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LePetitPrince
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3143
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: The Fakeness of Men (in dating) |
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 Surprised? Fakesness...is this a word? I just invented it but I am sure that you guessed what it means.
Men are becoming more and more fake , here I said it , society's expectations about how a man should behave in front of a woman , women's universal expectations about how the man should be super confident during a date or even how he should never show any kind of insecurities ....all these social pressure push the men to be more and more....fake!
I am saying that based on observation of my friends/male colleagues/male coworkers over many years. I witnessed how they fake confidence, niceness , perfection, self-esteem, image and how they keep telling stories and exaggerated adventures about themselves and how well they hide their insecurities and their anxieties. Women don't hide any insecurity around men because they don't need to, they don't need to fake confidence and self-esteem , they just need to look attractive and that's about it.
I swear that they are not the same persons when they are just around male friends. What's really more frustrating that such strategy works ....and works pretty well ,I noticed that the more the guy is good in pretending confidence , strength , high self-esteem and hiding weaknesses the more he's liked by women and this just encourage the fakeness strategy used by men. Indirectly, women are pushing men to fakeness when they are continuously in many occasions stating about how a men should be and what traits should have and what weaknesses that must not have and how Mr.right should behave, they keep damnly reminding us about these things.
What's more and more frustrating is that most men don't even realize that they are faking themselves , men just don't like to admit their weaknesses and troubles especially around women , girls are always more open in public about what's disturbing them in themselves and in their lives because it's more socially acceptable to see a 'weak' girl but it's not socially acceptable to see a 'weak' guy, he'll be often be called 'sissy' by both men and women and that what most men fear to be called out and that's why he starts to pretend confidence and hide weaknesses.
When you ask a depressed male friend how he is in public , he'll answer : "I feel great" but once you have a 1-to-1 conversation with him you'll find out that he's far from being great. Men are just more likely to 'repress' their problems and their flaws and try it to solve just by their own (I myself do that too) and this what it's leading the fakeness of men around people and especially around women.
No wonder why men are three times more likely to commit suicide than women.
One of the major reasons of my failure with women is that I am a bad actor. |
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catspurr
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 16, 2008
Posts: 781
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Funny how you made it all everyone else's fault but the male's.
It's your choice to be fake.
There are actually way more women who appreciate men that aren't fake but if you are a NOW NOW guy then no wonder you are pissed off. You want fast food and you want it now so yeah of course you are going to have to be anything but yourself because I'm sure the real you is a spiteful mean bastard anyway so you want something that badly that you can't control yourself?
Guys like you need to understand something. The problem is you. It's not just society, it's not those "evil" women who are blamed for alot of things that aren't really of their own doing just to make up for your lack of taking responsibility.
If you are looking for someone to be real with, be yourself. Maybe you might have to go beyond your comfort zone to initiate but you aren't really being fake to do so.
By the way I'm tired of guys who like to claim what women want especially those who aren't exactly successful in dating. Well gee, I wonder why |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I've never met a man who didnt like confidence in a woman. Rather they expect them to have confidence just as women expect men to have the same. No one can tell me otherwise because to say men dont want confident women is simply the blindest comment about what people really want from their lovers. Therefore Im sure this isnt a surprise: it's not just men who are faking, but women do it as well. To be sexy you have to be confident, to be attractive you have to confident- and this doesnt mean you need to be a beer guzzling ladies' man or a playboy bunny, and it doesnt mean you cant ever be insecure about having a flat bum or bad skin- it just means you have to like yourself and let that come across because simply put that's how it's always been whatever the person is (AS, NT, gay, straight, male, female, attractive, unattractive...).Consequently, you have to work on your own confidence if you want people to notice you- no one else can take the blame and no one can do it for you. hard fact of life, but it's true.
how many men would date a pretty girl who was suicidal and/or insecure about her looks, weight, lack of experience, etc? not many, even the ones who say they would would eventually either grow depressed themselves, angry, or would leave her. |
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Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 2401
Location: Pantopia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| catspurr wrote: | | It's your choice to be fake. |
Absolutely!
