 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
criss
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 322
Location: London
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re Cure for Autism again |
 |
|
I am writing a book that will be published by Darton Longman and Todd that is all about my faith journey and my life with AS.
I need to do a bit more research on the cure front.
For example, I have heard many people in the spectrum say things like, "Even if there was a cure for autism I would not cue up for my Jab" or "I for one would not want any part of it" etc, etc, this confuses me and here I expose my great ignorance on the C word, because I have not understood what Cure for autism actually means.
Would such people not wish to be given a viral like flu injection to protect themselves against depression that is directly linked to our extreme sensitivities.
I do understand the Eugenics of it and how many aspies fear our culture being wiped out, how would this be so exactly
Please could someone help me out here, and perhaps be of service to other WP members in formulating a very brief and concise "Aspie cure for Dummies" breakdown on what is meant for cure.
And If we are talking here about extermination of our culture, why would an aspie even say I for one would not wish to have any part in being cured, if clearly that meant being exterminated.
Clearly I am very in the dark here and would welcome your help.
Chris.
_________________
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can only speak for myself. I don't hate myself so I do not want to be another person. I believe that the human brain is very complex and if you mess with one part in can effect something else. It is interconnected and for me to sacrifice some of the negatives I might have to alter the positives. Anyone who thinks they can do this is lying. The brain just is not that simple.
I actually feel the same way about any kind of treatment for AS...like ABA. The "experts" are still stumbling in the dark in their understanding of all the dynamics of AS and they are using children as genuie pigs.
That said,, I would love if there were some treatments that allowed me too function my best without changing the "good bits" but I certainly do not trust the people who came up with shocking autistics, over medicating and mislabeling people with AS traits as if they were schizophrenics or institutionalizing them with no understanding or accomodations for sensory issues or the importance of our obsessions to out psychological well being.
I do think more research needs to be done with adults on the spectrum to learn how they have managed to cope(and not), before anyone should try a design a "cure". What is actually broken and how much of that is a value judgement based on what the dominate culture values ?
To some up it more concisely....look at my signature...that pretty much sums up my personal philosophy about life, not just AS.
_________________
Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
Visit my crafts store
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5412685 |
|
| Back to top |
|
stochastic
Blue Jay
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 85
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When people talk about a cure, they are speaking hypothetically. If there was a pill that when you took it you magically became NT for example. There is no cure in reality, it's more about whether or not you accept yourself for who you are, or just wish you were 'normal'.
Some organizations like Autism Speaks actually say they are looking for a cure but they mean something to make us less of a problem for them. Much like a Frontal Lobotomy was used as a cure for years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
criss
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 322
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is good, thank you both for your contributions, they are valuable to me.
_________________
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4243
Location: Room 101
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A cure implies that we are defective. I do not believe myself to be defective, broken, diseased, or inferior, therefore I do not want a cure.
Also, it is a messy business to get involved with eugenics. Humans simply are not intgelligent enough to be able to handle something like that.
For your specific questions... cure for autism can mean either causing autistics to become NTs or simply killing off autistics/preventing us from being born so the rest of the world doesn't have to deal with us.
The eugenics side of it is the most likely direction for a cure, as it was for Down's Syndrome. A prenatal genetic test could enable effective genocide against autistics, and since autistics are often able to make valuable contributions to society, this would be a terrible loss. Plus, if the autistic community is seen as a group we can identify with, no one desires to see "their own" wiped out for any reason. Of course no Aspie (or anyone else) would want to have any part in something that destroys people like themselves.
Even if the cure was non-eugenic, ie the hypothetical "magic pill," it would still entail the destruction of the person I am and the replacement of that person with someone else. Autism is part of who I am, inseparable from myself, if you take it away you have a different person, but not me.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
|
| Back to top |
|
t0
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 473
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Re Cure for Autism again |
|
|
OP - I think you should ask this question at as many forums as you can (including the Autism Speaks forum). Since there is no cure, you may get many different answers as to what people interpret the cure to be. As such, opinions will vary.
