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stinkysmom
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: Inclusion or not? |
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| My 9-year-old son has mild Aspergers. I have the choice between putting him in a class of high-functioning autistic students or a "regular" classroom. He would receive services and accommodations in both settings, but the teachers and therapists in the autism unit would have more specialized training. There are many factors to consider, but I was wondering if any of you have general thoughts on the matter. |
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Tim_Tex
WP's Resident Simpsons and South Park Aficionado
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 20402
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to WP!
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When you need something, that's a responsibility, that only an adult...of my maturity...Bunnies!!!
~Meatwad, Aqua Teen Hunger Force |
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catlover02
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 144
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Hi and Welcome to WrongPlanet. I have Asperger's Syndrome and I was in mostly Special Ed. classes when I was in school and I didn't like that at all. Dawn |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 1948
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I enjoyed my accelerated courses when I was younger; small classes, quick pace, interesting. When the brakes were applied (in another district, in a general class setting) because I didn't show work on math questions, I became obstinate - it wasn't until they tested me and realized I was several grades ahead that they understood possibly why I would not do the work. It depends on the purpose and function of the HFA-oriented class, at least to me... if it allows for comfortable progressive education, allowing for strengths and weaknesses, and incorporation of social skills, then it sounds like it would be of benefit; if it's purpose is more to provide a refuge without direction... then no, I don't think it is a good idea to go in the targeted-class.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Why choose a lesser evil? Vote Cthulhu 2008! |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1149
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Inclusion or not? |
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| stinkysmom wrote: | | My 9-year-old son has mild Aspergers. I have the choice between putting him in a class of high-functioning autistic students or a "regular" classroom. He would receive services and accommodations in both settings, but the teachers and therapists in the autism unit would have more specialized training. There are many factors to consider, but I was wondering if any of you have general thoughts on the matter. |
Please put him in the special class. It is the best thing you could do for him. I think it would be easier for him to learn to get along with people this way.
Whatever you decide go out of your way to make sure he does not get bullied and is included as much as possible, has friends he can trust, gets along with the teachers.
In my case, the teachers in the general classes resented me because they claimed they didn't have the time to work with me and parents of the other kids were all getting together and complaining about me getting any extra time at the expense of their kids when I didn't "belong" in the class anyway.
The one most effected by all their nonsense was me. I paid a heavy price for all their stupid drama. Please do not put your child through that. He doesn't deserve their drama.
Kids are so sensitive and autistic kids can detect everything and absorb it. Hostile environments are destructive and harmful to them. |
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Nitz
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 99
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure I entirely agree that a special ed setting is the best option. Unfortunately, many such settings are significantly less challenging academically. I personally derived a lot of self-esteem from doing well at certain academic subjects. Unless there are specific learning disabilities, or the school truly is on par academically, I would question the necessity of moving a capable, intelligent child to a school which may well lag two or three grade levels behind, and/or focus too much on "life skills" rather than academics. Temple Grandin has said, and I believe, that the best shot for autistic people to have good employment later in life is for them to develop their skills and interests. I think too often special ed services focuses only on weaknesses, and not enough on strengths. I would see whether it's possible to work within the school system first. If that doesn't work out, then maybe a change is needed. How has your son dealt with school so far? If there are problems, can they reasonably be alleviated with services that the school system can provide?
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MissConstrue
Aquarius
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 11388
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim_Tex wrote: | | Welcome to WP! |
Is that all you can say? 
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Chibi_Neko
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 969
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I was kept in the regular classroom, but in the first grade I would have one class a day where I would be with a special-ed teacher.
Being placed in a class with other aspies and autisics may make your son more accepted, I am not sure. To this day I have bitter feelings toward my class, the only reason I went to the prom was to get my diploma, after our class everyone had to take public exams and got their diplomas after summer, so they do not have to go to thier prom.
After I graduated, I was 'good riddance'
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Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart. |
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lou1978
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 03, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: uk
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| it totally depends on the child, you know him better than us! i was in a mainsteam school with no support and did fine, my ex husband was in mainstream with no support and failed terribly, my eldest son is in mainstream with support, and my middle son is in a special school, we are all on the spectrum, so it really varies! |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 2749
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ask him. We hate suprises.
All Aspies are one of a kind.
That there are classes for high functioning autistics sounds great.
This is new and you should be telling us about it.
When I went to learn reading, writing and cyphering, in a one room school, I walked five miles through snow, uphill, both ways, even in the summer.
It was a while ago. Some things might have changed.
Inclusion does bring up which street gang to join, mainstream can be a lot like MTV.
I would lean toward the high functioning group, as a smaller group, if they will go for developing our natural skills, and not spending the rest of our lives trying to correct our bad hand writing.
As an adult the only hand writing I do is signing credit card reciepts, anything will do.
My interests have been the same since childhood, tech, and I have made a good living doing what others could not.
We do not do well becoming normal, you go with what you have, or lose everything.
A race horse does not last pulling a plow.
When I want to learn a subject, I can move years ahead, and do not care about other things. All subjects do run out, and when one is in order, nothing left to learn, I start on another. I never did fit with this six subjects at a constant pace, it is not how my mind works.
I am a lifetime learner, now 61, and still doing a subject at a time till it runs out.
Others may just want a diploma, we want an education, even if it is narrow and lopsided. It is the base for lifetime study.
We are not slow, we are on another path, and all roads lead to Rome.