| catspurr wrote: | | There are actually way more women who appreciate men that aren't fake... |
Where are they?
| catspurr wrote: | | If you are looking for someone to be real with, be yourself. |
Now THERE is a TERRIFIC idea! Be fake and attract women, or be myself and all alone.
| catspurr wrote: | | Maybe you might have to go beyond your comfort zone to initiate but you aren't really being fake to do so. |
You are either being yourself within your comfort zone, or you're faking interest in something else outside that zone.
| catspurr wrote: | | By the way I'm tired of guys who like to claim what women want |
Then what do women really want? Based on all but one of the women I know, what a woman really wants is...
The opportunity to make a man over into her preferred image, which is: a man that she can show off to her friends; a man that will come when she calls; a man that thinks of no other woman, even his own mother; a man that will finance her lifestyle; a man that ignores all of her pretentions while assuming none for himself; a man that accepts that their relationship is all about her desires, her feelings, and her needs; a man that has no friends, no interests, and no life outside their relationship; and a man that she can dump any time and fully expect that he will be available for her in the future.
Did I leave anything out?
_________________
a. Science is the vast graveyard into which all irrational beliefs are eventually laid to rest.
b. Faith is irrational belief in improvable concepts.
:: Science buries Faith. |
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t0
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: The Fakeness of Men (in dating) |
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I agree about people in general being attracted to confidence. But I think the argument of "people act differently when around different people" is common sense. People do this all the time because it's appropriate to act differently in different scenarios. If you're trying to attract a mate, you're going to try to act like something a mate would find attractive. If you've found one that you can trust, you're going to open up and be more honest.
I don't think women are necessarily looking for guys that are always confident. As a relationship gets more involved, I think they really want to know what a guy is thinking/feeling. |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's fine if someone lacks confidence. The thing is, being upset about an aspect of yourself is fine, but in general you have to like yourself and project a positive image on others in order for them to feel comfortable. I dont know exactly why, but people just feel odd around it.
That being said, I figure this is why men do not share their feelings among each other and feel weird when their mates do it with them??
edited to add: I dont mind when my boyfriend feels insecure or opens up to me. In fact I like it because it tells me more about him. But from my own experience it has not been a good feeling for me to show insecurity to anyone in my life. It's just not going to work expecting the world to be accepting as you are to them, and it isnt going to work being angry about that fact either. |
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matrix
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 580
Location: between glitches
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| merr wrote: | I think it's fine if someone lacks confidence. The thing is, being upset about an aspect of yourself is fine, but in general you have to like yourself and project a positive image on others in order for them to feel comfortable. I dont know exactly why, but people just feel odd around it.
That being said, I figure this is why men do not share their feelings among each other and feel weird when their mates do it with them?? |
I mean wouldn't it be weird if you just met someone and that other tells you his/her entire life story, especially their trials and tribulations, etc.? Likewise it is not always appropriate to do so. Instead, just like storytelling, you put all the crucial information piece by piece so the reader/viewer/gamer is interested throughout the story. Men can bond their experiences though they might be more detailed, gritty, or physical. To experiment, try taking WWII-era stories (or anything eventful really) from your grandad then your grandma, but not together. Contrast the way they explain the events. Maybe you will get a good grasp of the contexts.
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Pugly
Man-child diligently becoming a Dude, man
Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Age: 26
Posts: 2567
Location: Wisonsin
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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The fakeness of the guy is proportional to the whorishness of the girl.
Let the masses embrace their superficialities.
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I hate so much about the things that you choose to be.
