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| Do you think America is a "Nation of Whiners" |
| yes |
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60% |
[ 25 ] |
| no |
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39% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 41 |
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| Author |
Message |
barcncpt44
Blue Jay
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 82
Location: Anniston, Alabama
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Americans a "nation of Whiners" |
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From cnn.
Phil Gramm, a top adviser to Sen. John McCain, on Thursday stood by his comment that the country is in a "mental recession," and said he was trying to say the nation's leaders, not its people, were "whiners."
Democrats blasted Gramm, who advises presumed Republican nominee McCain on economic matters, for saying Americans who have named the economy as a top concern this campaign cycle were "a nation of whiners."
McCain forcefully repudiated the remarks while campaigning in Michigan, which has the highest unemployment rate in the nation.
The comments came in a Washington Times interview published Thursday.
Us Americans know what is going on and having one of Mccain's Advisers call americans a "nation of whiners" will hurt Mccain. They said this while in Michigan; I have been and lived in Michigan and it is suffering badly. This will hurt Mccain in the long run and I suggest he fires Phil Gramm.
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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It can easily be explained, he clearly meant "We have sort of become a nation of WINNERS".
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Everchanging
Toucan
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 286
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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To see a true "Nation of whiners" you have to see the UK.
The US isn't even close.
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monty
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 2286
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Everybody whines when things are bad. The problem with his comment is not that it is false - it simply creates the impression that Gramm is out of touch with the economic hardship that many people are facing. When gas goes from $2 to $4 a gallon, people are going to whine - because their budgets get stretched, and they have to cut somewhere else. When factories shut down and people lose their jobs, people are going to whine. Something would be wrong if they didn't. |
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penny07960
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 154
Location: US - right coast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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I voted YES.
I agree that there is real economic pain in some areas, and that things will be getting worse before they get better. I feel sorry for those that are sincerely trying and not managing to get by.
However, I also believe we spend far too much time complaining and looking for government solutions (and then bitching about how high our taxes are!). Many of us (me included) should learn to live within our means; drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars, buy smaller homes that are cheaper to heat, and eat a whole lot less food. We would be healthier, our environment would be better, and the US might not have a junkie's addition to foreign oil.
We also need a safety net to protect those who genuinely can’t work to support themselves. But it should not be the default state for generation after generation of welfare families.
I do enjoy seeing these political sleazes now backtracking: "oh, what I meant was..." Liar!! |
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Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 2401
Location: Pantopia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Mr. Gramm.
I used to deal daily with people who...
... winged on about how they're always being blamed for their own incompetance and ignorance, and then claimed every time that it is actually someone or something else's fault.
... claimed victimhood over this least adverse events in their lives, such as the woman in the cubical farm who couldn't stop muttering about how she could never get the same parking space two days in a row.
... felt entitled to more than what they were willing to earn, even though they were fully capable of earning more if they would just put forth the extra effort.
... put every demand in terms of being the target of racism, sexism, religious persecution, or some other form of bigotry when a simple request that includes the word "please" would have worked just as well or better.
... wore their abused childhoods like a crown of thorns, blaming every man in the world for what their fathers did, and blaming every woman in the world for what their mothers didn't do.
... regularly filied discrimination and harassment suits for having the same pay and benefits of everyone else who worked under the same pay grade, job description, and seniority status, all the while declaring that they deserve to be treated just like everyone else.
... whined because you won't say "Good Morning" to them, and then complained because you go out of your way and make it a point to say "Good Morning" to them every day.
... played a game called, "I've had it worse", wherein each participant must relate a story of how much worse their lives were/are/will be than any of the other participants' lives.
... demanded a share in the wealth of others, especially corporations, when they themselves were capable only of repetitive drone-work and provided little in the way of innovation and invention that would advance the financial condition of the people and corpoations they worked for.
And then when I moved out of Michigan, and away from the UAW...
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b. Faith is irrational belief in improvable concepts.
:: Science buries Faith. |
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abram
Blue Jay
Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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i voted no.
i don't live in USA but as much as i've had experience with americans then, they're usually all very serious and sincere people who laugh and talk very loudly and usually try to be very considerate to others, however, because they tend to be very innocently naive, then they might get taken advantage of or get jokes made on them, usually not mean, though. i've got quite a lot of experience with americans, because my relatives are americans, too.
has anyone read Gerald Durrell's books? in one of them, he described a couple of american artists, who went to Cofru to visit them and what happened etc. well, many peoples opinion is pretty similar to this, described in the book. 
i think that if you live in a country, it's easyer to notice the negative points of any nation and when people(like me ) just visit for a month or so, then they notice more the positive parts. i've so far liked most americans i've met and talked with, etc, and i haven't noticed much more whining than anywhere else i've been to. |
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Cyberman
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 905
Location: Telos
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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"Let them eat cake."
