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Lepidoptera
Raven
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 103
Location: Northern California
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: Typical Aspie Student? |
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Due to another post, I came across this article:
http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/07/07/yoder
I'm wondering what any of you think about "Fred." Do you think he is an AS person or perhaps does he tend towards more classically autistic?
I'm trying to learn a little more here and would be interested in reading any of your opinions.
Thanks! |
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windscar15
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 431
Location: San Jose, California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| sounds like he has a lot to do and he doesn't want to have to waste his time waiting for people to get on the ball, I'm like that. |
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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The article was interesting but I found many of the responses to it even more insightful. I didn't find anything that was particularly conclusive as to the individuals neurology. He maybe on the spectrum but he certainly did not represent my college experience or interaction with teachers. He may have other learning disability or psychological issue. We often find what we are looking for and this teacher appeared to have reached a conclusion and then researched to verify it .
Personally, I found school easy, in most respects. There were some "glitches" , including not turning papers in on time because I procrastinated or over researched and couldn't figure out what to leave out...but I found test taking the easiest part, even with some memory problems. If I had not had a few professors who allowed me extra time, even with no DX, I would had scored much lower. If they had know about my dyslexia causing difficulty in my "seeing" and correcting spelling errors, my grades would have been higher, (I was often marked from A to B, based on spelling). Thank goodness for computers and spell check, that surely helps many current students.
What is the individuals DX.....someone who really desired to succeed and understand and was willing to devote his energy to that purpose inspite of whatever difficulty..... hardly sounds like a disability  .
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2858
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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How is he behaving oddly?
I wouldn't send a professor that many mails, unless I wanted to succeed badly. If I want something badly, I wouldn't care about causing confusion to others by not abiding to social rules though.
He's taking a class he took before... that's odd. But I don't really know about American colleges.
I think he sounds pretty, well, normal?
I'm missing the odd here, I guess.
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northern_light_girl
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Aspie Student? |
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| Lepidoptera wrote: | Due to another post, I came across this article:
http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/07/07/yoder
I'm wondering what any of you think about "Fred." Do you think he is an AS person or perhaps does he tend towards more classically autistic?
I'm trying to learn a little more here and would be interested in reading any of your opinions.
Thanks! |
First of all, I find it appaling that a teacher/professor would even venture to write such an "article" (writing about AS although he thinks he has had no exposure to it before seeing Fred). You can't first notice something weird...then look it up...then assume (make a personal judgement) that it may be a certain condition etc then find more evidence that indeed it is. How do we know this otherwise well-intended professor was indeed a good judge of character and behaviour? We see Fred thorugh his eyes only. This professor is not a trained psychologist, not a parent, not an AS person... in short, does not have LONG-TERM exposure to this.
IMO, Fred does not have AS, at least not what I understand AS to mean! Wow, I was reading the article and I was like...what AS? Never heard that an AS person would wear gloves like that! Or the same jacket or colors etc..Someone here mentioned OCD..I don't know. I wouldn't ever venture to guess what Fred had.
Then Fred's many e-mails...that's more like some sort of fixation than anything else. What does AS have to do with this? From what I understand, AS is not known for sending tons of email to people:) Y'all correct me if I'm wrong. And AS people tend to stay away from social contact (office hours etc).
That university should have contacted Fred's parents or talked him into being assessed and should have given hm some type of help (in this sense, what the professor attempted to do was good -helping a student).
So no, this is not typical AS student behaviour imo! To me, Fred sounded like he could have had some autistic traits (see, I'm making a judgement, not comfortable with that!) mixed with other problems. And If I took something valuable from the article, it is that, while trying to help and understand others, we should not assume we know what they have. They may have something else or a mix of things.
Anyway, I think the professor did go above and beyond to understand this student and accomodate his ..problem. Which is something not many professors or teachers do. Mybe his article should have been more like "what to do when meeting this type of challenging student"..w/out trying to be a psychologyst and actually name the problem.
Last edited by northern_light_girl on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 3853
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Then Fred's many e-mails...that's more like stalking and fixation that anything else. What does AS have to do with this? From what I understand, AS is not known for sending tons of email to people:) Y'all correct me if I'm wrong. And AS people tend to stay away from social contact (office hours etc). |
Actually some aspies do get fixated on people. They keep emailing someone or calling someone. I'd say it's a obsessive-compulsive thing and its very common in us. Some aspies do do that and they have been accused of stalking because of it. What I quoted above might be offensive to some aspies on here because they have done that sort of thing. I have an aspie friend here who does it so I know not to ever give her my phone number or I'd be getting constant interruptions in my daily life. She does it because she has no one to talk to about her obsessions so don't say aspies don't send tons of email to people. Yes she emailed her teacher a lot too, then she eventually changed her email. I guess it's part of lacking social skills because they do not know where to draw the line in calling or emailing someone. I had the same problem in sixth grade and I had phone phobia ever since. I am afraid of calling people a lot or else I might find the police on my doorstep. That's another reason why I hate phones and don't call people much. But I did call my ex a lot back when we first met and he didn't mind it. That's because I got comfortable so I fit it into my routine and I got over the phobia for that time.
