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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2858
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: 1-on-1 vs. other situations and functioning label |
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Tell me if you experienced similar.
Apparently, I am generally awesome in 1-on-1 conversations if these go along the lines authority-me or professional-me or therapist-me. Well, it's certainly a total alien situation that I do not encounter like this in everyday life.
I can't be the only one who gets labelled 'utmost hf AS' and 'can't possibly have these symptoms etc.', because of the way I appear in certain 1-on-1 situations. I'd feel complimented, if I cared about compliments.
Most people in everyday life think I'm mentally challenged in some way. I hate it when I'm told I'm exaggerating or that they can't possibly imagine that someone would think I'm mentally challenged. Do professionals and therapists think I am lying?
Wow, big deal, I can relate to some issues some so-labelled 'lf people' have. I shouldn't? I won't pretend I can relate much to the few hf AS people I talked to personally.
Please someone tell me; why is a functioning label getting in a person's way? I will hate the functioning label from now on.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett
Last edited by Sora on Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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skeeterhawk
Raven
Joined: Feb 09, 2008
Age: 61
Posts: 116
Location: Southeast
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds exactly like my experience. One-on-one is OK and sometimes fantastic. People are impressed with my intelligence and sensitivity. One-on-many is equivocal. Many=on-many and I am lost and people are wondering why I am so totally clueless. Eye-rolls happen all around me. Then they are wondering why I seem to talk only with a couple of people at parties!
I have tried to get my mind around this by using the mantra that "people don't realize how complicated all this is." It's not all or nothing but a hard to predict, sometimes thing. HF?? I don't really know what this means after all. |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's a very common autistic trait to perform well in some 'typical' situations and not others -- because various situations are all engineered (consciously or not) with non-autistic people's abilities in mind, and we have a totally different profile of abilities that is not taken into account, and that makes us able to do some things they do as well as they can, some things better, some things worse, generally. (Which things will depend on the person.)
Which is one reason functioning labels in any overall sense make no sense. It's also one reason that autistic people are consistently over-estimated in some situations and under-estimated in others.
I have had a lot of those experiences before -- generally some people will refuse to believe my difficulties, and others will refuse to believe my strengths.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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MissConstrue
~Age of Aquarius~
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 11893
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like some of the experiences I've encountered only it wasn't so much the spectrum but just the AS itself.
When I'd bring it up with even doctors, some of them had no idea what I was talking about and you'd think they would. I've also been better at one on one conversations and terrible at the small stuff like small talk. I've even had people ask me what AS was after telling them. Everytime I'd bring it up, for the most part they'd "compliment" me on how I wasn't coming off as someone with Autism at all. How annoying that can be and to put a label even on autism as if people were so suppose to be or act particular way.
Trouble is, Autism, HF AS, and all the other different spectrums pertaining of it, are more complicated than fitting into a neat little perfect package. Not everyone is going to fit within a certain stereotype of it. The only recognizable aspect of it can be those annoying social quirks which can rub off the wrong way to some people.
I used to have people tell me how slow I was because I was terrible at presentations, yet I'd exceed at subjects they had difficulty in. Some of these same people who called me slow, I had to tutor. I think no matter what, you're always going to get a label put on you regardless of AS or not. We live in a very social society with of course the pressures to be "socially normal." I think you'll find even those without AS can't fit into that particular label either.
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Oh you can't help that. We're all mad here.
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6thSin:Envy |
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Tortuga
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Does talking to them help you? If you do not get a benefit from therapy sessions, then I would discontinue them. |
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liloleme
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Age: 41
Posts: 413
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I took my autisic daughter to the peditrician recently. We ended up seeing another doctor in the practice that was not her usual doctor. She says to me "I see Madeline has been diagnosed with Autism?"
I say "yes"
She looks at Maddy, shakes her head and says "does she carry a certain object around with her?"
I say "No"
She looks at her again and says "Well I think It would be hard to make that Autism diagnosis right now?"
UHHHHHH, OK
See, If we would just carry around a certain object then no one would question us  . <----major sarcasm |
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VisualVox
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jun 21, 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Out there.... in here...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have the same issue with doctors and therapists. I've been dismissed and brushed off and told I'm absolutely fine -- what's the problem? -- despite the fact that *something* has been causing me to jump from job to job to job to job over the past 20 years, and my AS traits alienate and confuse and complicate my interactions with everyone in "normal" circumstances... and the degree to which I'm withdrawn and unable to interact with everyone else *like everyone else* has resulted in serious health issues that have gone undiagnosed and untreated for decades, and I'm just now coming to terms with them (thanks, in large part, to the help of a therapist who incidentally thinks I'm just 'highly sensitive' -- If only she knew!)
