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FireFox
Snowy Owl
Joined: Feb 18, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 157
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Questions atheists ask about God. |
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Can God destroy himself?
Can God create a rock that he cannot lift?
Can God create a being equal in power to himself? |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4629
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| i don't ask those questions...but mainly because i'm skeptical of an existence of a deity first...asking if a deity can do something is about on the same level of asking if superman could ever punch himself out or does his power level along with his impervious nature to damage keep him from being able to harm himself. there's no real proof of either existing except for extensive writing...and superman has a much more fleshed out story and biography than "god". |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | i don't ask those questions...but mainly because i'm skeptical of an existence of a deity first...asking if a deity can do something is about on the same level of asking if superman could ever punch himself out or does his power level along with his impervious nature to damage keep him from being able to harm himself. there's no real proof of either existing except for extensive writing...and superman has a much more fleshed out story and biography than "god". |
Explain as I am not understanding what you mean here. I am interpreting that you mean that does not have enough writing as in God writing things for Himself, or that there is not much writing in general about God (as in scriptures).
Other?
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4629
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | i don't ask those questions...but mainly because i'm skeptical of an existence of a deity first...asking if a deity can do something is about on the same level of asking if superman could ever punch himself out or does his power level along with his impervious nature to damage keep him from being able to harm himself. there's no real proof of either existing except for extensive writing...and superman has a much more fleshed out story and biography than "god". |
Explain as I am not understanding what you mean here. I am interpreting that you mean that does not have enough writing as in God writing things for Himself, or that there is not much writing in general about God (as in scriptures).
Other? |
i mean info in general. "god" is a mystery that one isn't supposed to question why there's mystery. i'm merely stating that superman has much more of a fleshed out story, biography, and depth of character.
there seems to be two basic "god" demeanors given: vengeful intolerant god and loving all-forgiving god...at least within most monotheistic realms. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| skafather84 wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | skafather84 wrote: | | i don't ask those questions...but mainly because i'm skeptical of an existence of a deity first...asking if a deity can do something is about on the same level of asking if superman could ever punch himself out or does his power level along with his impervious nature to damage keep him from being able to harm himself. there's no real proof of either existing except for extensive writing...and superman has a much more fleshed out story and biography than "god". |
Explain as I am not understanding what you mean here. I am interpreting that you mean that does not have enough writing as in God writing things for Himself, or that there is not much writing in general about God (as in scriptures).
Other? |
i mean info in general. "god" is a mystery that one isn't supposed to question why there's mystery. i'm merely stating that superman has much more of a fleshed out story, biography, and depth of character.
there seems to be two basic "god" demeanors given: vengeful intolerant god and loving all-forgiving god...at least within most monotheistic realms. |
Srimad Bhagavatam, otherwise known as the Bhagavat Purana. The closest thing to a religion's biography on God. I must warn you, it is a rather large book. If this doesn't satisfy you, there are larger Puranas and Itihas for you to read.
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Questions atheists ask about God. |
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| FireFox wrote: | | Can God destroy himself? |
It depends on what powers one attributes to god. If he is omnipotent, yes; if he is eternal, no. Logically he can't be both at once.
| Quote: | | Can God create a rock that he cannot lift? |
Yes, but only by destroying his own omnipotence. First, he has to set an a permanent limit on himself on how much he can lift; then he has to create a rock heavier then that limit.
| Quote: | | Can God create a being equal in power to himself? |
Yes, there is no real contradiction to this, though it risks destroying his own omnipotence. If the other omnipotent being declare that the original is no longer omnipotent, then logically the original would no longer be omnipotent.
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I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. |
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 1874
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think about god at all because I don't believe in him, it, her what ever it is.
I have wondered if god does exist though, life itself doesn't really make any logical sense, it can't really be explained by any science, saying god created everything is a bit to simplistic.
If god does exist, why doesn't god show himself? I don't like the idea that you have to have blind faith in god. |
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FireFox
Snowy Owl
Joined: Feb 18, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Questions atheists ask about God. |
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[quote="Speckles"][quote="FireFox"]
| Quote: | | Can God create a rock that he cannot lift? |
Yes, but only by destroying his own omnipotence. First, he has to set an a permanent limit on himself on how much he can lift; then he has to create a rock heavier then that limit.[\quote]
The question then becomes: Can God create a rock that he can't lift without destroying his omnipotence? If not, then is he really omnipotent? To say he has to destroy his omnipotence to do that already leaves him with something he can't do, doesn't it? |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 4629
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MR_BOGAN wrote: | | If god does exist, why doesn't god show himself? |
asking such a question opens up the whole everyone citing their favorite religious text as "proof" of god showing himself. |
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MysteryFan3
Ex-COBOL dinosaur. roar.