The one place we can connect is with family. For some reason that social bond works, where strangers, are strange.
You are the best team mate he has, please stay loyal. You may not understand it, he may not understand it, but you are in it together, and if you abandon him, all trust in humans is gone.
I would like to know what therapists in the autism unit do.
I have heard for some it was a good deal, we do need what everyone just knows explained, then it does make sense.
Problem is, there are thousands of us that grew up long ago, and while we might hear of these wonders, we still need what everyone just knows explained to us.
What most kids of ten just figure out on their own, some here have said they were told at 32, some were never told.
We have social blindness. It can ge ovecome by teaching.
Please steal the lesson plan and come teach an underground class, we need to know that stuff. |
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stinkysmom
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! Thank you all so much for your responses. I guess I should have been more specific about the choices. The teacher who gave me the tour of the autism classes told me that most of the kids are on or above grade level in most subjects. The SLP does a social skills lesson in the morning, and the teacher incorporates that skill into the class for the rest of the day. Most of the kids go to a regular classroom for at least part of the day. I would think that that might be more difficult socially than being in the regular classroom for the entire day. But the teacher who gave me the tour said that the Aspies (she didn't use that word) are paired up with buddies in the regular classes. She also said that she talks to the buddies about the types of things they can do to help their Aspies AND the types of special things that Aspies can have to offer.
On the other hand, I like the idea of both of my kids being able to ride their bikes to the school down the street with all of the neighbors. I'm not sure my son needs to be in a special class. Is there any research showing that kids with Aspergers learn better social skills while in a class with other kids who have Aspergers? Most of the kids in the class that I observed seemed a little less connected than my son. Is that likely to be helpful to him? He has been in a regular classroom at a charter school and has been doing okay with some modifications. Their were some difficulties, but honestly, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most of the teachers were new and still doing a lot of trial and error. Not good! His main difficulties are that he has trouble getting his thoughts down on paper, he is an organizational nightmare, and he has difficulty making and keeping friends. He wants the other kids to like him, but they annoy him and he annoys them. No major conflicts, just a mutual irritation.
Any more thoughts on the subject? |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 1948
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the additional information; it does help to provide more specific advice.
First, I think it is most important to talk to your son. While I do not feel it can be purely his decision, his desires need to be taken heavily into account... as a willing participant, he is more likely to succeed in either path you both choose.
It is encouraging that the students are allowed to progress as their capabilities allow in each subject. One of the greatest tools in overcoming difficulties is finding one's strengths... at least in my opinion. I also like that there is some integration; is your son specifically agitated by changes in setting/location? This may be a point of concern if so, but otherwise it sounds like a reasonable attempt to provide integration resources as well as educating their peers - and there is little substitute for information when delivered appropriately and without sensationalism. I think we, as adults, spawn more panic in children by our own nervous impulses and over-reacting. Again, a personal opinion... but one formed from teaching music from older kids; the less reaction we allow to dictate our actions and exhibit calm, the less severe the reaction of our students when crises might strike. It might be more socially difficult... it will depend on your child, to be honest. I can't begin to answer that question. I think that, if it is not a specific point of aggravation, may be more practical and allow respite from the intensity, despite the transition. Again - it all depends on individual triggers from my point of view.
Does he need a special class? Not absolutely, but having gone from a specialized gifted environment to a general population, it was definitely more of a challenge in the "mainstreamed" classes than it was in the alternative advanced programs I personally experienced. Is riding his bike to school important to him? That is more relevant to me than your own ideals there; I will apologize in advance if that comes across as offensive... I just think that where he can structure his environment, there should be an attempt to accommodate those needs where reasonable. If the HFA class is quieter, it may allow him to focus on his work more than in a typical classroom. (And based on your last comments, perhaps minimizing the 'irritation' time could be beneficial as well.)
There will be new teachers everywhere; all of them will have had different training and theories provided depending on where they studied and which methods appealed to them, or worked best previously. Just a practical matter to point out... as well as each individual on the spectrum has their own specific challenges - a universal adapter approach isn't the most effective option, in my opinion.
Based solely on what you've said, I think the HFA-based approach is worth considering. Both merit further investigation, discussion with your son, and further examination of what is most important for his success and comfort. It sounds like you are doing your homework, and appreciate the opportunity to provide input. It's just advice; take what works for you.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Why choose a lesser evil? Vote Cthulhu 2008! |
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cas
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 15, 2008
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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stinkysmom, I think it isn't so much that he'd be learning skills better in a class with other autistic kids but that only those classes usually teach skills explicitly. If he's learning them other places maybe he doesn't need to learn them at school.
I had a different experience in school and was different kind of kid also because I didn't pay much attention to recognizing classmates and he seems to be trying that. But I found it easier to get along with my classmates and I made some friends in my normal class when I wasn't in the same class all day because I was taken out for a part-time extra class. I don't know why really but I never had as much success with friends when I was in their same class all day even if I didn't think they were annoying. It was hard sometimes (it still is although I'm not in school) to have a balance between not ignoring someone but also not getting in the way when they were trying to pay attention to school and not getting distracted when I was trying to pay attention to school, so maybe part of it was there was less time to make mistakes when I wasn't in the same place with them all day. But this might not be a problem your son has.
You should ask him what he thinks even if he's still very young, six or eight is still old enough to have an opinion about this, and don't make a decision without explaining to him your reasoning. |
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