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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5163
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| there's an ad campaign out here, i think it may be nation-wide, that states that buzzed driving is still drunk driving. basically implying that any level of consumption then driving is dangerous and they imply that you'll kill someone. this obviously isn't true...why do people use such absolutist rhetoric? are they just that stupid? |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4243
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | are they just that stupid? |
Yes.
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history_of_psychiatry
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 574
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that they sound stupid, but then again it's stupid to driive under the influence of anything. Even if you are just "buzzed" off of it.
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5163
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| history_of_psychiatry wrote: | | I agree that they sound stupid, but then again it's stupid to driive under the influence of anything. Even if you are just "buzzed" off of it. |
only if you can't drive. people have different levels of being able to operate with different intoxications. such broad sweeping statements are generally stupid. the people who hurt and kill people when intoxicated are normally beyond the point of even being able to walk straight and they're normally shitty drivers when they're sober too.
i want a driver's test for me to be able to drive at a higher level of intoxication than .08. |
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 2507
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | history_of_psychiatry wrote: | | I agree that they sound stupid, but then again it's stupid to driive under the influence of anything. Even if you are just "buzzed" off of it. |
only if you can't drive. people have different levels of being able to operate with different intoxications. such broad sweeping statements are generally stupid. the people who hurt and kill people when intoxicated are normally beyond the point of even being able to walk straight and they're normally shitty drivers when they're sober too.
i want a driver's test for me to be able to drive at a higher level of intoxication than .08. |
Of course, setting the legal limit at 0.1, 0.08, or 0.05 is arbitrary. Different people will react differently to the same amount of alcohol. People who are alcoholic will probably do worse at very low blood levels (withdraw) than they would at moderate blood alcohol levels. And for many (definitely for me), a small amount of alcohol can be a stimulant, although continued consumption has predictable intoxicating effects.
On the other hand, for most people, being buzzed does mean less coordination, a shorter attention span. It may be under the legal limit, but is impairment that increases the risk of an unfortunate event. |
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Quatermass
Deranged scientist
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 17249
Location: The Crucible
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| Orwell wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | are they just that stupid? |
Yes. |
No. Intoxication is still intoxication. It impairs judgement.
And in case you are wondering what makes me so qualified, I am currently doing a thesis on drug abuse.
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People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5163
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| Quatermass wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | are they just that stupid? |
Yes. |
No. Intoxication is still intoxication. It impairs judgement.
And in case you are wondering what makes me so qualified, I am currently doing a thesis on drug abuse. |
define judgment. and intoxication is not "still intoxication" considering that everyone reacts differently.
i guess what i really don't respect is the whole egalitarian totalitarian approach to it. not everyone is the same, not everyone experiences the same reactions, not everyone copes the same way in certain situations.
it's a very wrong approach. a father knows best approach. |
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Phagocyte
Low-Functioning NT
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 1924
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that a certain level of absolutist thinking is necessary for proper regulation.
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Quatermass
Deranged scientist
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 17249
Location: The Crucible
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Quatermass wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | are they just that stupid? |
Yes. |
No. Intoxication is still intoxication. It impairs judgement.
And in case you are wondering what makes me so qualified, I am currently doing a thesis on drug abuse. |
define judgment. |
The faculty of being able to make critical distinctions and achieve a balanced viewpoint.
| skafather84 wrote: | | and intoxication is not "still intoxication" considering that everyone reacts differently. |
It promotes an altered state of consciousness. It also effects emotional capacity, not to mention intellectual capacity. It is more of a case of how much tolerance they have that affects the reactions. Well, tolerance is not quite the word I'm looking for, but I am saying that the effects are more or less the same for everyone of a drug, it's just a matter of quantity. As it is, it is safer that no-one is under the influence of any drug stronger than caffeine while driving (and even then, taking caffeine tablets in order to stay awake while driving is dangerous).
| skafather84 wrote: | i guess what i really don't respect is the whole egalitarian totalitarian approach to it. not everyone is the same, not everyone experiences the same reactions, not everyone copes the same way in certain situations.
it's a very wrong approach. a father knows best approach. |
The fact is, driving under the influence of any strong drug is tantamount to similar things. Your judgement is impaired, you don't really give a crap about anyone but yourself, and your reaction time is screwed up.