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 1358
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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The real question for me is: Why would God do any of that?
Every system of philosophy has questions it cannot answer, even though the questions fit into the framework of the system. It doesn't mean the philosophy is BS, it just means there's always something to play with.
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To eliminate poverty, you have to eliminate at least three things: time, the bell curve and the Pauli Exclusion Principle. Have fun. |
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twoshots
A sun that never sets
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 1770
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can God create a rock that he cannot lift? |
1) An omnipotent being is one who is capable of doing anything which is logically possible.
2) Suppose omnipotent being (God) created a rock it could not move; the being is then not omnipotent because there is something we can imagine it doing (and hence logically possible) and it cannot do.
3) Suppose God could not create a rock it could not move; then the being is not omnipotent because there is something it can't do.
4) Hence, there is no consistent way of formulating the answer to God creating a rock which he cannot move (duh)
5) Therefore, God creating a rock which it cannot move can only be conceived of as a logical impossibility, because this is the only way of negating (2) and rectifying (3) with (1), i.e. the question is moot because it is inherently illogical; that is, our idea of an omnipotent being (being a priori) is dictated by what we can conceive this being doing, and hence this leads to a natural resolution a priori based on the principle that it does not make sense to say certain things, we cannot say what it would be like for God to be otherwise.
6) Conclusion: mu
That is, the apparent paradox of this is based upon a hypothetical which is actually a trick of language. In reality, this is nonsense.
Likewise for the rest of these.
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'Crews were hopeful the 20m cubic litres of water could be held back and not breach the dam wall'.
And that'll be a struggle, since hyperdimensional water could breach the dam in almost any one of the five other dimensions you haven't noticed yet. |
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Averick
Anarchic Aberrational Anathema
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1980
Location: Sorry, I'm no Jedi.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| God, why does my butt itch like something fierce? |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Questions atheists ask about God. |
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[quote="FireFox"][quote="Speckles"] | FireFox wrote: |
| Quote: | | Can God create a rock that he cannot lift? |
Yes, but only by destroying his own omnipotence. First, he has to set an a permanent limit on himself on how much he can lift; then he has to create a rock heavier then that limit.[\quote]
The question then becomes: Can God create a rock that he can't lift without destroying his omnipotence? If not, then is he really omnipotent? To say he has to destroy his omnipotence to do that already leaves him with something he can't do, doesn't it? |
Maybe, but the fact remains that an omnipotent being can logically create a rock so heavy he himself could not lift it, which was the original question. I felt enormously proud of myself when I worked that out 
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I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. |
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slowmutant
FAITH HOPE LOVE
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6581
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| MR_BOGAN wrote: | I don't think about god at all because I don't believe in him, it, her what
If god does exist, why doesn't god show himself? I don't like the idea that you have to have blind faith in god. |
I would not advocate blind faith. Faith should be informed. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| twoshots wrote: |
1) An omnipotent being is one who is capable of doing anything which is logically possible.
2) Suppose omnipotent being (God) created a rock it could not move; the being is then not omnipotent because there is something we can imagine it doing (and hence logically possible) and it cannot do.
3) Suppose God could not create a rock it could not move; then the being is not omnipotent because there is something it can't do.
4) Hence, there is no consistent way of formulating the answer to God creating a rock which he cannot move (duh)
5) Therefore, God creating a rock which it cannot move can only be conceived of as a logical impossibility, because this is the only way of negating (2) and rectifying (3) with (1), i.e. the question is moot because it is inherently illogical; that is, our idea of an omnipotent being (being a priori) is dictated by what we can conceive this being doing, and hence this leads to a natural resolution a priori based on the principle that it does not make sense to say certain things, we cannot say what it would be like for God to be otherwise.
6) Conclusion: mu
That is, the apparent paradox of this is based upon a hypothetical which is actually a trick of language. In reality, this is nonsense.
Likewise for the rest of these. |
God can lift a mountain that remains stationary.
The questions are as illogical as the answers. I can (somewhat) clearly explain the above statement. However, people prefer to see things one way.
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