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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 1412
Location: Earth, mostly
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 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Ogouferay wrote: | | I doubt though that the creation of a fictional character, even at the expense of a couple of people is going to cause an enormous amount of harm in the long run. BTW, I wonder how many of the people that were affected actually felt so aggrieved that they would commit some self-harm or whatever? I don't think there'd be any at all. |
Well, except maybe Megan Meier...
Still seem like a bit of "harmless fun"?
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Jaunty
Butterfly
Joined: Jul 06, 2008
Age: 112
Posts: 15
Location: Auld Eire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| DeaconBlues wrote: | | Ogouferay wrote: | | I doubt though that the creation of a fictional character, even at the expense of a couple of people is going to cause an enormous amount of harm in the long run. BTW, I wonder how many of the people that were affected actually felt so aggrieved that they would commit some self-harm or whatever? I don't think there'd be any at all. |
Well, except maybe Megan Meier...
Still seem like a bit of "harmless fun"? |
From reading that, only cursory, it proves that she was a typical over-sensitive teenager who was pretty much what people would call an 'emo loser'. She had no family life, tried to hard at school, got sucked in by the first person she meets online, and was stupid enough to get in way over her head. While the suicide in itself is tragic, it shows that anyone who takes anything seriously enough to do something like that for whatever reason AFTER getting on the 'net, needed serious psychiatric help. Obviously her parents were blind to it, or they just thought any time she complained about school or whatever was just another teenage storm in a tea-cup. I would have to agree with Ogouferay on this, that the creation of a fictional character does no intrinsic harm, and I will add that the only way anyone could suffer is if they were unbalanced to begin with. If people take things so seriously that they spend every waking moment worrying about the least little thing, then the world becomes a pretty sad place indeed; and when that happens, it makes you wonder why more people aren't locked up in the nearest psych ward.
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Be gosh and begorrah, oh what a foine place this be....
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sinsboldly
The Persistence of Spam
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 6720
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Jaunty wrote: | | DeaconBlues wrote: | | Ogouferay wrote: | | I doubt though that the creation of a fictional character, even at the expense of a couple of people is going to cause an enormous amount of harm in the long run. BTW, I wonder how many of the people that were affected actually felt so aggrieved that they would commit some self-harm or whatever? I don't think there'd be any at all. |
Well, except maybe Megan Meier...
Still seem like a bit of "harmless fun"? |
From reading that, only cursory, it proves that she was a typical over-sensitive teenager who was pretty much what people would call an 'emo loser'. She had no family life, tried to hard at school, got sucked in by the first person she meets online, and was stupid enough to get in way over her head. While the suicide in itself is tragic, it shows that anyone who takes anything seriously enough to do something like that for whatever reason AFTER getting on the 'net, needed serious psychiatric help. Obviously her parents were blind to it, or they just thought any time she complained about school or whatever was just another teenage storm in a tea-cup. I would have to agree with Ogouferay on this, that the creation of a fictional character does no intrinsic harm, and I will add that the only way anyone could suffer is if they were unbalanced to begin with. If people take things so seriously that they spend every waking moment worrying about the least little thing, then the world becomes a pretty sad place indeed; and when that happens, it makes you wonder why more people aren't locked up in the nearest psych ward. |
Life is never that simple, Jaunty. . they rarely follow the script other's try to prepare for them. when you call her an 'emo loser' as if that explains why she shouldn't be missed. . .
"*When Tina got home, at five o’clock, she found Megan in front of the computer in a state of superheated distress. An insult war had broken out among Megan, Josh, and some of their friends. Megan had called another girl a slut, and the aspersions were returned in kind. Ron says that after Megan died he discovered a final message from Josh, saying, “You’re a shitty person, and the world would be a better place without you in it.”*"
*http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/21/080121fa_fact_collins
Merle
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Voltaire
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Location: At the back of your mind.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Sounds to me like a bit of a hissy fit, to be honest. Something you'd expect kids to be sent to their rooms to have a good time-out for, if it happened in real life. But we are talking fantasy internet stuff here, aren't we? If this girl was pushed that far over the edge, then her mother should have 1) taken away her computer, and 2) had her booked in for therapy. Because suicide is not the normal reaction to a schoolyard spat; she had far deeper problems which were treated like she was crying wolf. Besides, it's America, where kids aren't treated like normal kids; they are expected to be adults from day one. And obviously she wasn't cut out for it.