I interpret the word cure to mean:
1) Eugenics, or
2) Something that dramatically changes the way my brain works
If methods or drugs are found that alter my perceptions (ie - reduce hypersensitivity) without dramatically changing the way my brain works, I consider these to be treatments.
| criss wrote: | | I have heard many people in the spectrum say things like, "Even if there was a cure for autism I would not cue up for my Jab" or "I for one would not want any part of it" etc, etc, this confuses me and here I expose my great ignorance on the C word, because I have not understood what Cure for autism actually means. |
I would not cue up for my Jab because I believe that dramatically changing the way my brain works would affect me in positive and negative ways.
| Quote: | Would such people not wish to be given a viral like flu injection to protect themselves against depression that is directly linked to our extreme sensitivities.
|
An injection to prevent depression is not a cure. It is a treatment to reduce depression. It is something that ASD and NT could both use to reduce sensitivity to the stimuli causing depression.
| Quote: | | I do understand the Eugenics of it and how many aspies fear our culture being wiped out, how would this be so exactly |
Genetic testing of unborn fetuses which are then aborted if testing shows genetic markers for ASD. Research down syndrome and the effect of prenatal genetic testing has had on the down syndrome propulation. Various WP members have quoted a 90% abortion rate for fetuses testing positive for down syndrome genetic markers. Try to find a reliable source for statistics on this topic. We fear a similar method of extinction via abortion.
| Quote: | | And If we are talking here about extermination of our culture, why would an aspie even say I for one would not wish to have any part in being cured, if clearly that meant being exterminated. |
Not sure what you mean. Do you mean Aspies should be looking to create a different definition/method of cure to avoid extermination? |
|
| Back to top |
|
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1762
Location: US, midmap
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wish I could cure people of their wish that everybody be exactly the same.
Everyone should be law abiding but really, how important is social intuition? Should everybody be expected to have it and should people be penalized for not having it? As long as you are law abiding and have respect for others, shouldn't that be enough? Me not looking you in the eye, using your name all the time or introducing myself means you make assumptions and will shun me? This is what is called "social intuition". Perhaps that is "lack of social intuition".
I don't think it matters as much but some act like it's the most important thing in life. To me, discovery and intellectualism is much more important. |
|
| Back to top |
|
The_Cucumber
Phoenix
Joined: May 05, 2007
Posts: 524
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
An Autism "cure" could mean one of 3 things.
1. Prenatal genetic tests for autism, followed by selective abortions if the test is positive.
2. A drug that reorganizes an autistic brain into an NT brain
3. Therapy that can maximize the functioning level of any autistic individual.
I consider the first to be a form of genocide, since it blatantly ignores that many people with autism have made valuable contributions to society (heck Albert Einstein was developmentally disabled, even if he didn't have autism). The second also ignores the beneficial effects of autism. The third however, I wholeheartedly support since it embraces the advantages of autism and simply seeks to ensure that everyone ends up on top.
_________________
The improbable goal: Fear nothing, hate nothing, and let nothing anger you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
dtoxic
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 313
Location: Boston MA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Orwell and Cucumber speak for me so accurately that I have nothing to add to their statements. |
|
| Back to top |
|
penny07960
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 154
Location: US - right coast
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is so complicated. And it is part of the why I argue that the “spectrum” of ASD is defined so as to be too broad and makes trouble for everyone.
As I have commented, there is a world of difference between
(1) an adult aspie who is living independently, earning an excellent income (in my case as an engineer), enjoying life (albeit alone) and feeling fulfilled (if socially isolated)
and, on the other hand,
(2) a severely autistic child who appears incapable of making any human contact, smashes his head against the table whenever the chance arises, screams if fed, washed, held… and would die if left alone for 48 hours.
To consider us both “on the same spectrum” does a disservice to each.