It's easy for someone who is well-off to call other people "whiners." |
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Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 2401
Location: Pantopia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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It's easy for people who are less well-off to whine.
By contrast, I submit my own story: Conceived before my parents were married. Unwanted, resented, even hated by my alcoholic father. Exhibited symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome a full 30 years before it was officially recognized as a real condition. Beaten and humiliated by my father, siblings, and neighborhood kids. Endured an undiagnosed heart defect and chronic bronchitis until passing out in freshman gym class. Earned my own way through college without the support of my family. Married, and then was divorced by an unfaithful drug-addicted woman. Was laid-off and became homeless. Enlisted in the Navy by concealing my infirmities. Served 6 years overseas and at sea with hundreds of other misfits of society. Married a second time. Tried to fit back in to the civilian world. And had a heart attack 18 months ago.
But guess what?
I survived, overcame, and succeeded in spite of every adversity!
It isn't as if I were some idle rich remittance man drifting through life; I had it rough, and worked my way up and out of abuse, poverty, homelessness, and voluntary military service in war zones (Desert Storm and Restore Hope). What did I learn?
I learned that most of our limitations are self-imposed, and that the Eagles were right when they sang "So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key." I learned that if you are able to work, no job is too far beneath your dignity. I learned that if you need help, then it is up to you to get that help, and if you need help getting helped, then ask! And that it never hurts to say "please".
I learned not only that whatever is worth doing is worth doing well, but that whatever is worth doing well is worth getting paid well to do. I learned also that people are paid only what they are worth to their employer, and no more. I learned that there is always another job, even if you don't like doing it. I learned that a paycheck well earned is worth far more than the sincere fellowship of any of the bums on Skid Row.
I learned that while everyone has the right to Free Speech, no-one has the right to express an opinion based on ignorance and/or lack of experience. I learned that hypothetics and "Strawman" arguments are worthless.
I learned that no man of greatness ever needs to apologize, make excuses, explain his reasons, or beg - but that these are the last resorts of men who have failed in life. I learned that such failures are often on Welfare, live in blighted urban areas, have criminal records, and blame everyone except themselves for their state in life.
And finally, I learned when to end a rant.
_________________
a. Science is the vast graveyard into which all irrational beliefs are eventually laid to rest.
b. Faith is irrational belief in improvable concepts.
:: Science buries Faith.
Last edited by Fnord on Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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t0
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I voted yes.
I think there are a lot of younger people in this country that have a sense of entitlement to whatever they want without having to work for it. And then there are the older people that want to government to deficit spend for them - not caring that their children/grandchildren will eventually have to pay back this money plus interest on their behalf.
While I don't wish financial hardship for anyone, I believe an economic crash might end these behaviors and could bring a more realistic economic view for everyone.
| Quote: | | It's easy for someone who is well-off to call other people "whiners." |
Perhaps - but it's all in your frame of reference. I think there are very few Americans that experience the poverty of a third-world country. |
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Cyberman
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 905
Location: Telos
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| t0 wrote: | | Quote: | | It's easy for someone who is well-off to call other people "whiners." |
Perhaps - but it's all in your frame of reference. I think there are very few Americans that experience the poverty of a third-world country. |
Not as few as you think. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6922
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Fnord wrote: | | It's easy for people who are less well-off to whine. |
Is it really possible to quantify human suffering? I don't believe that it is.
If you don't like whiners, be careful not to become one yourself. |
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AGMorehouse
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 01, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 200
Location: Wouldn't you like to know you stalker
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I voted "Yes" on this issue. Even though I have grown to be disappointed by the Bush Administration and the former GOP-controlled Congress on the issues that face this country over the past couple of years, the nation is whining because of the choices they made. People bought houses and took out loans that they know they shouldn't have, and now they want the government to bail them out- no way, jose. People are also whining because of gas prices. Hello- we need MORE refineries. The more of our own oil we have, the lower the gas prices. Taxing oil companies to death will NOT solve the problem.
But that is just my opinion.
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Though there's no one there to guide you
No one to take your hand
But with faith and understanding
you will jouney from boy to man |
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Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 2401
Location: Pantopia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | Is it really possible to quantify human suffering? I don't believe that it is.
If you don't like whiners, be careful not to become one yourself. |
It isn't even possible to objectively quantify the level of human pain, much less how much people suffer from it.
(Yes, pain and suffering are two different things. I know pain, but I don't suffer from it.)
I am one who overcomes, so I have no need or desire to whine. Whiners never overcome.
Now, I may be something of an arrogant braggart, but that's another matter entirely... 
_________________
a. Science is the vast graveyard into which all irrational beliefs are eventually laid to rest.
b. Faith is irrational belief in improvable concepts.
:: Science buries Faith. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6922
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Suffering builds character, does it not?
I would not be the man I am today had I not suffered the way I have. |
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