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zghost
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 617
Location: Southeast Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well I'm female and this is what I think of this:
| Quote: | | The opportunity to make a man over into her preferred image, which is: a man that she can show off to her friends; |
Why? Who cares what other people think.
| Quote: | | a man that will come when she calls; |
Only if it's an emergency, and that one goes both ways.
| Quote: | | a man that thinks of no other woman, even his own mother; |
Just don't touch, and it's all good. Of course he's going to look, think.
| Quote: | | a man that will finance her lifestyle; |
I can take care of myself. How about a man who won't make me support him?
| Quote: | | a man that ignores all of her pretentions while assuming none for himself; |
No, that's just stupid.
| Quote: | | a man that accepts that their relationship is all about her desires, her feelings, and her needs; |
That's not a relationship, that's slavery.
| Quote: | | a man that has no friends, no interests, and no life outside their relationship; |
Of course not. A relationship does not mean giving up your own life.
| Quote: | | and a man that she can dump any time and fully expect that he will be available for her in the future |
No. Mean and stupid.
Fnord, please date some better women. |
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5481
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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It is really depressing, just because lasting and solid relationships are built off of real and sincere emotional connection. The more you have to jar yourself into being something or someone else, the more you fry your ability to where - lets say you make this happen and end up in a relationship - when there's no real you, you can't be you, there's no happiness and your either breaking it off (if your more stand-up) or hoping they will.
The fact that this is the way society is going, and the fact that they really don't seem to care (people, men are getting played on this, women are getting played on that urge and getting bitter - it turns around and bites everyone back and forth) its almost like we're really saying, knowingly or unknowingly "Yes, we want eugenics back, we're tired of these loser males/females in this world and the best way, if we can't have polygamy we'll just abolish marriage and try to make sure that the only people passing seed or receiving it are up the pettiest standards of genetic worth"; that's what it seems to come down to.
That's not bitterness speaking, its sadness that people are really depraving and depriving themselves all in the name of conformity. In the past I was just as guilty of trying to get myself into a mode where I could make that work, partly peer pressure from my friends, partly just because it seemed like universal law; now I've realized I just flat out don't want the results and 'rewards' of that kind of game because they (the sort of relationship that results) really aren't rewarding or life-enhancing at all. Waking up, realizing you have dignity, realizing that you're calling the shots and setting your own pass grade based on what matters - even single that's heaven comparatively.
And yes, there are plenty of real women out there just like real men. Very sadly though, everyone's jaded, paranoid, and the good have their guards up against each other all too often, don't even realize the truth behind the next person until its too late and they've already passed. |
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 1881
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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LPP yeah I agree. Play games and workout a routine that works for you, if you want to attract those sorts of women. But I mean you don't want to have a serious relationship with a woman that is attracted to a routine. I guess do it for a start to get women interested in you, it's all just a game.
Why not try just having more female friends. Bros before Hoes  |
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merr
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: |
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it's one thing if we're talking about being open and honest, it's another thing to use your (future) partner as a dumping grounds for your problems. It becomes a cycle, and Ive been through it and I feel that by being so insecure and using him like a talk therapist that I may have messed the romantic and legitimate feelings we had at the time (this was two years ago and I have changed since then). What it had done was make him depressed and made him feel that I could never make him smile. Every now and then it is good to let it all out and be insecure...but be sure not to let it become routine and make sure it is coupled with a positive attitude and a desire to become more at ease with yourself, or else trust me, it really really brings the other person down mentally and does serious damage to the relationship (you become a project to fix and not an equal romantic partner).
It's okay to be a loser but to see it negatively, to DWELL on it, to bring that into a relationship constantly, will do damage psychologically to both people. If my first impression on someone was to tell them why men suck, or why it's hard to date, or that my life sucks (i dont think men suck btw), that person will automatically think "here is a person i need to fix" instead of "here is a person i can love". this become the basis of the interactions. it's not conformity, it's the natural process. i guess you could call it a step of evolution that can stop people from getting psychologically hurt.
Having confidence doesnt mean never being real with your partner. Having confidence means knowing how to love yourself and to show that love to others. It means embracing and owning your faults and not being ashamed any longer. There's nothing wrong with that. And two confident people can have a real relationship where they are understanding and respectful of one another's feelings.