Those of us at one end don’t need or want a cure. We would like a little understanding.
In contrast, to say that there is nothing wrong with the severely autistic child on the other end of the spectrum, that he simply “has a different kind of brain” is, frankly, insane. You might as well say that there is nothing wrong with a person in agonizing pain, with terminal cancer; that they simply have “different kind of cells”.
I can understand why the parents of some of these kids hate the WrongPlanet aspies and think we should get lost. If I had such a child, I would happily tear the head off any two people in this forum to get him a cure.
So – in summary – when we speak about the appropriateness of a cure, we need to define what population we are talking about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
criss
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 322
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you The Cucumber, Penny and everyone else.
This is nice and clear and very helpful indeed.
Can you tell me The Cucumber or anyone else, do you think many aspies who hold the anti-cure position lean more naturally to a consistent life ethic generally?
For example, I am in a political movement called the Catholic worker ,and most of us take a very unusual position that often results in us being condemned form the right for our anti-war position and condemned from the left for our pro-life position?
_________________
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1762
Location: US, midmap
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Cucumber wrote: | An Autism "cure" could mean one of 3 things.
1. Prenatal genetic tests for autism, followed by selective abortions if the test is positive.
2. A drug that reorganizes an autistic brain into an NT brain
3. Therapy that can maximize the functioning level of any autistic individual.
I consider the first to be a form of genocide, since it blatantly ignores that many people with autism have made valuable contributions to society (heck Albert Einstein was developmentally disabled, even if he didn't have autism). The second also ignores the beneficial effects of autism. The third however, I wholeheartedly support since it embraces the advantages of autism and simply seeks to ensure that everyone ends up on top. |
I have to say I agree. Everyone should be able to participate to some degree in the world. Differences should be expected and respected but no one should have to deal with something that causes them complete discomfort. I like the idea of developing therapies that enable everyone to have a comfortable life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
criss
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 322
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I shall be reflecting in depth tomorrow all your contributions, I am very grateful, please keep them coming, even if you just want to rant, your rant will be invaluable to me.
One thing before I go to bed.
Who are the cure people? And what are their organizations called?
Are the cure people mostly parents of children with 'classic' autism ?
Are the cure people 'A political, in that their politics is far removed from the pro choice pro life groups?
Where does the cure people's funding come from?
In gratitude
Chris.
_________________
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4243
Location: Room 101
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="criss"]Who are the cure people? And what are their organizations called?{/quote]
Autism Speaks, Cure Autism Now, Defeat Autism Now, FAAAS, Generation Rescue.
| Quote: | | Are the cure people mostly parents of children with 'classic' autism ? |
Largely, yes. Also people who have not looked closely into the issue.
| Quote: | | Are the cure people 'A political, in that their politics is far removed from the pro choice pro life groups? |
Not sure what you mean by this.
| Quote: | | Where does the cure people's funding come from? |
They pose as charities wanting to help children and so garner donations from uninformed people who believe they are helping autistics.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
|
| Back to top |
|
krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think it is only parents of low functioning autistics that want to change their kids into being "more NT" Any parent who doesn't value the way their kid is wants to change them into being what THEY think is "better". Seems to be part of the nature of parenting. My parents had no concept of AS but were constantly doing things to make me more NT, (it didn't "take"  but they did help me make certain adjustments that have been helpful and others that just made me feel like a loser). Parents also want their kids to have a better life and realize that some things they do are going to cause them problems in life....AS or NT. What they don't seem to realize is altering one thing may have negative effect in another area. I tried to suppress my "interests" and fit in with other kids because my parents stressed having friends as being very important. They were always pushing me to develop skills in things that were more "normal" then my interests, (which were not female enough to them). I think I would have been a scientist and less depressed and miserable (at being a bad baton twirler), if just allowed to develop my own interests.
_________________
Just because one plane is flying out of formation, doesnt mean the formation is on course....R.D.Lang
Visit my crafts store
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5412685 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
