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_BRI_
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 157
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Tempy
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 340
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| That is a very odd point of view. o,O |
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IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 375
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| I disagreed that aspies don't form relationships because they don't need to. Some aspies do have that need, but lack the ability to inititiate and sustain a relationship. |
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ManErg
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 427
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting the link, I found it very interesting. 
Not sure exactly what research has been conducted into the differences (if any?) in hormone processes between AS and NT, it's a promising area to be looking into. I keep reading about Dopamine (and Serotonin) being important for various aspects of behaviour and feelings and I think there really is something different about the way my brain is processing Dopamine. Purely from personal experience, though.
I also liked the site's guide to "Surviving". Mainly because it concurs with my current opinion that although we can strive to communicate with and be like NT's, ultimately we will always get caught out. We need to strive to find a niche that is truly ours.
Here's a quote from the site that I liked and better describes my viewpoint, too:
Do things that make you happy. NT's generally do what they want to most of the time, because it makes them happy. When they see you unhappy they will encourage you to do the things they do that make them happy. But the things that Aspies enjoy can be the exact opposite of what the NT person enjoys.........Aspies are out of their comfort zone most of the time. It is important to get into your comfort zone some of the time and do what you want to do.
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The shoddier the merchandise -- the more it needs promoting |
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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6290
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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The following comment is absolutely bogus:
"It is hard to get exact figures, but from what I can glean at least 80% of Aspergers persons never get married or have a long-term relationship."
How can she come up with a percentage without getting exact figures? I have a feeling at least 80% of aspies do get married or have a long term relationship. |
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rdos
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 726
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| alex wrote: | The following comment is absolutely bogus:
"It is hard to get exact figures, but from what I can glean at least 80% of Aspergers persons never get married or have a long-term relationship."
How can she come up with a percentage without getting exact figures? I have a feeling at least 80% of aspies do get married or have a long term relationship. |
Completely bogus.
I am doing genealogy research, and I don't see 80% of my ancestry not getting married in the past. I do see some (mostly girls, in fact) in every generation that seems not to get any children. OTOH, I suspect this was balanced by some others that got a huge number of children, and the survival rates of children does not seem to be overly poor.
Another point of course is that the more differential in reproductive success between Aspie and NT ancestral lines (to a NT advantage), the higher the Aspie rate must have been in the past. Using data for the last 50 years I can see a 1% decline per year in autistic traits since the 1950s, but how long back into the past this trend extends is not a given.
Last edited by rdos on Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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n4mwd
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 659
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I am obsessed with AS and I agree with virtually every word in that article. It was awesome and I saved it.
I mean, how many of us constantly get asked by family "Have you got a gf yet?" "When are you going to get married?" Then strangers or co-workers ask, "How many kids do you have?"
Because of the constant ridicule, aspies feel a lot of pressure to get a gf or wife even though that is not what they are designed to do. That 20% that is successful ends up with a 50% or higher divorce rate.
I have had many conversations with NT wives of aspies and they all have reported to me that they are not happy in the relationship. Some get divorced and some refuse because they took marriage vows. One told me she plans on getting divorced after the kids are grown. The lion's share of the wives I talked to tell me that the thing that bugs them the most is the lack of physical contact. So despite having 5 kids, they rarely have sex or even kiss.
So the bottom line is that if you are a male aspie, you should ask yourself if YOU really want a relationship with a woman because that's your nature or if you are just wanting it because of societal pressures. If YOU were suddenly in a married relationship, how would you handle that? |
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rdos
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 726
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| n4mwd wrote: | Because of the constant ridicule, aspies feel a lot of pressure to get a gf or wife even though that is not what they are designed to do. That 20% that is successful ends up with a 50% or higher divorce rate.
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That is bogus as I wrote above.
| n4mwd wrote: | I have had many conversations with NT wives of aspies and they all have reported to me that they are not happy in the relationship. Some get divorced and some refuse because they took marriage vows. One told me she plans on getting divorced after the kids are grown. The lion's share of the wives I talked to tell me that the thing that bugs them the most is the lack of physical contact. So despite having 5 kids, they rarely have sex or even kiss.
So the bottom line is that if you are a male aspie, you should ask yourself if YOU really want a relationship with a woman because that's your nature or if you are just wanting it because of societal pressures. If YOU were suddenly in a married relationship, how would you handle that? |
The bottom line is that I have a (non-NT) wife and three kids, and I am perfectly happy with that. I wouldn't want to have it any other way. |
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Danielismyname
but a turtle
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5672
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Another is on the path of realizing that we're nothing but Nazi created super-scientists.
Current studies will tell you that some with Asperger's marry, but the majority don't; of course, this is from the diagnosable population, which seems to account for 50% with such [according to Gillberg]. None with Kanner's marry, barring outliers. This latter group is most of the population with Kanner's as nearly all with such are diagnosed.
Last edited by Danielismyname on Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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n4mwd
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 08, 2008
Posts: 659
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| alex wrote: | The following comment is absolutely bogus:
"It is hard to get exact figures, but from what I can glean at least 80% of Aspergers persons never get married or have a long-term relationship."