But to make it a habit is to make a mistake. I've never met a woman who didnt want a man to never show insecurity, but there are plenty of girls who feel that way, and plenty of spoiled women and men who are used to the cardboard cut out image of the perfect mate, whether it be physical attractiveness or personality. In reality people are multilayered and it's better, as matix said, to show these in stages. But on the first date? No. You become the person who needs fixing and the person who wants another person to fix them. That puts an unbelievably hard task on the other person's shoulders and they will more than likely go "whoa" and back away. You can do it subtly, but the truth is SOME women dont like it, so dont go after those women. I do think two people with low confidence can have a successful relationship, but that's only when they make sure to build each other up and not down, and they make that the focus of their relationship. Also if you mention insecurity, mention something good about yourself, something you enjoy, etc. dont let the basis of the relationship be negative. |
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techstepgenr8tion
cleveland audio assassin
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 28
Posts: 5481
Location: That's for me to know and for you to find out.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: |
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I didn't quote all of this but, that's a pretty impressive body of knowledge there and very well spoken.
| merr wrote: |
It's okay to be a loser but to see it negatively, to DWELL on it, to bring that into a relationship constantly, will do damage psychologically to both people. If my first impression on someone was to tell them why men suck, or why it's hard to date, or that my life sucks (i dont think men suck btw), that person will automatically think "here is a person i need to fix" instead of "here is a person i can love". this become the basis of the interactions. it's not conformity, it's the natural process. i guess you could call it a step of evolution that can stop people from getting psychologically hurt. |
I think a lot of times even 'fix' is putting it generously, quite often that's more of a queue to withdraw. That said though, I think even on the other end, very few if any people want to be 'fixed' by someone else, that leaves the ball in their court and I think forces many to realize that they need to do this on their own. Every time over the past few years that I saw a couple dealing with personal hardships and they kept a smile and stayed tough, stayed positive, I've always seen it as exemplary and something everyone could learn from (a great many people without AS not to mention).
| merr wrote: | | It means embracing and owning your faults and not being ashamed any longer. |
When people have been abused all their lives and can't find something within them that can either enable them to change or at least light a fire under their chair, this one's fatal. All the same I'd like to think most people, regardless of what they've been through, can think of how badly they want *it*, whether it's dignity, self-assurance, confidence, independence, true autonomy, relationships I think culminate with a bit of all of these things. |
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ToadOfSteel
Extremist Moderate
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2414
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| I have always seen the fakeness as a sign of insecurity among men. The men that are man enough to admit that they're men are the manliest men out there. Those that think they're gods are just deluding themselves. Sure, they can get the one-night stands, but in the end they have to own up to being a man or they'll spend the rest of their life alone. |
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LePetitPrince
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3143
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| catspurr wrote: | Funny how you made it all everyone else's fault but the male's.
It's your choice to be fake.
There are actually way more women who appreciate men that aren't fake but if you are a NOW NOW guy then no wonder you are pissed off. You want fast food and you want it now so yeah of course you are going to have to be anything but yourself because I'm sure the real you is a spiteful mean bastard anyway so you want something that badly that you can't control yourself?
Guys like you need to understand something. The problem is you. It's not just society, it's not those "evil" women who are blamed for alot of things that aren't really of their own doing just to make up for your lack of taking responsibility.
If you are looking for someone to be real with, be yourself. Maybe you might have to go beyond your comfort zone to initiate but you aren't really being fake to do so.
By the way I'm tired of guys who like to claim what women want especially those who aren't exactly successful in dating. Well gee, I wonder why |
You have misunderstand my post: it's not women's fault, it's everyone's fault including men at the top.Women have natural preferences and this is not their fault but the unintentional focusing on the preferences is one of the main reasons that are pushing men to fake themselves, you didn't notice the word 'indirectly'? maybe I should use unintentional too to avoid misunderstanding. This is a self-criticizing thread,the the title itself is insulting to men and not women.
I am not a NOW NOW guy nor a bastard (a little bastard maybe:P), I am 26 and still virgin and I only had 1 serious relation that lasted for 1 and half year,I am not even seeking for years and casual short-term relations don't interest me.
Sorry if I offended you. |
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