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Machiavelli, Dante, Sideshow Bob - now THAT'S a trinity. |
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sinsboldly
The Persistence of Spam
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 6720
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Voltaire wrote: | | Sounds to me like a bit of a hissy fit, to be honest. Something you'd expect kids to be sent to their rooms to have a good time-out for, if it happened in real life. But we are talking fantasy internet stuff here, aren't we? If this girl was pushed that far over the edge, then her mother should have 1) taken away her computer, and 2) had her booked in for therapy. Because suicide is not the normal reaction to a schoolyard spat; she had far deeper problems which were treated like she was crying wolf. Besides, it's America, where kids aren't treated like normal kids; they are expected to be adults from day one. And obviously she wasn't cut out for it. |
Voltaire pointed out a real truth. Parents are not the gods children think they are. They are human with limited vision and resources, and not always a safety net that can fix every boo boo and dry every tear. Psychologists and psychiatrists are not gods, either, and not everyone is treated and cured even if they are consulted. Somewhere in the mix must be basic decency of people being responsible for their own actions, and that includes those that torment as well as those reacting to the torment.
Guns and bombs in school is also not the usual reaction to a school yard spat, however everyone the world over knows what is meant by "Columbine" or "Virginia Tech." What gets me is only those who break under the pressure of the tormentors are considered 'defective' when to me, it is the tormentors that are the defective ones, free to torment again.
Merle
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"it takes a special type of person to complain about what they get for free."
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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: West of the Great Divide
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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We got two separate issues here. The lollylongs prank didn't bother me because I didn't see anybody getting hurt by it. But internet bullying is a very serious crime, about as serious as crimes get.
Suicide is a rare and extreme response, so I'd figure that for every suicide there's probably at least ten thousand people who get hurt really bad.
One of my daughters got subjected to this. It isn't something trivial.
People talk about the internet like it's some fantasy novel where everything is fiction, but it isn't. The internet is human contact, and it's just as real as any other form of human contact.
It's easy to say that somebody else should just not worry about it when you're not the one it's happening to. It's easy to trivialize somebody else's pain.
And age ain't got nothing to do with the capacity for hurting. Young people's pain is just as real as anybody else's.
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Thou out of heaven's benediction comest to the warm sun.
Approach, thou beacon to this under globe,
Nothing almost sees miracles but misery.
-from King Lear |
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MissConstrue
Aquarius
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 10660
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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^Agree with that statement because we are living in that world now and in reality it's either getting or is hard to find help out there. Although I encourage it. Some of us live far away from some of these resources not to mention a car and means for transportation. 
There was of course the famous case where one woman got mad at another...not sure what it was about lest someone else on this forum can explain. This incident happened I think a month ago. But one woman on the internet posed herself off to be a man to prank this girl she was having fights with. Eventually the fictional guy after getting to hear all about her life and personality replied her back many times with compliments and stories of his and how he'd like to meet her. Suddenly he attacked her with the insults she shared with him about herself and even went after her through emails never saying who he really was just to get her going.
She eventually killed herself and I guess this was proven by investigators by all the internet attacks she got. I'm sure the other girl didn't mean for her to go that far by doing the inevitable. She probably just wanted to p*ss her off but nevertheless it did invoke a reaction beyond probably her own belief.
Yes to some of us, we'd probably do the right thing and go on or ignore it. I don't think this girl was crazy but probably had severe problems with depression as some would post as crazy which is a little sad since there's a lot of ignorance about mental health as though crazies were nothing but lowlifes who deserve it.
There's eventful depression and then clinical depression whether one chooses to believe this or not. I don't think there's anything wrong with being just a little careful to what you say like Mr Bogan's response to ogouferay. I don't think there's this driving need to come off as attacking. But that doesn't mean you should just sympathize with them. I believe in reality check but there's a difference from me of reality check and direct attacks. Some might take the reality check the wrong way but if you're not belittling them directly or hurting them with words that come off as labels like emos,then I think you did do the best you could withrational/good advice or feedback.
It's like sinsboldy said about alcoholics, some of us don't understand the symptoms of it and others do like myself. I've actually helped out with some members in AA members without a sponsor. No they didn't sympathize with me but gave me some personal wake up calls with their own stories. Being as to how I could relate to those stories. Not to say, it's a sure cure becuase for me it goes on but I find myself in a lot less trouble with a little help than I did trying to do it on my own. I still at times struggle with trying to fix myself all by myself and for me it doesn't always work like that as they say in my meetings.