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Last edited by Spokane_Girl on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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northern_light_girl
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | Then Fred's many e-mails...that's more like stalking and fixation that anything else. What does AS have to do with this? From what I understand, AS is not known for sending tons of email to people:) Y'all correct me if I'm wrong. And AS people tend to stay away from social contact (office hours etc).
Actually some aspies do get fixated on people. They keep emailing someone or calling someone. I'd say it's a obsessive-compulsive thing and its very common in us. Some aspies do do that and they have been accused of stalking because of it. What I quoted above might be offensive to some aspies on here because they have done that sort of thing. I have an aspie friend here who does it so I know not to ever give her my phone number or I'd be getting constant interruptions in my daily life. She does it because she has no one to talk to about her obsessions so don't say aspies don't send tons of email to people. Yes she emailed her teacher a lot too, then she eventually changed her email. I guess it's part of lacking social skills because they do not know where to draw the line in calling or emailing someone. I had the same problem in sixth grade and I had phone phobia ever since. I am afraid of calling people a lot or else I might find the police on my doorstep. That's another reason why I hate phones and don't call people much. But I did call my ex a lot back when we first met and he didn't mind it. That's because I got comfortable so I fit it into my routine and I got over the phobia for that time. |
Spokane_grl, I was still editing my post and I noticed yours already. That's why this forum is helpful..we all get educated about things we did not know about. So your point of view is extremely important ...because you educated me on a fact I didn;t really know..that some Aspies would tend to become fixated like that (or don't even know it's not socially accepted to e-mail people a lot and do it b/c they think it's ok). Please everyone, don't take offence at MY post...if you don't agree, just educate me on why you don't agree. I am happy to admit when I am wrong 
Good day to y'all  |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 3853
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I hope I didn't sound too harsh in my post. I did have the angry face in there but decided to take it out because I figured that be too harsh since you did say to correct you if you are wrong. Takes me over a few minutes to make posts that long because I am thinking real hard and reading it over and over and what to say and I take things out or add things in.
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A place to check for the real truth in politics. |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2858
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Aspie Student? |
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Ah, I took a break while writing. So I probably didn't catch all recent changes/replies.
| northern_light_girl wrote: | | Never heard that an AS person would wear gloves like that! |
It's odd (I'd freak out about having to wear gloves), but I know a girl who does. Just for her AS. To stop the constant change of tactile input and to avoid certain textures completely. It would freak me out, personally. But yeah, she's clever and all, so if it helps her, that's what she should go for.
| northern_light_girl wrote: |
Then Fred's many e-mails...that's more like stalking and fixation that anything else. What does AS have to do with this? From what I understand, AS is not known for sending tons of email to people:) Y'all correct me if I'm wrong. And AS people tend to stay away from social contact (office hours etc). |
To stay away from social interaction would be a personality trait though. I hate to stay away from social interaction, unless the sensory input is killing me (figuratively speaking).
Fred's 'stalking' could be easily explained by the inability to recognise how his relationship with other people, including this professor should be. How many emails are appropriate to send, what is appropriate to ask. He just asks what is necessary.
Fred treats the professor in a way that does not reflect a distant student-professor relationship. He's almost going pals with the professor, which is horribly inappropriate.
Fred also searches for reassurance. I think that is interesting. That's actually a rather typical occurrence for autistic children. More visible in a constant repetition of a certain conversation or question that the parents absolutely must go by to keep the child calm. There's anxiety in that maybe. Sometimes just language development even. Depends on the case.
It is something to keep an eye on though, I think. It could be just stalking, in a mild form and because of trivial reasons, after all. It may or may not be AS, too little information to go by.
| northern_light_girl wrote: |
So no, this is not typical AS student behaviour at all! I'd say more typical would be if he were a shy, introverted, above-average intelligent student (above B) who kept to himself, tried to blend into the crowd and didn't talk in class. AS, imo, is easily confused with NT behaviour; it's very close...Fred's behaviour was really NOT at the high-functioning end of the spectrum (if he was on the spectrum he'd be more on the mid to low..but again, some of his actions may mean he had something else). |
I wouldn't say it like that. AS is partly inappropriate social behaviour.
Which does indeed result in drawing away from social interaction often. Many people here on WP report it after all. But not all people do that as a result. Same goes for trying to blend in. Some of the noisiest people have AS, like, they try to answer all questions in class, because they can't understand that the students are of any importance. And they just love talking and being in contact with others too. I know a little guy who's non-verbal but very sweet and lovely with everybody.
AS is a cluster of symptoms right now, not a certain personality style.
And functioning-level cannot be determined by what is described in this article. Fred was obviously very verbal, showed up for each of his classes, could attend alone, managed his work, did average academically etc. It's not enough to determine if there is something up with him or not.