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People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5163
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| Quatermass wrote: | | The fact is, driving under the influence of any strong drug is tantamount to similar things. Your judgement is impaired, you don't really give a crap about anyone but yourself, and your reaction time is screwed up. |
except you're entirely wrong. the prohibition movement is full of this garbage. putting motives on individuals without the individuals' input. because you know better.
i'm done. you've already made your pre-judgement. |
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Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3658
Location: Pantopia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Some people simply want to drink and drive while vandalising public property, and are even proud of it when they do. These people usually end up working in the service industry, which has a high turnover and little concern for the morality (or lack thereof) of its employees. Eventually, such people get arrested and find that their employment opportunitites are even more restricted - especially when their vehicles are impounded and their licences to drive are revoked. Of course, for such people, it is never their fault - they always seem to find someone else to blame for their own screw-ups.
Others know better, behave accordingly, and usually have better educations and higher-paying jobs, as well. These people form the backbone of society and have greater ethical sense and higher moral standards. They are also paid more than your average drunken vandal. Yet, they are derided for their integrity and civic responsibility. And why might this be?
Jealousy, perhaps. Some lager-swilling bloke living in a one-up flat while on the dole sees a well-dressed fellow in a Mercedes pull into a gated community and feels ... what? Snubbed? Ignored? Worthless?
Maybe the reason is shame. How could a punk reaking of stale urine and sour beer ever bring himself to stand with a man who wears a three-piece suit and even hope to be noticed? Not bloody likely, I'm sure.
Maybe it's a false sense of pride ... "Oh, look at him! Prostituting himself for what? A fine car, a fancy house, and a well-paying job? PFFT! I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints..."
Buzzed driving is drunk driving. Get caught driving while "buzzed" and risk losing your car, your license to drive, and your job. Deal with it, or drive only while sober.
And it's easy to spot a "buzzed" driver. They're the ones weaving into other lanes, or who take several seconds to notice that the traffic light has changed, or who become impatient with speed limits, or who ignore stop signs and turn signals; they're the ones who cause accidents by tailgating, cutting people off, or making turns and lane-changes without even looking - all the while blaming others and taking no responsibility for themselves.
They are the ones who will soon be riding public transportation, a bicycle, or just plain walking to get anywhere. That is, if they don't wrap their cars around a tree or bridge abutement.
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The leaders of the American automobile industry have been amazingly consistent in their management philosophy, in that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. |
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Quatermass
Deranged scientist
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 17249
Location: The Crucible
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | Quatermass wrote: | | The fact is, driving under the influence of any strong drug is tantamount to similar things. Your judgement is impaired, you don't really give a crap about anyone but yourself, and your reaction time is screwed up. |
except you're entirely wrong. the prohibition movement is full of this garbage. putting motives on individuals without the individuals' input. because you know better.
i'm done. you've already made your pre-judgement. |
Because I have the background in neurobiology, and how drugs affect it. You do not. I do not put motives on people, just what colours their motives. There is a distinction.
Do a bit of reading about the ventral tegmental area of the brain, along with the nucleus accumbens, and how all that figures into drug abuse.
This paper is a good start. It's in English (despite the Polish origins).
http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2001/4_303.pdf
While that is no answer to the whole 'impaired judgement' issue of drivers, it will help you understand that drugs do influence behaviour, particularly those relating to rewards. I'll look for more specific examples for driving later.
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People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! |
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MR
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 392
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: buzzed driving is NOT drunk driving |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | there's an ad campaign out here, i think it may be nation-wide, that states that buzzed driving is still drunk driving. basically implying that any level of consumption then driving is dangerous and they imply that you'll kill someone. this obviously isn't true...why do people use such absolutist rhetoric? are they just that stupid? |
I disagree. It doesn't say any level of alcohol in the blood is too much for driving. It says if it's enough alcohol for a buzz, it's too much for driving. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 5163
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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what a shocking response from fnord.
(/sarcasm)
explain george w bush's life then, fnord. he's been busted numerous times for drunk driving and posession of very serious drugs.
laws are arbitrary. |
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Quatermass
Deranged scientist
Joined: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 17249
Location: The Crucible
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | what a shocking response from fnord.
(/sarcasm)
explain george w bush's life then, fnord. he's been busted numerous times for drunk driving and posession of very serious drugs.
laws are arbitrary. |
Sad, but true. But you people elected him. Or else stayed away from polls and LET him be elected. Best thing about Australia, really. You HAVE to vote.
Laws are very arbitrary. Only recently, a notorious pedophile (notorious in Queensland) called Dennis Ferguson got released, and a judge reckons he won't get a fair trial for another offence he committed. This same judge gave a man 8 weeks for sexually abusing his daughter. I (and a few others) are of the opinion that the judge is a pedophile himself, or else soft in the head.
Anyway, back on track...
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People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! |
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