So some people don't have problems with alcohol, drugs, or depression but understand that some of us do without wanting to. I don't think slandering one for these character flaws is a good way to get them on the right road again unless maybe you give them a reality check to what happens after they've decided to go into this cycle. This is coming from one and no, I don't have all the answeres, I still struggle with depression and cravings for alcohol but I haven't done anything yet. From my personal point of view, depression is hard to explain if you don't have that problem. I have a small history of suicide and I know of some people even members that have gone out that door. Problem is, they can't come back. So realize what you're saying to these people who actually do have a problem with it. It's not fun for some of us. Part of the reason why I don't bother to post about it regarding those few people who attacked without really thinking about that OP's real problem.
As for trolls, it depends. Lollylongs didn't really come off as really that hurtful just annoying. So...meh, it all depends. I just don't like the idea of wasting my time trying to help a little by sharing some personal stories when the thread is that big with big so-called problems. Yeah you'll also get attention seekers as well but sometimes I often wonder now if they're having problems also to seek that much attention for their depression. I used to just hate it but now you just never know with people.
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 2833
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think what the adults did to Megan was despicable. Hurting a child like that? I think they should be charged for murder since they are responsible for her death. Sure she chose to kill herself but they were the ones who caused it with their hoax. As for their 13 year old daughter, she should be sentenced too but not tried as an adult. Kids do go along what grown ups tell them to do or they go along what their parents are doing because they trust the grown ups. Parents are supposed to set good examples for their kids and what they did to Megan was definitely a bad example for their 13 year old daughter. So it be unfair for her to be tried as an adult if she didn't know it was wrong.
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Aspergers, PDD-NOS, autistic, who cares what diagnoses I have, it's just a label. All on the spectrum. |
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Voltaire
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Location: At the back of your mind.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is, when it all comes down to it, is that you can walk away from the keyboard, and you aren't going to get physically hurt by words and comments. If you fall into the trap of giving out personal information to any Tom, Dick or Harry that you have only just come in contact with, then obviously there may be SOME danger; but all in all, if you use selectivity to whom you are talking to, put up your bullshit detector, then you have nothing to worry about. Kids are kids, granted; and some can be real bastards to one another. But if parents acted responsibly and disciplined them properly none of it would happen. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world. Oh how I wish for the simple days of the 60s, where none of this rubbish happened.
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I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.
Machiavelli, Dante, Sideshow Bob - now THAT'S a trinity. |
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sinsboldly
The Persistence of Spam
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 6720
Location: The Emerald Forest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Voltaire wrote: | | Of course, we don't live in a perfect world. Oh how I wish for the simple days of the 60s, where none of this rubbish happened. |
I am surprised you would exhibit the worst of the agist stereotypes, moaning about the "good old days" and how they should be valued more than today's trends and mores. I would think someone of your stated maturity would have realized that sort of attitude can and will make huge trust gaps in associating with younger people. Are you sure you are not your own grandfather? 
Merle
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"it takes a special type of person to complain about what they get for free."
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Voltaire
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Location: At the back of your mind.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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The 60s was a time when I could grow up carefree without having to worry about the perverts running around the streets, or the annoyance of people with mobile phones interrupting and bullying everybody just for the sake of it. The days when you could leave you house unlocked when you went to the shops, or play games outside until dark. Sure, the Vietnam war stuffed it up for a lot of people, but kids knew stuff-all about it. Football, cricket, water pistol fights, swimming in summer at the beach, going to the pictures for a cheap price, yeah that was great. If kids of today are so wrapped up in their insularity that they see the internet as their only escape, and therefore can't see the wood for the trees as far as comments directed at them, then I'm afraid that the world definitely has changed for the worst.
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I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.
Machiavelli, Dante, Sideshow Bob - now THAT'S a trinity. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9073
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't worry about perverts running around the streets. People get upset when a registered sex offender moves in on their street. I'm not concerned about the sex offender I know about, only the one I don't know about.
While cell phones are annoying, I don't see anyone bullying everybody just for the sake of it, except online.
I leave my house unlocked.
Remember Kent State.
I go to a weekday matinee for $ 4.75, which is about $1.25 in 1968 dollars adjusted for inflation.
I guess it's a matter of perspective.
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"Keep walking, though there's no place to get to. Don't try to see through the distances. That's not for human beings. Move within, but don't move the way fear makes you move. Walk to the well. Turn as the earth and the moon turn, circling ..." |
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Voltaire
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 07, 2008
Age: 53
Posts: 90
Location: At the back of your mind.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| MrMark wrote: | I don't worry about perverts running around the streets. People get upset when a registered sex offender moves in on their street. I'm not concerned about the sex offender I know about, only the one I don't know about.