How can she come up with a percentage without getting exact figures? I have a feeling at least 80% of aspies do get married or have a long term relationship. |
That statistic is very accurate and its not the first time its been reported here. Its not very popular, but its factual.
If you look through your own family's history, you are going to get a very inaccurate view of this statistic simply because 100% of your aspie ancestors were successful at mating. Also, cultures change with time. About 200 years ago in colonial times, a husband was supposed to beat his wife. Today, guys go to jail for that. As such, in older days, women were under a lot of pressure to marry even if they didn't want to. Even today, Religious groups such as Mormons believe that the only way that a woman can go to heaven is if she is married. As such, you don't find too many single Mormon women over 18.
Today, women have more freedom than they ever had and tend to be much more picky about the guys they marry. So while 50 years ago, women got married to whatever was left because they had to, today they don't. Aspies, especially ones that are average looking or worse, are not that desirable to NT women. Look at Bill Gates. How many billions of dollars did he have to have before a woman would look at him?
Any aspie male who honestly believes that he has an 80% of eventually getting married is setting himself up for major depression if they are unsuccessful with that obsession. Even if they are successful, I'm told that a divorce makes it that much more depressing. |
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rdos
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Age: 47
Posts: 726
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| n4mwd wrote: | That statistic is very accurate and its not the first time its been reported here. Its not very popular, but its factual.
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No, the statistics are not factual. They build on a skewed population that have massive needs for support, because the other part will not participate in the research. The labels today are also handed out to people that fails to maintain a job, while the ones that don't are not eligable for diagnosis or participating in research no matter how autistic they are.
| n4mwd wrote: | If you look through your own family's history, you are going to get a very inaccurate view of this statistic simply because 100% of your aspie ancestors were successful at mating.
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You missed the point. I looked at siblings in my ancestry. Some of these did not reproduce, even if they lived long enough to do so, but their numbers are far from the claimed 80%.
| n4mwd wrote: | Also, cultures change with time.
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That is exactly the point. The label is a "cultural label" and not an inherit deficeit.
| n4mwd wrote: | About 200 years ago in colonial times, a husband was supposed to beat his wife. Today, guys go to jail for that. As such, in older days, women were under a lot of pressure to marry even if they didn't want to. Even today, Religious groups such as Mormons believe that the only way that a woman can go to heaven is if she is married. As such, you don't find too many single Mormon women over 18.
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Despite of this, I have several examples of women in my ancestry during the 17th century that had the opportunity to marry and get children, but decided not to for some reason.
| n4mwd wrote: | Today, women have more freedom than they ever had and tend to be much more picky about the guys they marry.
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Of course, but this again boils down to Aspieness being a cultural construct and not something of real importance for survival. Also, even today, Aspies can choose to marry their own kind and this is even easier with the online communities we have.
| n4mwd wrote: | | Any aspie male who honestly believes that he has an 80% of eventually getting married is setting himself up for major depression if they are unsuccessful with that obsession. Even if they are successful, I'm told that a divorce makes it that much more depressing. |
I don't have the complete picture for my ancestry here yet, but AFAIK, only two cousines seems not to get married on my mothers side, one guy and one girl. That would probably not be anywere near 80%. |
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Pobodys_Nerfect
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I think I can act NT for long enough to reach marriage and pass on my code, but after that I'll relax and see how long she hangs around.  |
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Anniemaniac
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| IpsoRandomo wrote: | | I disagreed that aspies don't form relationships because they don't need to. Some aspies do have that need, but lack the ability to inititiate and sustain a relationship. |
Agreed. I certainly have the need and desire for relationships, I just don't have the ability to form a relationship.
Having said that, the article was pretty interesting, although slightly depressing, for some reason. |
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iceb
Tarkalean hawk
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: The Liberator flight deck
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Lies, Damn lies and statistics!
I did find th article very interesting and makes sense.
80% 50% whatever most will agree an aspie is far less likely to be marred in most western societies.
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Wisdom must be gathered, it cannot be given.
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Aspies need relationships with people who do not expect us to be "perfect".
Isn't that why we are here? To become more accepting?
On to the article...
Sounds like it was written by an Aspie. I think whomever wrote it was trying to make sense of relationships and why some need them, while others are blissfully oblivious. The ones who don't need them and are unaware of it being an "issue" are the luckiest.
Being unaware gives them more free time to achieve because they are not always worrying about not having a relationship and find a quiet contentment in exploring a creative interest or studying.
I don't think there is anything wrong with this but in our society anything that does not conform to a rigid "norm" is considered "wrong" and therefore presents a "problem".
Is there really a "problem" or is it more brainwashing so that no one finds true happiness and acceptance of themselves and who they are?
My theory is non acceptance creates this void that can be filled by things like "shopping" and "drugs/booze" thus creating a "demand" in the market.
Be happy with who you are whomever you are. There is nothing "wrong" with you.
That is unless you are an NT!
Okay, that was me trying to be funny. |
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