I have begun to suspect that doctors' and therapists' offices are set up to put NT people "out of their element" -- in a small, contained place where they are unable to fall back on social niceties and familiar surroundings... so they can better identify the irregularities of their lives for professionals trained to view them in unusual circumstances.
But those of us on the spectrum are actually IN our element(!) in those kinds of closed spaces, where there is only a chair and a desk and maybe some medical equipment.
So, the usual techniques for extracting unusual information out of usual people is totally lost on us and pointless to pursue.
Someone needs to tell the therapeutic/medical establishment about this. Maybe I'll write a white paper...
Anyway, my therapist has actually helped me a great deal, even if she is a bit clueless. She's been "in the business" for an awful long time, and she's seen it all, so I have less anxiety about shocking her (which has a chilling effect on my willingness to talk about my life). And she's incredibly kind and good-hearted, which matters to me a great deal. Plus, she's retiring at the end of this year, so I'll be moving on to an AS-related therapist at that time. I'll miss my current therapist, but it will be good to talk to someone who knows about this stuff.
But I've digressed. My point is that doctors and therapists probably use the wrong forum to get us to reveal information or find out what's really going on under the surface. And they should educate themselves about us AS folks, if they intend to serve our population (I'm assuming they do, as they took a oath to do so).
It might be a good idea to take some material with you, the next time you pay them a visit, so they don't unwittingly do damage.
Sometimes they really do. We can laugh it off or try to take it with a grain of salt, but it can be dangerous, from where I'm sitting. |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2858
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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The autism therapist I see is really good.
It's just with some issues, I get through to nobody. Especially, if they can see only 1 side about me.
I sometimes wonder if other people are more 1-dimensional than me. My behaviour changes drastically depending on where I am, who I am with etc.
If I present splendid speech to one person - but nonsense or no speech to another, both cannot believe the other situation is real.
In some situations I don't mind the extreme sensory input. I appear calm and relaxed. At another moment, I go raving mad (like, destruction spree usually), when certain details are changed.
Absolutely no stims versus lots of stims. People either think it means I have none nor that I can't ever control most.
Yes... the fluctuation and the uneven profile of abilities just seems to make overall function labels worthless indeed.
I mean, what do they call it if an 'lf' kid learns to swim, ride a bike, play some sports before others do? Luck?
The teacher who'll just see a kid he can't teach anything but not the kid who has fun and does so well at sports will never believe anything but the 'lf' label. Vice versa, the trainer probably will have a hard time believing the kid does horribly at school.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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GuyTypingOnComputer
Raven
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can relate as well to certain 1 on 1 communications. With 2 or more people, social skills come more into play.
If the interaction requires social navigation or social posturing, then I get lost fairly quickly. A structured communication with clear social roles and expectations works best for me--particularly if I had the opportunity to prepare for the event. However, even as a 1-on-1 relationship evolves, problems creep in again as greater emphasis is placed on understanding the other person and doing things to maintain the relationship (things that are natural for an NT but require great energy and effort on my part like staying in touch). |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2822
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sora wrote: |
It's just with some issues, I get through to nobody. Especially, if they can see only 1 side about me.
I sometimes wonder if other people are more 1-dimensional than me. My behaviour changes drastically depending on where I am, who I am with etc. |
You are not alone, Serial Killers have the same problem. All the neighbors say what nice ordinary people they are.
We are socially blind, hence grew up acting, which we can see, but they never considered that.
One on one, we have a good act, for we can read one person, and play to them.
In groups there is this all way exchange, and we get lost.
Talking with three therapists at the same time, we would seem to change when responding to one, then another, then another. we see the trees, but not the forest.
A wiskey priest, a lesbian mud wressler, a cowboy, and a hockey player meet an Aspie, they will form a group and agree the Aspie has a problem.
Three Aspies go in a room, what are the thinking? All are looking at the empty corner, thinking if they should move to it.
When the main issue is social, how can they not understand that one on one is not a social situation?
The ordinary world can only see our skin. The closest they can come to our thought process is, it is different. One of us is not consistantly different, and all of us are different. They have one common point of view.
Our highest and best use would be one on one with an alien species.
If we have many ways, and they have one, and all work, who is mentally challenged?
I can and can not relate to others like myself. We may have overlapping traits, but their's are on Tuesday, and I do Friday. We never quite meet. We have a range of exclusive traits, not shared, but accepted.
I am the same as Sora, except, sex, three times her age, living far apart, raised in very different cultures, we are the same because even with all that, we have the same problems with the world.