I was never shutting up, very annoying, extroverted, not trying to blend in until I knew of AS and my giftedness resulted in Ds and Es and Fs. Which is why some aspies personally told me I couldn't be autistic (the extroverted part seemingly)... I'm now very sensitive about this as a result.
In the end, nobody knows if Fred has AS.
He description in incomplete and thus fits a lot of things, currently including Asperger's.
It wouldn't be atypical to be AS and appear like this to the uneducated eye. But there just way too little information to consider this Fred-person AS or anything else.
He could be just eccentric for all the readers know. Or neglected. Or autistic. Or hypersensitive and extremely empathic (and thus inappropriate).
Another thing is that anyone can be described as severely odd. The observer isn't objective and can only interpret what he sees. Maybe Fred is barely noticeable to all others and thought of as average.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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northern_light_girl
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Aspie Student? |
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| Sora wrote: | Ah, I took a break while writing. So I probably didn't catch all recent changes/replies.
| northern_light_girl wrote: | | Never heard that an AS person would wear gloves like that! |
It's odd (I'd freak out about having to wear gloves), but I know a girl who does. Just for her AS. To stop the constant change of tactile input and to avoid certain textures completely. It would freak me out, personally. But yeah, she's clever and all, so if it helps her, that's what she should go for.
| northern_light_girl wrote: |
Then Fred's many e-mails...that's more like stalking and fixation that anything else. What does AS have to do with this? From what I understand, AS is not known for sending tons of email to people:) Y'all correct me if I'm wrong. And AS people tend to stay away from social contact (office hours etc). |
To stay away from social interaction would be a personality trait though. I hate to stay away from social interaction, unless the sensory input is killing me (figuratively speaking).
Fred's 'stalking' could be easily explained by the inability to recognise how his relationship with other people, including this professor should be. How many emails are appropriate to send, what is appropriate to ask. He just asks what is necessary.
Fred treats the professor in a way that does not reflect a distant student-professor relationship. He's almost going pals with the professor, which is horribly inappropriate.
Fred also searches for reassurance. I think that is interesting. That's actually a rather typical occurrence for autistic children. More visible in a constant repetition of a certain conversation or question that the parents absolutely must go by to keep the child calm. There's anxiety in that maybe. Sometimes just language development even. Depends on the case.
It is something to keep an eye on though, I think. It could be just stalking, in a mild form and because of trivial reasons, after all. It may or may not be AS, too little information to go by.
| northern_light_girl wrote: |
So no, this is not typical AS student behaviour at all! I'd say more typical would be if he were a shy, introverted, above-average intelligent student (above B) who kept to himself, tried to blend into the crowd and didn't talk in class. AS, imo, is easily confused with NT behaviour; it's very close...Fred's behaviour was really NOT at the high-functioning end of the spectrum (if he was on the spectrum he'd be more on the mid to low..but again, some of his actions may mean he had something else). |
I wouldn't say it like that. AS is partly inappropriate social behaviour.
Which does indeed result in drawing away from social interaction often. Many people here on WP report it after all. But not all people do that as a result. Same goes for trying to blend in. Some of the noisiest people have AS, like, they try to answer all questions in class, because they can't understand that the students are of any importance. And they just love talking and being in contact with others too. I know a little guy who's non-verbal but very sweet and lovely with everybody.
AS is a cluster of symptoms right now, not a certain personality style.
And functioning-level cannot be determined by what is described in this article. Fred was obviously very verbal, showed up for each of his classes, could attend alone, managed his work, did average academically etc. It's not enough to determine if there is something up with him or not.
I was never shutting up, very annoying, extroverted, not trying to blend in until I knew of AS and my giftedness resulted in Ds and Es and Fs. Which is why some aspies personally told me I couldn't be autistic (the extroverted part seemingly)... I'm now very sensitive about this as a result.
In the end, nobody knows if Fred has AS.
He description in incomplete and thus fits a lot of things, currently including Asperger's.
It wouldn't be atypical to be AS and appear like this to the uneducated eye. But there just way too little information to consider this Fred-person AS or anything else.
He could be just eccentric for all the readers know. Or neglected. Or autistic. Or hypersensitive and extremely empathic (and thus inappropriate).
Another thing is that anyone can be described as severely odd. The observer isn't objective and can only interpret what he sees. Maybe Fred is barely noticeable to all others and thought of as average. |
Excellent post, Sora! Yes, I find myself agreeing with what you elegantly and calmly explain for us all. Reading your post, I think that what I know about AS, autism, the spectrum is in reality not that much...there's a lot to learn Thanks. |
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Jayman
Sea Gull
Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| No, he seems more like a dumb jerk to me. |
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srriv345
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 19, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 441
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Aquamarine_Kitty
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 249
Location: California, USA, Universe #97940A
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jayman wrote: | | No, he seems more like a dumb jerk to me. |
Can someone please elaborate on this?
I am a lot like this with my professors. What makes him, and possibly me, a dumb jerk?
BTW, he does have a lot of Aspie-like traits, but I would have to know a lot more about his social and communication skills before making any assumptions of anything on the Spectrum. |
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