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ghostpawn
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 16, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 40
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: empathy vs sympathy (NTs please read) |
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There's a lot of confusion surrounding "lack of empathy", and I think it stems from people equating empathy with sympathy. No, they're not the same thing.
Empathy (wikipedia)
In short, empathy is knowing/recognizing how others feel, whereas sympathy is sharing their feelings once one knows of them.
Sociopaths have empathy but not sympathy. They know you're in pain, they just don't care.
Aspies, for various reasons, are often unaware of how others feel, and may not know what do to even once clued in, but they care as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) as anyone else. In fact, older aspies are often very sensitive about the pain of others because they've been through so much themselves.
Does this make any sense?
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malithion2
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 209
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Makes perfect sense to me, I lack severely in both areas and this kinda brought some understanding to that. |
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Programmer
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: empathy vs sympathy (NTs please read) |
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| ghostpawn wrote: | | There's a lot of confusion surrounding "lack of empathy", and I think it stems from people equating empathy with sympathy. No, they're not the same thing. |
One of the interesting thing about NTs and the no empathy diagnosis is: It is solely NT vs Aspie. ie Aspie's have no empathy for NTs. Anyone who is married to an NT will know very quickly that NTs have no empathy for Aspies. It is a bidirectional thing.
I have pointed that out to my wife several times and she still thinks she knows what our Aspie boys are thinking. She invariably doesn't.
ttys |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 1348
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: empathy vs sympathy (NTs please read) |
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| ghostpawn wrote: | There's a lot of confusion surrounding "lack of empathy", and I think it stems from people equating empathy with sympathy. No, they're not the same thing.
Empathy (wikipedia)
In short, empathy is knowing/recognizing how others feel, whereas sympathy is sharing their feelings once one knows of them.
Sociopaths have empathy but not sympathy. They know you're in pain, they just don't care.
Aspies, for various reasons, are often unaware of how others feel, and may not know what do to even once clued in, but they care as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) as anyone else. In fact, older aspies are often very sensitive about the pain of others because they've been through so much themselves.
Does this make any sense? |
you're aware that the wiki article you linked describes empathy as "the ability to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself." . . right? |
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Angnix
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 02, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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This is one of the things I'm not sure about... I think I know how people are feeling, but I've been told I don't act very ssympathetic at all, like I don't care when I do.
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gbollard
cosmic hobo
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3269
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ghostpawn wrote: | | Aspies, for various reasons, are often unaware of how others feel, and may not know what do to even once clued in, but they care as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) as anyone else. |
That's a fairly good summing up, though nothing is 100% accurate all the time.
I discussed in another post how I can feel a lot of empathy for something silly, like the CGI creation of Stuart Little, but can't often feel it in real life when I hear a news story, or when my wife tells me about something that happened to her.
For me, there's something about seeing the whole picture that's important. Even then, sometimes others get hurt by things that wouldn't hurt me at all, so it's hard to empathise.
As far as caring expression (sympathy)... I'd do what I could if only I knew what to do.
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http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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anthonylee
Raven
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: Empathy vs. sympathy (NTs please read) |
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As a middle aged Aspie, I often do have sympathy for people when they are going through what I have gone through, especially younger aspies. Empathy, I am still working on....what empathy I do have takes a great deal of effort and time when getting to know some one. As far as psychopaths  are concerned the are the exact opposite in many ways to aspies and will exploit anyone given the chance, especially an aspie! I have no sympathy for psychopaths...the most evil of mankind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1461
Location: North West United States
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
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There’s a difference between being able to intuit other people’s mental states and having empathy. Being able to read others’ mental states is necessary for experiencing empathy, but it isn’t sufficient. I don’t think psychopaths have empathy because if they did it would give them a strong motivation not to harm their victims. If someone experiences someone else’s emotion they will not be motivated to harm that person because harming others implies experiencing an unpleasant emotion yourself.
Psychopaths are evil because they don't experience any negative feelings from hurting people even though they are often adept at reading people. |
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_BRI_
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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THAT'S 100% TRUE!
People believe we do not care about people because we are bound to objects and inner thoughts.
That's so untrue... sociopaths are accurate empathizers and they use it to harm, they don't care about it. |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2858
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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This is quite rude...