If we have this much spread on the meaning of what we know exists, how hard it must be for an outsider. We are as close as, Sora speaks German, and I own a German motorcycle, I shop ebay Germany, and know motorcycle parts in German. I can understand "Das Reparaturanleitung". I speak Metric, and understand the tech of it. We could not hold a simple conversation.
The DSM is not a repair manual, it is barely a discription of a motorcycle, by a non-rider, and the world has few mechanics.
Autism has two wheels, except for some who have three.
Autism does not stay on paved roads, and can wander on cow paths.
Autism can run very slow, move through forests where there are no trails, or run 160 KPH on the Autobahn.
Autism is not social, most ride solo.
A happy Autistic has bugs on his teeth.
Autistics wear boots, Kevlar gloves, amored jackets, and helmets.
Autism is different, and seems dangerous.
When the therapist is a soccor mom who drives an SUV, we have a culture problem.
If they see me in a suit, they think one way, if on the bike, very different.
We need an owners group, for, if you have to ask, you would never understand. |
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KingdomOfRats
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 2675
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Sora,
have ever told them what think about their treatment?
the NAS res.support staff am have do not even use the functioning labels on all their service users.
they believe others relie on them too much and unfairly base entire ability on them,often over or under estimating.
am think this is exactly how it should work everywhere,as it forces specialists,care workers etc to look further rather than just the basic functioning level.
am think functioning levels only really work in the autistic community,where residential placement,support,benefits etc isn't based/decided here,and autists are mostly not here to judge what each other goes through.
the functioning levels are just quick examples? of what the different autism experiences are,they could never describe all of the autism experience,all of what an autist goes through etc they dont even recognise splinter skills.
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[LFAutie]
["Even through the darkest days, this fire burns...always"-Killswitch Engage]
.:The residential autist:.
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Whilst it's common for people with Autism/Asperger's to interact well in a one on one professional/mechanical setting, I still see that there must be a reason for why professionals say you're ok in said environment. I'm assuming that it's because there are people with Autism/Asperger's who can't interact well at all in any setting, [or they can't interact in a professional setting, but they do better in a group situation for to them it's not as "personal", which leads to the same problem, just reversed].
I'm a proponent of professionals calling in someone that the patient [most likely] doesn't know, and has them start up a social and relatively meaningless/unexpected conversation with the patient; this will be quite telling of one's level of social impairment.
I had a professional at an Autism clinic say I interact well socially for I could talk to her in a one on one setting about myself and my disorder, so I know what it's like to have someone say such, especially when talking to someone in a one on one and professional setting that's pre-planned can't be compared to spontaneous socializing. I know she was pointing out that I could and can talk in such a way, and it's good to focus on strengths, but life isn't a one on one professional setting, so said strength is relatively meaningless overall. Perhaps, she was just trying to make me feel better, or perhaps she was comparing me to others she sees with the disorder; I would have asked for her to clarify, but I couldn't due to certain things (the whole, not being able to talk about which I haven't thought of beforehand thingy).
Functioning labels are silly, including terms like "severe", "profound" and "mild", especially when they're only looking at a single topic and/or superficial aspects of life. My father would probably be seen as "mild", but he has greater deficits in many areas than I do, and I'm seen as "severe" compared to him. |
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 3044
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I wind up dealing fine one on one, because I can keep in my mind the 'frame of reference' for that one person. What subjects to approach, what to avoid, it can be done.
With 2 people at the same time, it's a geometric increase. I have to remember the interactions of who knows what, what subjects can be discussed in common, and 'a' can know subject 'x', but 'b' cannot.
Sounds really cut and dried, but that's how my noggin works... |
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Tortuga
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sora wrote: | I sometimes wonder if other people are more 1-dimensional than me. My behaviour changes drastically depending on where I am, who I am with etc.
If I present splendid speech to one person - but nonsense or no speech to another, both cannot believe the other situation is real.
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I've found that ASD is complicated. My son is like you describe. In one situation, he might be all there and keeping with all that's going on around him. Then, other times, it's a disaster. People that don't know him expect him to be the same all the time. If they see him in a good moment, they can't imagine the lows he experiences. In that respect, I believe people who are high on the spectrum have it difficult. The expectation is that you should be able to be at your best all the time. That's simply not possible for anyone.
You should tell yourself that it's normal and acceptable for you to be variable. If you feel awkward in one situation, you won't in an another. No one else needs to understand this about you as long as you are comfortable with yourself. |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| liloleme wrote: | | See, If we would just carry around a certain object then no one would question us . <----major sarcasm |
Depends on what object we carried, and in what manner, of course. I've noticed that some things I carry will be seen as really really weird, some just a bit weird, and some normal, even if I'm carrying them all for the same reason.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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