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MrMark
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Sounds like it could be a good idea now. Reply with quote

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.




Only now they don't appeal to the "Supreme Judge of the world" . They act like they are.

Happy Holiday to all.
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monty
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good idea now? The Declaration was a hot-headed proclamation issued to spark a revolution. Do we need a revolution now? After the triumph of the 1776 Revolution, it took quite a while of dysfunctional governing to finally come up with a sensible document like the US Constitution.

In the spirit of entertaining your idea, we should start with a long list of grievances (most of the Declaration is grievances with England). Then we need to say that every attempt to complain about these grievances was met with insult and injury. Then we need to come up with a better solution - the solution to monarchy was democracy. What is the solution to democracy??
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The colonies revolted over far less of grievances than exist today. However, most people are reasonably content with the status quo so a revolution is unlikely.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However, most people are reasonably content with the status quo so a revolution is unlikely

And the ones that are unhappy aren't in a position to do anything about it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
The colonies revolted over far less of grievances than exist today. However, most people are reasonably content with the status quo so a revolution is unlikely.



people are content with being slaves that give up their rights so long as they're given the illusion of freedom. apparently, all you need now is to just run around saying we're free to convince the masses that we actually are. what a gullible bunch.
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Jaunty
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Sounds like it could be a good idea now. Reply with quote

[quote="MrMark"]The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription



Quote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."

The problem with this paragraph is that as far as true equality, rights, freedoms etc go, it's all hogwash. Especially in today's age. Tell the blacks in Harlem or the red Indians in Wyoming that they are equal with a millionaire in Manhattan, or a postal worker in Detroit, and they'll call you a right eejit. If you have a disability in the US, forget about proper benefits; it's get a job or live under a bridge or die. If you are a mental patient in a psych ward who needs help, it'll take about 24 hours before you are seen, only after some security guard has a look, and passes you by. Then a nurse will come along, give you a kick to see whether you are still alive, and then move on. The only time you get seen is when you are about to turn up your toes, and only if you have insurance. If you have money, you can do anything, even rort the IRS. If you own a gun, then you can shoot anyone you like, the 2nd amendment says so (no matter that it was meant for citizen militias in 1800-odd). Life and liberty? tell that to innocent refugees and people held with no charge in places like Guantanemo Bay. It talks about the right of the people to change government, but do these people ever fully exercise this right? Voter apathy because of some ill conceived idea that NOT voting is going to get people the thing they want only leads to more corrupt forms of government. For there to be true equality and fairness in the US, and for it to work properly, EVERYBODY MUST be afforde the same right to health care, employment, housing, education, welfare etc. Not for the rich,only but everyone, be they black white or brindle. Call me a socialist if ye must; don't care. Socialism means for society, and the good of such.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

created equal
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Jaunty
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, that implies a God or creator had something to do with it. Rather a misguided notion when you consider that mankind was not created but evolved (proved by Darwin later on). Beside the point. It should have said 'treated equally', given that blacks were hunted down for slavery, lynched, and treated as third class citizens up until quite recently. The Indians were systematically wiped out as the whites moved west, from the Apache to the Cherokee to the Sioux to the Utes... well, you get the picture. Had it enshrined that everyone be TREATED the same as everyone else instead of some creation belief (which in itself only proves that everyone wasn't), then maybe there would have been no need for an emancipation proclamation (still in itself a bit of a joke). Things then would be a lot better for everyone.

Hey, Ireland may not be perfect, but at least everybody knows where they stand; the only thing separating everyone was the orange and the green.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Jaunty: Equality of opportunity, not of result. You have to look at the Enlightenment and the classical liberal context of the Revolution to understand what was meant there. Socialism did not exist as a concept at this point. Also, I reject the notion of positive rights, so no one has a right to any of the things you listed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just imagine trying to tell King George that all men are created equal.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMark wrote:
Just imagine trying to tell King George that all men are created equal.

Divine right of kins and all that.
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