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 8059
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Nan wrote: |
who was it who said "you can please some of the people some of the time...."?
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"You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time."
John Lydgate (ca. 1370-1449)
"You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."
A. Lincoln (February 12, 1809–April 15, 1865), |
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Nan
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 3158
Location: left coast
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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thenk yew
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Novinson's Revolutionary Discovery: When comes the revolution, things will be different - not better, just different. |
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blackie
Emu Egg
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Cowgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: is ASD too broad a label? |
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| penny07960 wrote: | .........
I also wonder if the aspergers/autism spectrum is too broad. By lumping together so large a diversity of people under the same label, we may be causing more trouble for all.
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Alex,
On a related topic, I find the various topics under the General Discussion Index to be extremely broad, confusing and complex with all the various spectrum threads under one heading. Note this is my second post only as I'm often not sure where to start!
Perhaps its time to have separate indexes for various spectrum disorders for the General Discussion starting with the most common ones. Lumping all the spectrums into one single discussion can intimidating for many people who may be just be seeking information for just one aspect of the spectrum and end up misreading or misunderstanding information meant for another spectrum and usually the General Discussion would be logically the first place they'd look.
Just a suggestion.
Ben |
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Anemone
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 790
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: is ASD too broad a label? |
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| penny07960 wrote: | | Perhaps Autism Speaks is a reasonable advocate for those who are not merely non-verbal, but so cognitively blunted as to have indeed “lost their personhood”. |
Nobody "loses their personhood". Personhood is something inherent in all human beings just as a part of existing, and is what basic human rights are based on. There are autism activists who believe autistic people do not have personhood and are not entitled to basic human rights. They don't think of us as truly human until we have been fixed. I have no idea if that's how people in Autism Speaks feel or not. Hope not.
It's true there's a wide range of functioning, but until we know more about the spectrum, I don't think there's any real way of subdividing us logically (and maybe not even then). Certainly, diagnosis and level of functioning in adults don't seem to have much to do with each other right now.
I'm sorry this woman thought this is a hate site. Maybe if she just read some more, and let things sink in a bit? |
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Followthereaper90
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 993
Location: finland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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sorry but this has been succest before main reason we dont do it is coz of too much difrent sides i guess what im trying to say is that putting too much sides=hard to navigate=hard to read lot of post that come here daily
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JerryHatake
Die Hard Mason Fan
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 9388
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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She made a very big assumption that was literally the opposite of what most of the members think of WP in the first place. She just made a rational mistake along with misunderstanding WP as well.
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For us who were born in order to shine, our journey will continue
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