I could say aspies are evil and the worst of mankind because they don't have social intuition and could thus hurt others. Some do by the way. Perfectly hf AS and not wanting to see reason that they're not the king of the world.
Personalities differ always.
Don't say 'psychopaths are evil' just for the inability to feel with others.
hat would mean all people on this planet without the ability to feel emotional compassion = evil. Without an exception = all evil. Just because they have trouble or don't feel compassion!
That's stereotyping.
Not all psychopaths/sociopaths are perfect empathisers either. There are quite many who're horrible at that social interaction too.
Some psychopaths do 'evil' things such as committing crimes, having no respect for life and thus hurting others etc. and I strongly dislike such people. No respect for their person from me. I stand firm by that.
But just the inability to feel compassion doesn't make you a criminal or 'evil'. It doesn't mean you commit crimes or try to hurt others and have no respect for them.
Just like the inability to empathise does not make you an ignorant robot rather than a person, obviously.
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MR
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 392
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| marshall wrote: | | I don’t think psychopaths have empathy because if they did it would give them a strong motivation not to harm their victims. |
No, that's what makes them psychopaths. They know how the other person feels (empathy, by one definition, anyway), but they have no compassion. Instead, they get off in it. Someone else feeling bad makes them feel good.
I'm thinking you are understanding the word empathy differently than it's being used here. It's often understood to pretty much mean the same thing as compassion. And generally they go together.
Anyway, what makes the psychopaths so revolting to everyone else is that they do understand others feelings, and they delight in others hurt.
Which is different than those folks who just don't realize there's something to be compassionate about it.
Anyway, I think Ghostpawn made a good point. The lack of empathy that we here tend to have, it's a just not understanding the other's perspective, not understanding how the other person feels.
It's not that we know the other person is hurting and don't care. It's that we don't know they are hurting. Or (though this is different than lack of empathy, though may come across the same) we know they are hurting, and we care, but we don't know what to do about it. So we look to others like we don't care. |
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Reodor_Felgen
Counting down till Castro bites the dust
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 1633
Location: Aspies for Freedom
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Re: empathy vs sympathy (NTs please read) |
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| ghostpawn wrote: | There's a lot of confusion surrounding "lack of empathy", and I think it stems from people equating empathy with sympathy. No, they're not the same thing.
Empathy (wikipedia)
In short, empathy is knowing/recognizing how others feel, whereas sympathy is sharing their feelings once one knows of them.
Sociopaths have empathy but not sympathy. They know you're in pain, they just don't care.
Aspies, for various reasons, are often unaware of how others feel, and may not know what do to even once clued in, but they care as much (sometimes more, sometimes less) as anyone else. In fact, older aspies are often very sensitive about the pain of others because they've been through so much themselves.
Does this make any sense? |
A great explanation! I don't empatize much better with other aspies than with NTs, though...
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1461
Location: North West United States
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Sympathy = caring about what other people feel
Empathy = experiencing what other people feel
_______ = having intuition about what other people feel
We need a separate word for ______.
People on the autism spectrum sometimes lack ______. If you lack ______ it’s impossible to have empathy because you aren’t aware of what other people feel. This doesn’t mean you don’t care what other people feel (lack sympathy) or that you intend for others not to feel well.
Psychopaths have ______ but not empathy. They feel good when they cause other people to suffer. If they had empathy they would experience what their victims were going through and it wouldn’t be pleasant for them.
If you want to call _______ empathy you can but it's confusing. The official definition seems to falsely lump my definition of empathy with ________. Experiencing and having intuition are not the same thing even though they often get put together in the silly NT language that is more based on cultural norms than reality. |
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MR
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 392
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Good thoughts, Marshall. |
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liloleme
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Age: 41
Posts: 413
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I was just talking about this with a friend the other day. I was actually confused as to what empathy was until just recently. I even would tell people in a job interview ( I worked in health care) that one of my strong points was that I was very empathetic LOL  . I wasnt lying I just thought that I was. In actuallity Im just very sympathetic. I dont relate to other peoples feelings but I do "feel" for others when they are hurt or sick. I also dont understand the big deal with the empathy thing. People get really upset when you tell them that you lack empathy. It doesnt mean you dont care. |
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