While cell phones are annoying, I don't see anyone bullying everybody just for the sake of it, except online.
I leave my house unlocked.
Remember Kent State.
I go to a weekday matinee for $ 4.75, which is about $1.25 in 1968 dollars adjusted for inflation.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. |
That may be fine for where you live, but there are places where people don't feel as safe. Hence my wishing that times were much simpler like back then. Trouble is, there are too many who spend too much time analysing every comment (looking for hidden meaning) and taking everything literally, and thus miss the point of what has been said. You make it sound as if the time I grew up in was no different to now, but the way I feel, with all this perceived bullying (which is mostly in peoples imaginations, in my opinion) and threats of perverts attacking young kids, and murders every hour; now in the 21st century is a terrible time to be living. As I said, it is not a perfect world, and sure we make of it what we can, but when you get people who can do whatever they like and then get away with it without the slightest consequence, and someone who tries to defend their argument or stance gets the cat o' nine tails for doing so, then I think I would prefer the good old days. And if people have trouble with that, that's their problem - not mine.
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I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.
Machiavelli, Dante, Sideshow Bob - now THAT'S a trinity. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
Posts: 9073
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, you can't change your place in time, but you can change your place in space.
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"Keep walking, though there's no place to get to. Don't try to see through the distances. That's not for human beings. Move within, but don't move the way fear makes you move. Walk to the well. Turn as the earth and the moon turn, circling ..." |
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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: West of the Great Divide
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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MissConstrue
What you said was right on the money, but one point I'd like to comment on.
| MissConstrue wrote: | | So some people don't have problems with alcohol, drugs, or depression but understand that some of us do without wanting to. I don't think slandering one for these character flaws is a good way to get them on the right road again unless maybe you give them a reality check to what happens after they've decided to go into this cycle. |
I'm one of the people who has gone down some of these wrong paths. Some of them are behind me now, some of them aren't.
But I think the only "character flaw" worth paying attention to is the character flaw of people who don't care how much harm they do to other people.
| Voltaire wrote: | | The thing is, when it all comes down to it, is that you can walk away from the keyboard, and you aren't going to get physically hurt by words and comments. |
I can't imagine how somebody could make a statement so utterly in conflict with the reality of the human experience. Physical pain is nothing. Physical pain is a mild annoyance that does no harm to the spirit, a trifling thing that leaves human dignity entirely intact and does nothing to harm loved ones.
Like broken bones. Guy working above me on a construction site dropped a seventy pound piece of steel that hit my arm on it's way to the ground. My arm didn't slow it down at all. Human bones aren't that strong. I sat in the emergency room waiting area in my hard hat and my muddy clothes for an hour before they got around to me.
Sure, it hurt, it hurt a lot. Both of the lower arm bones, the radius and the ulna, were completely snapped in two. The foreman was waiting with me and we were joking about how my lower arm was shaped like a banana. Not that big of a deal.
I was still wearing the cast when I showed up for the initial custody hearing at the feminist "family court." That was when I experienced real pain, as dogshit the feminist got a lot of pleasure from ridiculing and humiliating me while destroying the lives of both me and my children.
Never mind which feminist. When you deal with enough of them, you will be forced to the conclusion that they look different, but inside they're all exactly the same. Not one feminist has a heart, a mind, or a conscience. If you're not convinced, try to find an exception.
No feminist could understand this or care, they've proven that, but there are human beings in the world who deeply love their children, and there are children who have a deep love for their parents.
After the shithearted feminist got done ordering that me and my daughters shouldn't be allowed to see each other, the evil thing pretended to be all compassionate about my broken bones.
And they wonder why people hate them.
The custody process dragged on for a long time. It didn't matter what I could prove or how much harm was being done. It always happens that way anytime the disease of feminism is allowed to exist. Wrongplanet is headed that way now. I hate to see it, but it's happening all over, so it shouldn't be surprising.
A year or so later, while this was still going on, I was working in the rain and I slipped on a muddy plywood scaffold, fell onto a cinderblock wall, and broke three ribs. It wasn't that bad, just jagged bone tearing tissue every time I inhaled. Just a mild annoyance, nothing at all compared to having your kids torn away from you and being forced to watch them suffer because nobody has the courage to stand up to butch the feminist and force the feminist trash to respect human rights.
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Thou out of heaven's benediction comest to the warm sun.
Approach, thou beacon to this under globe,
Nothing almost sees miracles but misery.
-from King Lear |
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